The Bigly 2016 US Presidential Election Thread, Part XV

[LemonMelon]

The Latino vote is absolutely killing it this time around. I love it. Trump made his bed and now he's got to lie in it.

[gump]

Other than Nevada, I'm not sure we have enough data to say so conclusively.


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[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by gump

Other than Nevada, I'm not sure we have enough data to say so conclusively.


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Early voting in the Latino community is up over 300k in Florida. It's jumped from 9℅ of the early voting totals to 15%, which is, eh hem, uuuuuge in a state expected to be as close as Florida.

[U2DMfan]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

Gary Johnson FTW!
(Kidding)

I actually considered voting for him for a while (moons ago).

For the following reasons.

1. Even though I supported HRC over Obama in 2008 (saw her as more centrist), it's no great mystery why anyone would resist supporting her these days.

2. I live in a decidedly Red State. If HRC gets 35% here, I'd be surprised. So casting a vote elsewhere hardly hurts the anti-Trump cause. Besides this, I like the idea of sending a message to the GOP to get more back to its core libertarian values and further away from its authoritarianism and corporate/billionaire ownership.

3. I do have some libertarian leanings in the first place. Though it begs to be mentioned that Ron Paul's flavor of Right Wing libertarianism is hardly what I mean by that. Some call Lawrence Lessig a liberal libertarian and I liked him more than any candidate that ran for President (albeit briefly) this go-around.

4. I have been a 'third party' type since I was old enough to be engaged in politics. The two-party system has sold us out. I don't like either of them. So while there is no real equivalence in the modern state of things (clear the Dems are overall a better option than the more-atrocious GOP), I am always looking for a better option, at least in principle.

5. I've evolved over the years and by now I tend to consider myself essentially Center-Left. So I generally prefer the pragmatist Democrats. But the Leftist Green Party is hardly a good option to me. In other words...there are no better options. It's either HRC or Gary Johnson.

But here's why I could never, in good conscience, for vote for Gary Johnson.

1. HRC, beyond whatever else she is, is the only competent person on the ballot.

2. Even though my vote for her will not mean anything, it's still something a person with integrity has to live with. Voting for Gary Johnson just because HRC is an entitled part of a corrupted system is still voting for fucking Gary Johnson.

3-4. I might have some libertarian leanings and strongly desire a third party or Independent option, I strongly oppose some of the views this Libertarian Party stands for.

5. Aleppo (and other assorted items). Gary Johnson knows less than Donald Trump. And that is a scary thought. I don't care how much I desire a 'protest vote', I can't vote for that asshole.

My state doesn't allow write-in votes at all.

So since I can't write in "Jon Snow, the King in the North", I'll vote HRC.

[iron yuppie]

There are parts of Johnson's platform that are highly attractive, for sure. Stop throwing people in jail for minor drug infractions, stop blowing resources on kicking law-abiding immigrants out of the country, etc. Then there's the other stuff, like basically no social services, no gun restrictions, that cut the other way. Libertarianism is strange that way.

[Irvine511]

Nate Silver Is Unskewing Polls -- All Of Them -- In Trump's Direction | Huffington Post

[gump]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

Early voting in the Latino community is up over 300k in Florida. It's jumped from 9℅ of the early voting totals to 15%, which is, eh hem, uuuuuge in a state expected to be as close as Florida.

Let me rephrase my original point as I was unclear: I think we don't have enough data to know whether the increase in Latino turnout will be enough to make Hillary beat the current polls (other than in NV). As you pointed out, there is definitely evidence of increased Latino turnout in early voting, and there are indications that the Democrats are managing to get unlikely voters to actually vote. But I also feel there's a lot of noise in these last days before the election, and there we still don't know enough about how independents and undecideds vill vote.

But yeah, the indications are good.

[gump]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Nate Silver Is Unskewing Polls -- All Of Them -- In Trump's Direction | Huffington Post

This is such a silly argument. It sounds like Republicans complaining about his model in the last two elections. They should debate the methodology, but not the integrity of the model.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Silver went on a Trumpesque Twitter rant after that article posted

[U2DMfan]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

There are parts of Johnson's platform that are highly attractive, for sure. Stop throwing people in jail for minor drug infractions, stop blowing resources on kicking law-abiding immigrants out of the country, etc. Then there's the other stuff, like basically no social services, no gun restrictions, that cut the other way. Libertarianism is strange that way.

Absolutely. It's like you could sit there and listen to that general platform and find yourself applauding loudly half the time and booing loudly the other half.

But even with the drug issue, and as someone that never really smoked MJ much even when I was younger (put me to sleep, alcohol was my thing), it's such a no-brainer to decriminalize MJ. And they want to do that...but also legalize all the rest of it, including meth and heroin. Have some sense, please.

Even so, if the Libertarian Party would get right on the social services, I could maybe swallow most the other stuff. The idea that the social services are unconstitutional, much less something that supposedly aren't working, or unneeded, is a total and absolute non-starter to me.

Still, I find myself yearning for something else. I think we need a competent Donald Trump. The votes are there, just need to get an acceptable enough candidate running for 2020. An Independent that isn't bought off by campaign funders (probably needs to be independently wealthy), that is reasonably centrist enough (Left or Right) just to help us get campaign finance reform if nothing else. Restore some fucking civility. Whether that's Bloomberg or Mark Cuban or whoever.

I liked Jon Huntsman in 2012. Yeah, he's a social conservative (religious man) and I'm not, but those battles are mostly won. Right now we need decency, integrity and not too-far-out ideas. Hell, we have that with Obama, IMO. But he's playing for one of the two teams. We need an Independent more than anything. Someone that the Dems or Reps in congress wouldn't mind allowing to have some 'victories'. Otherwise, nobody is going to work with the opposition. Nobody.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

But even with the drug issue, and as someone that never really smoked MJ much even when I was younger (put me to sleep, alcohol was my thing), it's such a no-brainer to decriminalize MJ. And they want to do that...but also legalize all the rest of it, including meth and heroin. Have some sense, please.

The addictive drug issue is a tricky one, definitely, but I find myself thinking about legalization and regulation of something like heroin. For example in and around my hometown, there is a heroin epidemic. A little while ago, a batch came in that had been cut with something toxic, and it led to some severe health complications and even some deaths. With legality and regulation, that kind of thing doesn't happen. But you also risk normalizing it.

[deep]

"Never vote for any politician who got rich by being one". --- Harry S. Truman

[BVS]

Originally Posted by deep

"Never vote for any politician who got rich by being one". --- Harry S. Truman

That would eliminate both of the major candidates this time around.

Of course Trump was born with a silver spoon, but let's not kid ourselves that he got even more bigly rich with his candidacy. i.e. Trump TV


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[bono_212]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

The addictive drug issue is a tricky one, definitely, but I find myself thinking about legalization and regulation of something like heroin. For example in and around my hometown, there is a heroin epidemic. A little while ago, a batch came in that had been cut with something toxic, and it led to some severe health complications and even some deaths. With legality and regulation, that kind of thing doesn't happen. But you also risk normalizing it.

I've had to take a long hard look at this myself, as my sister recently passed away, likely due to the same batch you're referring to.

I don't WANT people doing heroin. It took away a beautiful life in this world, and left a little boy without parents (his father is in prison for shoplifting to...likely have money to purchase more heroin), but I think to myself if she could've been saved by safer drugs, and I just don't know how to feel.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by bono_212

I've had to take a long hard look at this myself, as my sister recently passed away, likely due to the same batch you're referring to.

That's awful, really sorry to hear that.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

That's awful, really sorry to hear that.

Thanks, yeah. It's made a huge difference in my life. Before the whole "war on drugs" thing was something that happened, but I was removed from it. Now it's right in my face, and I really want to find a way to help/do something. Actually, I talked about this a little in Random when I was telling you all about meeting Common, come to think of it. I met Common on the flight home to her funeral. The two events, to me, weren't a coincidence, but, I'm a spiritual person and I believe in fate, so there you are.

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by bono_212

I've had to take a long hard look at this myself, as my sister recently passed away, likely due to the same batch you're referring to.

I don't WANT people doing heroin. It took away a beautiful life in this world, and left a little boy without parents (his father is in prison for shoplifting to...likely have money to purchase more heroin), but I think to myself if she could've been saved by safer drugs, and I just don't know how to feel.

So sorry to hear that.
I've lost a first cousin to drugs, can only imagine how much worse losing a sibling is.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Trump rushed off the stage by secret service in Nevada in middle of speech. Somebody tackled in the crowd. Cleared person out, and now he's back on stage.

[bono_212]

Just watched the video, that was freaky.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

And Tim Kaine's bus was hit by a car going at a high rate of speed.