2011 MLB Thread - Part II

[Hewson]

As for pitching being watered down? Well we don't know about that, either. How many black, hispanic, and Asian pitchers were there back then? The talent pool is massively larger to draw on, so the "watered down" argument makes me chuckle whenever I hear it.

And routinely the best athletes in the U.S. choose other sports over baseball nowadays unlike 70 years ago...obviously its impossible to compare, but face it there's a lot of MLB pitchers who wouldn't have those jobs if there were only 16 teams in the league like in '41, so you'd only have about the top 50% of today's pitchers being in the majors...we'd have no Chien Ming Wang starting tonight.

 

[Hewson]

WE is collective for everyone within the discussion. Namely myself, the tourist, and Drea. That comment is inappropriately directed at all three of us.

.

Well I guess you know what I was thinking then.
Sorry to have offended you, will try not to let it happen again

 

[Hewson]

Ok, you twisted my arm.

I just wrote a quick sim to figure out the chances of somebody getting a hit streak of 57 games or longer in my lifetime. If in the rest of my lifetime there are 200 players who each bat .325 over a 2000-game career and get 4 at-bats per game (and I think all of these assumptions are generous to the hitters), there's about a 10% chance that somebody will hit in 57 straight games.

I'd happily give you 10-1 odds against it happening...but then to collect, I'd have to outlive you (and you can surely give me the probability of that and I guarantee it is on the low side) and get the payoff put in your will.

 

[the tourist]

And routinely the best athletes in the U.S. choose other sports over baseball nowadays unlike 70 years ago...obviously its impossible to compare, but face it there's a lot of MLB pitchers who wouldn't have those jobs if there were only 16 teams in the league like in '41, so you'd only have about the top 50% of today's pitchers being in the majors...we'd have no Chien Ming Wang starting tonight.

Well this is pretty obvious seeing as not many teams would go out with 9 or 10-man starting rotations. But there is no way to prove that Chien Ming Wang wouldn't have been one of the best starters in the game in 1941, despite the fact that he's nowhere close nowadays. I'm not saying he would be. I'm just saying there's really no way of knowing.

 

[Hewson]

Well this is pretty obvious seeing as not many teams would go out with 9 or 10-man starting rotations. But there is no way to prove that Chien Ming Wang wouldn't have been one of the best starters in the game in 1941, despite the fact that he's nowhere close nowadays. I'm not saying he would be. I'm just saying there's really no way of knowing.

I'm not saying FrenchDog Vase Penis would have been a starter in 1941...I'm saying no way he is a starter tonight or anywhere near a MLB roster if there's only 16 teams instead of 30...you're talking about 70 starters who'd be either in AAA or bagging groceries.

 

[the tourist]

I'm not saying FrenchDog Vase Penis would have been a starter in 1941...I'm saying no way he is a starter tonight or anywhere near a MLB roster if there's only 16 teams instead of 30...you're talking about 70 starters who'd be either in AAA or bagging groceries.

I know what you were saying. What I'm saying is if you took him as he is now and placed him (or someone with his exact skillset) in 1941, there is a possibility that they'd be one of the greats simply due to advanced training, a repertoire of pitches that may or may not have been in great practice, etc. I don't know much or anything about Wang. But I can't prove that he would have been great and you can't disprove that he would have been great. It's a conundrum. And this is why comparing eras is silly.

EDIT: However, if there were only 16 teams right now, you're right.

 

[speedracer]

I'd happily give you 10-1 odds against it happening...but then to collect, I'd have to outlive you (and you can surely give me the probability of that and I guarantee it is on the low side) and get the payoff put in your will.

I would like to wager eleventy billion Zimbabwean dollars on this proposition.

 

[speedracer]

Random observation: a lot of kids in the UK seem to be very interested in baseball all of a sudden.

 

[the tourist]

Random observation: a lot of kids in the UK seem to be very interested in baseball all of a sudden.

Baseball, or breaking kneecaps after rugby matches or whatever.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

(rioting)

 

[the tourist]

What the fuck is going on in Arlington? Mariners chasing a good starter early? Has that happened this year?

 

[Drea]

What the fuck is going on in Arlington? Mariners chasing a good starter early? Has that happened this year?

Even the best pitchers have off nights - they're human, after all

OTOH, accusing a team of stealing signs because they beat a "better" team... WTF?? Apparently someone's going around accusing the Jays of stealing signs (as if!) How desperate do you have to be to justify a loss by saying a team - near the bottom of the freaking division! - "stole" signs so they could win??

 

[speedracer]

Angels are throwing out a AA pitcher in Yankee Stadium. His fastball is straight as an arrow. This will not end well.

 

[gump]

Angels are throwing out a AA pitcher in Yankee Stadium. His fastball is straight as an arrow. This will not end well.

For once the Yankees' playing-against-rookie-pitcher-they-never-saw-before-syndrome was overcome.

/popularmyth

 

[mikal]

if the Brewers can maintain this lead in the NL Central, it will officially be the best sports year in my life....as well as many other Wisconsin sports fans. ad in the Badgers potentially contending for a National Championship and the Packers potentially repeating.....sorry, getting carried away.

 

[Hewson]

if the Brewers can maintain this lead in the NL Central, it will officially be the best sports year in my life....as well as many other Wisconsin sports fans. ad in the Badgers potentially contending for a National Championship and the Packers potentially repeating.....sorry, getting carried away.

And the Bucks...well, you have baseball and football.

 

[mikal]

 

[Drea]

Oh, meant to point this out earlier... I believe it was thetourist who asked how many black, Hispanic and Asian pitchers there would have been in the league in 1941...

Answer: None. Jackie Robinson hadn't broken the colour barrier as yet, MLB was lily-white then, and the Negro Leagues were still in existence. Would've been interesting to see someone like Satchel Paige in his prime pitching then, instead of being a "rookie" at *thinks* I'd have to look it up, but I'm sure Paige was in his 30s - or maybe 40 - when he started in the bigs.

Discuss: How different would major league baseball have been - and what records exist that now only stand in the baseball history books of the Negro League - had there been full integration then?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

You quoted Headache. Headache's comment was directed at me.

No, it wasn't.

Actually, my interpretation is that Headache's comment :

Was in response to Drea's comment:

Yes, it was.

Lucky has certainly livened up the place since his arrival last year. Let's call him U2Kitten 2.0 in honor of such a feat.

Meow.

Well I guess you know what I was thinking then.
Sorry to have offended you, will try not to let it happen again

Try you will. Fail you will.

Lastly... I'd like yo point out that if I were able to hop in a delorean, crank that bitch up to 88, some crazy shit would happen, and I'd so be starting for the Knicks.

Many things have changed over the years, in all sports. Players in every sport have access to advanced training, nutrition, scouting and medicine that never even existed before. And I'm not even talking about HGH, which I feel should be legal, or Anabolic steroids.

Side note... Barry bonds is the greatest player I have ever seen. I don't care how many horse pills he put in his body. He had something that very few people over the course of the game have ever had.

Something that allowed Tony gwynn to be an all time great and a fat slob at the same time. Something that Joe D and Ted Williams both had, that allowed Ted to not just hit baseballs at an alarming rate but North Korean's as well, and something that hasn't changed one iota from 1911 to 2011.

He had amazing hand eye coordination.

Because when it all comes down to it... you can lift all the weights you want, you can watch all the video you want, you can have all the horse seaman injected into your blood that you want.

You still have to see the ball, hit the ball. And that is still the toughest thing to do in all of the big 4 American sports.

Fail 70% of the time for your career? Welcome to Cooperstown.

 

[Hewson]

Try you will. Fail you will.
.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Wow, can't believe it was 17 years ago that the players went on strike. The poor Expos didn't get the chance to make a run to the World Series. Wonder what the ratings would have been for Yankees/Expos.

 

[kramwest1]

Oh, meant to point this out earlier... I believe it was thetourist who asked how many black, Hispanic and Asian pitchers there would have been in the league in 1941...

Answer: None. Jackie Robinson hadn't broken the colour barrier as yet, MLB was lily-white then, and the Negro Leagues were still in existence. Would've been interesting to see someone like Satchel Paige in his prime pitching then, instead of being a "rookie" at *thinks* I'd have to look it up, but I'm sure Paige was in his 30s - or maybe 40 - when he started in the bigs.

Discuss: How different would major league baseball have been - and what records exist that now only stand in the baseball history books of the Negro League - had there been full integration then?

Weren't there light-skinned Hispanics in the league back then?
I thought I read that somewhere.
(I'm not a baseball history student.)

 

[Hewson]

Weren't there light-skinned Hispanics in the league back then?
I thought I read that somewhere.
(I'm not a baseball history student.)

Jorge Hermano Ruth?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Well many people do think that babe was biracial.

I fully agree that players in the early era before integration didn't face the best talent.

That said, neither does today's player. Baseball has been a dying sport with American youth. African American participation in MLB is at the lowest levels since right after the color barrier was broken. Young black youths simply don't play baseball anymore.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Back to real baseball talk... poor Daniel Murphy. Dude can't catch a break.

 

[kramwest1]

Light-Skin Cubans Cross Baseball's Color Line : NPR

 

[gump]

 

[MrPryck2U]

Awesome!

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Poor Daniel Murphy. Poor me, there goes 2B for my fantasy team

 

[Drea]

! TO fans strike back!