US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part III

[phillyfan26]

My very own church openly discusses how the pro-life movement is THE only way to go. They take collections for pro-life marches on Washington.

That's much worse than talking about MLK. And that's my own church!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

If you want to get away from the pressing issues of the day when you're in church, well I would question that. Certainly overt politics don't belong there but so many of the issues are tied in to what God and Jesus and whatever your Deities are might be are all about. Feeding the hungry and all that evolves from that, social justice, peace, the list goes on and on.

Huckabee's sermons are far more political than anything Obama said there. When Obama starts talking about amending the Constitution to be in line with God then we can make comparisons. Nothing Obama has said scares me or seems inappropriate mixing of religion and politics- Huckabee is absolutely that to me and it scares me.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Rudy will live to see another primary-Johnny Damon campaigned with him in Florida today

 

[phillyfan26]

At one point, he looked like Jesus.

Take that, Huckabee!

 

[deep]

Here's the speech Senator Obama made in the church



"The Scripture tells us that when Joshua and the Israelites arrived at the gates of Jericho, they could not enter. The walls of the city were too steep for any one person to climb; too strong to be taken down with brute force. And so they sat for days, unable to pass on through.

But God had a plan for his people. He told them to stand together and march together around the city, and on the seventh day he told them that when they heard the sound of the ram’s horn, they should speak with one voice. And at the chosen hour, when the horn sounded and a chorus of voices cried out together, the mighty walls of Jericho came tumbling down.

There are many lessons to take from this passage, just as there are many lessons to take from this day.

This is one of many "stories" in the "good book" that is very evil.


What did Joshua and his band of brothers do?

They went in and butchered every man, woman, child, baby, fetus, old person, etc without mercy

but they did not stop there -
they killed every living creature


and what were the murdered gullty of?

living peacably in there own homes
but the invaders coveted and wanted their land


is this any worse or better than a person that walks into a cafe and blows up only 5-6 people?




yes, i learned this story very young, in Sunday school, and I used to celebrate it!!


But why, because I chose to identify with Joshua?
but what of the butchered people?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

At one point, he looked like Jesus.

Take that, Huckabee!

Looks like Jesus

Acts like Judas

Throws like Mary

 

[A_Wanderer]

“Any person who has knelt in prayer to the Almighty has a friend and ally in me.”
(Mitt Romney, US presidential hopeful)

“The hand of God today is in every step of what happens with me and every human being that exists on this planet.”
(John Edwards, US presidential hopeful)

“I have had a grounding in faith that gave me the courage and the strength to do what I thought was right, regardless of what the world thought. And that’s all one can expect or hope for.”
(Hillary Clinton, US presidential hopeful)

“My Bible tells me that if we train a child in the way he should go, when he is old he will not turn from it. So I think faith and guidance can help fortify … a sense of reverence that all young people should have for the act of sexual intimacy.”
(Barack Obama, US presidential hopeful)

“The Bible was not written to be amended. The Constitution was,”
(Mike Huckabee, US presidential hopeful speaking of making gay marriage and abortion constitutionally impossible)

http://www.secularism.org.uk/

The only good thing that very few of them actually mean it.

 

[BVS]

Good quotes, these really define the difference in our canidates.

“Any person who has knelt in prayer to the Almighty has a friend and ally in me.”
(Mitt Romney, US presidential hopeful)

To me this says those who don't believe will not have a friend in Mitt. Do we need another divider?

“The hand of God today is in every step of what happens with me and every human being that exists on this planet.”
(John Edwards, US presidential hopeful)

This sounds like a very personal approach to faith. Any believer would believe that their god has a hand in everything and everyone, but I don't hear any judgement in this quote.

“I have had a grounding in faith that gave me the courage and the strength to do what I thought was right, regardless of what the world thought. And that’s all one can expect or hope for.”
(Hillary Clinton, US presidential hopeful)

I find nothing wrong with this, her personal beliefs. I agree, that's all one can hope for.

“My Bible tells me that if we train a child in the way he should go, when he is old he will not turn from it. So I think faith and guidance can help fortify … a sense of reverence that all young people should have for the act of sexual intimacy.”
(Barack Obama, US presidential hopeful)

“The Bible was not written to be amended. The Constitution was,”
(Mike Huckabee, US presidential hopeful speaking of making gay marriage and abortion constitutionally impossible)

This one scares the ever living shit out of me. Huckabilly would run this country further into the ground if elected.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Just looking at Huckabee answer an evolution question shows some great ignorance; but with some good politics (if Americans want a president that doesn't believe in God then there are plenty of choices).

Justifying himself on the basis of his own ignorance gets applause though, very old timey

 

[A_Wanderer]

Oh and youtubing Ron Paul and evolution just gets on the same level of stupid, does seem to fit with some of the columns on the role of religion in the state (one where freedom of religious expression trumps secular governance).

But he isn't running religion as his platform and he doesn't have a chance, unlike the evangelical of choice.

 

[2861U2]

Good quotes, these really define the difference in our canidates.

And of course, to you, all the Republicans' quotes were offensive and all the Democrats' were completely acceptable.

I'm shocked.

 

[BVS]

And of course, to you, all the Republicans' quotes were offensive and all the Democrats' were completely acceptable.

I'm shocked.

Well try and refute my explanations please. The Republicans' divided, the Dems didn't.

You didn't quote those, I'm shocked.

 

[A_Wanderer]

They are also happen to be the most exclusionary quotes. Huckabee would shit all over the constitution even more than Bush has, seems to have no conception of the secular liberal democracy and is statist to boot. Regardless of party he is a very unappealing candidate to all but evangelicals.

 

[BVS]

I agree, I really thought we couldn't do worse than Bush, but Huckabilly would actually make me consider moving...

 

[anitram]

“The Bible was not written to be amended. The Constitution was,”
(Mike Huckabee)

And the Constitution was amended. It now reads "Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion...."

 

[A_Wanderer]

And the Constitution was amended. It now reads "Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion...."

That is so beautiful that I want one here (singing Jesus Loves Me in a state schools Religious Education lessons was wrong from a secularism standpoint).

 

[2861U2]

Well try and refute my explanations please. The Republicans' divided, the Dems didn't.

I found nothing wrong with what the Democrats said there. I also didn't find anything wrong with what Romney or Huckabee said.

You said of Romney's quote "To me this says those who don't believe will not have a friend in Mitt." I don't see that as the implication at all. To me, he's saying that he would be the president of people of any and all faiths, including no faith at all. He was probably addressing the stupid notion that he would be a "Mormon president" only.


Huckabee: "The Bible was not written to be amended. The Constitution was."

Are you telling me that that's a false statement? To the best of my knowledge, the Constitution was amended to allow blacks and women to vote, among many others things. Are you telling me that justice and equal worthiness are ideas not found in the Bible?

 

[BVS]

I found nothing wrong with what the Democrats said there. I also didn't find anything wrong with what Romney or Huckabee said.

You said of Romney's quote "To me this says those who don't believe will not have a friend in Mitt." I don't see that as the implication at all. To me, he's saying that he would be the president of people of any and all faiths, including no faith at all. He was probably addressing the stupid notion that he would be a "Mormon president" only.


Huckabee: "The Bible was not written to be amended. The Constitution was."

Are you telling me that that's a false statement? To the best of my knowledge, the Constitution was amended to allow blacks and women to vote, among many others things. Are you telling me that justice and equal worthiness are ideas not found in the Bible?

Romney's quote mentions nothing of those who don't believe, so how would anyone read that athiest or agnostics have a friend in Romney? In fact other quotes have backed up my statement.

Huck's quote. You need to learn how to read things in context, you seem to have a problem with that. Huck's been quoted many times saying the constitution needs to be ammended to be closer to the Bible.

Both divide, plain and simple. They were not just personal statements but declarations.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Huckabee is stating that he is an imbecile, he is saying that he believes that the Bible is a perfect bit of God revealed truth therefore it must be superior to a man made document. The man wants a big government to institute a conservative Christian social agenda - he is the candidate for theocracy.

Having a constitution that preached liberty while the authors held slaves was an evil, that a society could strive towards more freedom however slowly and incrementally and adjust it's guidelines to the ends of being a freer society, for greater liberty, is a good thing for most people. Huckabee is stating that he has a revealed bit of truth that he sees as a superior rule book and he would have no issue pushing those principles into the constitution (if given the opportunity - which he never would be).

Huckabee treats an amendable constitution as a weakness, not unlike his mobs contempt for the scientific method because it can find new answers and reject flawed older theories (eternal ignorance is far superior to progressive accumulation of knowledge in the mind of a fundamentalist).

 

[deep]

“My Bible tells me that if we train a child in the way he should go, when he is old he will not turn from it. So I think faith and guidance can help fortify … a sense of reverence that all young people should have for the act of sexual intimacy.”
(Barack Obama, US presidential hopeful)

Mixing up the Bible with sexuality

A slippery slope. indeed.

 

[BVS]

Mixing up the Bible with sexuality

A slippery slope. indeed.

Only in the eyes of some...

And most of those have already made up their minds.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Did anyone watch the Democratic debate? I literally yelled at my tv and said who cares about this crap when Sen Clinton and Sen Obama were sniping back and forth. I think John Edwards won that debate and I think I might have to vote for him.

 

[verte76]

I watched the debate. Edwards was great. All of them were really going at each other.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

(Reuters)Mon Jan 21, 11:58 AM ET

Consumer advocate Ralph Nader said on Monday he will decide soon on whether to make a another bid for the White House in 2008, eight years after playing a key role as a third party presidential candidate.

"I'll decide in about a month," he said in an interview broadcast on CBC Radio's Daybreak show in Montreal.

"What I'm deciding on right now is whether we can get enough volunteers, enough financial resources to overcome the huge ballot access obstacles, which you don't experience here in Canada, but which are the worst in the Western world in the United States," said Nader, who will turn 74 on February 27.

Nader, who made his name as a consumer crusader during decades of battling corporations on matters from car to food safety, ran for president as an independent in 2004 and as the Green Party candidate in 2000.

Critics say he siphoned away enough votes from then Democratic Vice President Al Gore in the 2000 campaign -- especially in Florida -- to help Republican George W. Bush to win the White House.

 

[martha]

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

yes

Did anyone watch the Democratic debate?

 

[U2democrat]

I turned it on 45 minutes into it when Edwards and Clinton were ganging up on Obama. It'll be interesting to see if that works for him the way the debate in NH did for Hillary.


One thing's for sure, there's no lost between Clinton and Obama.

 

[phanan]

It was a terrible debate. Edwards was probably the best. The continued sniping between Clinton and Obama made both of them look fairly pathetic last night.

 

[2861U2]

Yeah, I think Obama really got beat up last night by both of them. Makes me wonder if he could hold his own against someone like McCain.

 

[2861U2]

It'll be interesting to see if that works for him the way the debate in NH did for Hillary.

I don't think it matters. He's already leading by 10 in SC, whereas in NH, Hillary was behind.