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He doesn't want to get fired

Speaking of firing, any bets on North Korea getting back to their missile tests over the weekend? Seems like a good time to do it with the whole world focused on Trump
 
Irvine511 said:
misogyny is tolerated more than racism.

although i'm sure people would rush to his defense. i mean, Beyonce sometimes uses that word. and we've seen a Republican party willing to tolerate Nazis in order to pass tax cuts for the wealthy. so, dunno.
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Don't you think those statements he made to Billy Bush were more than casual misogyny, though? I would have hoped that even the "make me a sandwich" type of misogynist would have found what he said there to be too much.
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
And he's next in line if Trump resigns or is impeached or they use that 25th Amendment thing somehow.

Faaaaaaaantastic :|.
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That's always been the kick in the balls. With Trump, you get unchecked id with crazy ego in a shitball of raciststupidhomophobicsexism

With Pence, you get all that, plus Jebus, in a more controlled format.

Either way, we lose. But with Pence, it isn't as visceral.
 
Wide Awake n AZ said:
That's always been the kick in the balls. With Trump, you get unchecked id with crazy ego in a shitball of raciststupidhomophobicsexism

With Pence, you get all that, plus Jebus, in a more controlled format.

Either way, we lose. But with Pence, it isn't as visceral.
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Either way the country loses, but the GOP is completely weakened and they won't get much done. And I don't think Pence is electable on his own.
 
iron yuppie said:
Don't you think those statements he made to Billy Bush were more than casual misogyny, though? I would have hoped that even the "make me a sandwich" type of misogynist would have found what he said there to be too much.
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Don't you think his comments to Billy Bush are what most "make me a sandwich" misogynists say in privacy?
 
U2girl said:
Or came out with militia...I guess they didn't plan to stir things up right ?

No one is denying both sides were violent. But only one side commited murder, and is consistently on the wrong side of history, and stands for some of the most vile ideas.
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Sorry that's an over reach.
A person who lives there and marched said much of the crowd was joyously enthusiastic to be together to oppose the WS & Nazis. To disregard overhyping by some media that there was an equal amount of violence coming from each side. WAAZ made points on some could been spur of the moment from the anti protestors, while way more of the protestors were itching for a fight.
U2girl said:
I wonder why they feel that way ?

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I've seen plenty of news stories and occasional vids of the rise of neo-nazism in Europe over the past ?20 or so years so I wouldn't be so "superior" about this.

It IS of course horrifying to see such blatant displays of this here in the USA but some of us have known it was often below the radar.

Irvine511 said:
misogyny is tolerated more than racism.
.
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Yup. :|

One of the public radio reporters who went to talk to some of these people said of course the racism, and antisemitism were excoriating, the misogamy was nearly off the charts.

LN7 :wave: so u won't feel left out. :wink:
 
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Wide Awake n AZ said:
and here is where some of my American comes out, and will maybe cause some to get the wrong impression, but fuck it...

This is a world problem. It is a western problem that is growing. I see the occasional European or Australian talking shit about "dumbass America electing a racist" and how we are a racist nation, etc, etc.


While I am right with the general line of thought that our current president is a racist being advised by White Nationalists and has created an opportunity for the cockroaches to come out of the dark, I find some of the arrogance from our European friends to be eye-rolling. Try to hold a football match without bananas being thrown at black players, or creating a world where there is no need for the international body overseeing the world's largest sport to directly address racism in fan bases, occasionally resorting to emptying stadiums for games. Tend to your own Brexit issues, or the issues that allowed a straight racist fascist to be within an eyelash of power in France. Keep an eye on the eastern part of the continent as it descends into ethnic slaughter. Check some island continent's existing anti-Muslim laws.

I am not saying "hey...no big deal...we all suck, so why try?" I am saying save us the side eye and the "tut tuts" while you battle old social caste systems that eliminate even basic mobility, where you determine an entire soul based on their accent.


Racism is a human problem. And we are having a particularly bad set of days here in the USA after getting lax and thinking we had progressed so far. The "alt-left"? Not sure what that is, but I think of the Bernie Bros (I voted for Bernie...in the primary) and the Stein people who decided to perform relativism gymnastics to make Hillary Clinton out to be the same as Donald Trump in order to allow their path to "voter integrity", which was just a front for falling for a cult of personality. So the majority in America, the one the GOP tries so hard to gerrymander into non-existence, the one the GOP employs voter-suppression tactics against to give their minority view, which splinters into another minority view of White Nationalism...we made it easy for them by splintering ourselves. Hillary = Donald. Bullfuckingshit. So we got lazy, fell asleep at the switch, and Donald Trump happened, and we are fighting his technicality-driven, less popular vote winning, Comey&Emails&Russia assisted ass in every way we can now. This racist bullshit is NOT a majority position in the US. Cameras are allowing a lot of white people to see what POC go through with police and in life every day. And there is enough of this plague that it was able to re-assert itself in open view in leadership when good people relaxed, felt comfortable, thought they could push for the most progressive option or nothing. Nope...Nothing isn't actual nothing. Nothing...Bernie or nothing = Bernie or Trump. Stein or bust = Stein or Trump. We fucked up.


But don't pretend to be a world of racial harmony looking at the USA petrie dish.
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i don't think anyone here is pretending to live in a world of racial harmony or playing the superiority card - what is happening in the US is terrifying for us all as it shows what a thin veneer democracy is anywhere really...

in Europe, we have lived thru this, my late neighbour was a young girl when our village was occupied by the Nazis - the house opposite mine was commandeered by the Nazis and used as their headquarters... when my kids were tiny, at the local school, they did a theatre project, based on real family memories - i went to see the school play, expecting a light-hearted teddy bear picnic type thing, but the opening line was "the school bell rang at 8 o'clock, then the German soldiers came in and shot our headmaster in front of us" - fucking heavy shit, a school play about real memories of their grandparents and great-grandparents memories of war and occupation... it's all still very real and raw here - this is why is was completely terrifying to see the FN get thru to the second round, although they never had a real chance of getting into power at that point, but still incredibly worrying nonetheless, and it was a wake-up call to heed the warning signs and prepare ahead for the next 5-years... there are neo-nazis here, but they are not emboldened and they are frowned on and hated, and they are restricted by law - here, we don't draw the line at "hate crime" but at "hate speech" and i am grateful for that, words are very powerful, we know that too well... we also know the power of symbols, which is why we have laws against displaying the swastika for example - sure, it doesn't solve the racist problem, but it feel like a safety measure, to nip things in the bud quickly before they get out of control... but god knows what would happen if an extremist got into power as i guess they could try to dismantle all our checks and balances and institutions...

re. Brexit, well Brexit is cut from the same cloth as Trump - the same underlying forces and manipulations at play, wanting to bring down the "system", claiming the dominos were going to fall and Europe was going to crumble... well, thankfully (for Europe) the domino fell the wrong way, and Britain is an isolated mess right now - it is truly a horrible situation... and again, it has emboldened the British extreme right - we had a domestic terrorist murder in the immediate run-up to Brexit - when Jo Cox was murdered - it has been horrendous to see these assholes emboldened like this in Britain and the US... so far from "side-eyeing" the US right now, it is a terrifying wake-up call to us all!
 
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So Trump's lawyer sent a mass email out to GOP stating they better get behind the President. That there is NO difference between General Lee and George Washington. That terrorists have infiltrated BLM...

What the fuck. He is tearing apart this country. Though I guess we need to confront the underlying issue of racism and those who still support the Confederacy....

Colbert played a clip of John Kasich stating on Good Morning America that there is no moral equivalency between KKK/Nazis and anyone else. When John was pressed by Matt Lauer if he would be the one to lead the GOP to deliver this message to the President, that this is unacceptable and we won't stand for it, John wimped out and said "Look, he is our President and we support him"

The GOP's lack of any spine, any morals is what will set us back for years. This all could end now if they wanted it to. Instead, they still are delusional that they can get their agenda done with Trump. Or maybe they are all racists and want this. Cause that makes more sense.
 
I don't think that he is actually capable of resigning, that would mean admission of some sort of guilt or in his mind, acceptance that he has NO guilt but somehow can't WIN/beat the system. He is incapable of either.

My best guess is that the GOP will lose a lot of seats in 2018. People are going to be just exhausted/tired of all this and turnout by the incumbent party voters is always depressed. I think he'll declare fairly early that he is NOT running for re-election, will use some sort of bullshit like "I was the change agent we needed and I did amazing things, the best things, but now my role has come to an end." That legs him leave with his dignity intact (in his view) and most importantly without having to suffer an electoral loss.
 
mama cass said:
i don't think anyone here is pretending to live in a world of racial harmony or playing the superiority card - what is happening in the US is terrifying for us all as it shows what a thin veneer democracy is anywhere really...
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This is a wake up call to this very small but growing web of keyboard warriors becoming radicalized by the violent White Nationalist/KKK/Nazi groups. That is the scary part here...the statue is a non-issue. It is in the courts, and all the protests in the world don't matter as it is not a matter of public vote/opinion. This Charlottesville rally was about bringing these loosely knit by ideology but very different groups together to create commonality. And they achieved that.

But the counter-protests (and yes, some of the hand to hand violence) also served to make some of the more keyboard warrior white upper class fucks who are disaffected and sad because mommy fucked a black guy or whatever shit their pants. The stakes were put in front of them...the actual punch throwing (a lot of those Milhouse/Poindexter motherfuckers didn't look like they had ever been in a fight...or played a rough sport for that matter) was one reality, and then the baby doxxing (not phone numbers/addresses) of a lot of them put even more "real" into their "White Pride Celebrity Weekend Party" trip.

So they got some networking. They also might have lost a few of the less...ummm....desperate/bold of their numbers when it was put to them what the cost of admission might be (a punch and a picture that keeps you from decent employment for life).

But they are not a massive force. Trump was elected by a lot of right leaning moderates who were put off by Hillary, maybe sexist, and had her emails to read and were pounded with "Benghazi...emails...Comey is going to indict" right before the election...mixed with some very large HRC campaign mistakes (skipping the Midwest). And still, more people voted for Hillary, and that wasn't close.

So if Trump is crazy enough ( he is) to listen to the Bannon/Duke rhetoric and believe this sliver of pathetic humanity elected him, and keeps placating them, the GOP will surrender this nation on a platter.

As long as we can avoid the Nader/Stein/Bernie or Bust bullshit that keeps getting us people like Bush and Trump. What is it about youth that makes one equivocate all problematic actions as equal? "Hillary is the same as Trump"/ No. No. Fuck no...not even close.

So in that respect, this moment right now...this 6 month to a year blip in history...is either the worst or the greatest moment in American history. It could go either way. But I think Trump is missing the real demographic point...that base he is playing to is tiny and shrinking.

As for the "you all have problems too" comment...that was borne from frustration from a comment here and a week on Twitter hearing people from nations with real problems talking about our horrible situation as if the US owned this problem and the rest of the world was post racial and in harmony. It just got to me...we gotta clean up our mess. But you do too. And we are closer than people think...remember the numbers in this nation. The Trump win was miraculous and aided in many ways, possibly also by Russia...the story going into that Tuesday was "Is the GOP dead?" Those problems still exist.
 
anitram said:
I don't think that he is actually capable of resigning, that would mean admission of some sort of guilt or in his mind, acceptance that he has NO guilt but somehow can't WIN/beat the system. He is incapable of either.

My best guess is that the GOP will lose a lot of seats in 2018. People are going to be just exhausted/tired of all this and turnout by the incumbent party voters is always depressed. I think he'll declare fairly early that he is NOT running for re-election, will use some sort of bullshit like "I was the change agent we needed and I did amazing things, the best things, but now my role has come to an end." That legs him leave with his dignity intact (in his view) and most importantly without having to suffer an electoral loss.
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I think there's one thing that was always the thing that would push him to drop out and/or resign - a legitimate threat to his money. That's why he has his lawyer talk bout finances being a red line. He can't possibly fire Muller and survive. Even the GOP will turn on him then. So his other recourse would be to cut a deal... resign, rat on some of the others in the campaign and let them take the fall... all in exchange for keeping his $$$ and staying out of prison.

Otherwise? Yea. He's going to prison. His entire empire is built around fraud and money laundering, and he knows it. The walls are caving in, and eventually he'll either have to try and make a deal that saves some face and some cash, otherwise he's done for.
 
Someone tell Trump how much money and fame he could get if he resigned and spent the rest of his days playing the martyr.
 
Knowing Trump, he could easily spin a resignation to make himself look good to his supporters, and make it seem like it was entirely his doing and his choice. He has an amazing ability to make any of his other failures a warped success story, after all.

I think you make a good point about the threat to his money, too, Headache.

BEAL said:
Colbert played a clip of John Kasich stating on Good Morning America that there is no moral equivalency between KKK/Nazis and anyone else. When John was pressed by Matt Lauer if he would be the one to lead the GOP to deliver this message to the President, that this is unacceptable and we won't stand for it, John wimped out and said "Look, he is our President and we support him"

The GOP's lack of any spine, any morals is what will set us back for years. This all could end now if they wanted it to. Instead, they still are delusional that they can get their agenda done with Trump. Or maybe they are all racists and want this. Cause that makes more sense.
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Yep, and this is precisely why I haven't supported the Republican Party, and why I will never do so. They had numerous chances during the birther crap and the campaign to call Trump out on his horrible comments and rhetoric, and they either didn't, or they gave the most mild of criticisms at that, and tried to brush it off like it was nothing and continued to support him. And they have a ridiculously backwards and outdated platform that screws so many people over, too, both socially and economically.

If and when logic and sanity return to that party someday, if they eventually change their ways and reject people like Trump, get over the social hangups, and come up with an economic plan that's reasonable, then I'll give them a look.

Until then, no. They're just too scary and outright cruel.
 
Charlottesville: (waits 3 days) *Both sides were bad.*

Barcelona: (5 minutes after) *tweet about a fake story about General Pershing shooting Muslims with bullets dipped in pig's blood*


(Twitter sure is educational these days.)
 
There is a Pershing - Muslim story that appears to be credible.


A Chicago Daily Tribune article from 1927 has a story where Pershing had prisoners from the Moro Rebellion in the Philippines. The Moros were Muslims who resisted American or any other occupying force.

The Moros had swordsmen, called Juramentados, who were killing Christians in this uprising. It had to be stopped. General Pershing was given this difficult task.

The Tribune article says Pershing sprinkled some prisoners with pig's blood, which the Juramentados believed would condemn them for eternity. But then Pershing let the prisoners go. He issued a warning to others about being sprinkled with the pig's blood. The Tribune article said "those drops of porcine gore proved more powerful than bullets."
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Not a tactic I would support
 
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i'm loath to agree with deep but it's definitely not (entirely) fake. the british caused a nationwide revolt in india in the 1850s and almost lost the entire british raj by insisting on using rifle cartridges greased with beef tallow and pig fat and simultaneously pissing off both the hindus and the muslims. this was back in the day when you had to bite the paper off the cartridge and stuff the whole lot down the muzzle of your rifle so even the loyal soldiers from the local populace who joined the british military were being forced to break a religious taboo every single day just doing their jobs. much to the shock and consternation of the british officers, even the most loyal sepoys weren't about to choose queen victoria over their gods.

not totally the same, but just relating this to point out that this sort of deliberate pissing on foreign religious taboos in order to subjugate native peoples was not uncommon back in the day. saying that it was responsible for stopping "radical islamic terror" (it was actually a resistance to a foreign imperialist invader, but who's counting when you have an agenda to push) though is completely out to fucking lunch. the wholesale genocidal slaughter of entire indigenous populations (by good ol' yankee doughboys, let's not forget) probably had a little more to do with it.

seriously, the philippine-american war is probably the most atrocious thing the united states military has ever done. that and the "strategic" firebombing of german and japanese cities are easily 1-2 on the list. there's a reason nobody in the united states ever talks about that war.
 
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Hey, thanks for the clarification! I had posted the same remark on Facebook - mind if I copy/paste your clarification there in my thread?
 
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DaveC said:
seriously, the philippine-american war is probably the most atrocious thing the united states military has ever done. that and the "strategic" firebombing of german and japanese cities are easily 1-2 on the list. there's a reason nobody in the united states ever talks about that war.
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those events* are terrible, but I think Black Americans and Native Americans would think there treatments should be at the top of the list.

I suppose on a 1 to 10 scale, we can put Hitler and the Final Solution at a 10.
Of course if you are in the affected group you feel it is a 10.

To rate some in the 8 point something to 9 point something would be callous.

The young woman that was killed in Charleston on Saturday is truly tragic, when I see a black American get shot in the back by a Police Officer, well those events are tragic and rate 10 to the victims families. The Barcelona Terrorists attack can be rated higher than the Charleston Terrorist attack by scale, but tragic,senseless loss of innocent human life both rate a 10.

getting back to American Government atrocities, I know there is a lot of blinding hatred for Trump by many. I have seen this before. I witnessed people with blinding hatred of Bill Clinton, there was blinding hatred of W, and also blinding hatred of Obama by their opponents. I have only had a blinding hatred of one President that was W. On your list of atrocities the Iraq War should be included. I watched that unfold in real time A fake War from the get go. And with all news organizations on board, CNN, NYT, etc. The beginning they were cheer-leading the "shock and awe" as tens of thousands of people in Baghdad and other cities were being blown apart and burned alive. Men, women and children.
 
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corianderstem said:
Hey, thanks for the clarification! I had posted the same remark on Facebook - mind if I copy/paste your clarification there in my thread?
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this was his tweet today

Study what General Pershing of the United States did to terrorists when caught. There was no more Radical Islamic Terror for 35 years!
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and if 15 of you want to pile on and attribute things to me I never said, feel free

I have always been against Nazis, White Supremacists, KKK and blame the left-leaning ACLU for defending their right to meet in public when both parties would not support them, As both parties reject and what they stand for now.
 
To inject US into world politics...my beloved college basketball team (University of Arizona) was playing on a summer tour in Spain, and today was an off day for them to do touristy things.

In Barcelona.


They are all OK, as is the travelling party of some 300. A few other college teams were also there (GCU, Clemson, Oregon State, etc). The similarities are overwhelming...car driven into crowd with the intent to kill and strike terror in the hearts and minds of people who think other than the driver.


Yet we see the difference in the reaction from the POTUS. He is long since abandoned trying to be sensical, to have a common thread to his actions other than "whatever is wrong to do".
 
deep said:
and blame the left-leaning ACLU for defending their right to meet in public when both parties would not support them.
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No social/legal justice group should EVER make their advocacy based upon whether that group would defend them.

The ACLU only defended their right to get the permit, etc. The 1st Amendment and all that. And at that point, we all know the 1st Amendment is not a free-for-all...if the authorities find the speech to cause harm or incite, they can shut it down and be well within the framework of the Amendment. And people can come to shout them down as well, and that adds to the concern over the speech being "inciting".

All of that is independent of the ACLU's job, which is simply to make sure the government does not hand out permits to speak based upon their own idea of what is OK and not OK. That is fundamental...a fundamental check against the government influencing the public forum. And is not something that should be attacked. There is a clear separation from that permit issuance, and the decision as to whether the speech is inciting. And that decision can be made when the speech not directly protected by the 1st Amendment begins.

And we have to have that. One of the few true "slippery slopes" in existence.
 
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