The End is Nigh: US Presidential Election Thread Part XVI

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It still is hugely difficult to cope, but I made a few decisions about what to do next:
1. Not be complacent. Call out casual racism, sexism or xenophobia where I see it. Even the old uncle that only shows up for Christmas.
2. Engage. Donate. Volunteer to anti-discrimination and civil rights organizations. We can't take any of the good parts about our lives for granted.
3. Be more kind to people, especially people that are different than me.
4. Stop watching CNN and other news networks that contributed to the Trump phenomenon.
5. Continue to pay to a subscription of a newspaper.
6. Support the arts, and protest art in particular.
7. Get a puppy.

Sorry if that sounds silly, but it's a start for me.

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Far from silly, a pretty good outlook, and a puppy is never a bad idea.
But just let me have my fun at Christmas nephew, its the one day a year I get out
Personally, I don't think it makes much difference if you are racist or if you enable a racist. It feels the latter is a cope out to the former. It makes you feel good about yourself because you are not really a racist. You just want America to be great!

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Far from silly, a pretty good outlook, and a puppy is never a bad idea.

But just let me have my fun at Christmas nephew, its the one day a year I get out

I'd pay to see Uncle Hewson's behavior with nephews at Thanksgiving.

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There are reports that many of the middle America Trump voters are just the opposite, not well off, struggling as jobs disappear. They chose to vote for the candidate that they believe presented ideas that might bring some form of prosperity back to their regions, their industries.

I agree that being condescending isn't going to help matters, but sorry, I will never be able to understand how somebody who's struggling financially could look at Trump, with his name emblazoned on multiple properties, with his millions of dollars, with things in said properties made out of literal gold, with the multiple businesses he's let go bankrupt while he walks off with his riches, who's taken pride in not paying taxes for eighteen freaking years while people who are struggling financially are being left to pick up the slack tax-wise, etc., and honestly still think, "Yep. THAT guy is going to help make little ol' me prosperous."

They claim they're tired of the rich getting richer. Like I said a number of pages back, HE IS THE VERY EMBODIMENT OF THE RICH GETTING RICHER. He's supposed to be the very sort of thing they're sick of. And yet they still voted for him because...?

Whether that ends up coming to fruition of course remains to be seen, but how so many people are faulting these folks for voting for someone they think may help better their personal situations is disheartening.

If he's able to put together the sort of cabinet people are talking about, and given the Republican Party in general still seems to cling to trickle down economics/tax cuts for the rich as a viable economic plan, then I think it's safe to say that no, any hopes for financial prosperity are definitely not going to come to fruition.

Sorry, it's just so hard not to be incredibly frustrated at how so many people got conned by Trump so easily. Because they WERE conned, and badly so. I live in the middle of the country, I've seen the kinds of struggles you speak of that people are going through. My family's lower working-class/poor ourselves, and we've definitely had our fair share of struggles.

And I STILL do not get how anyone in that sort of economic situation can think Trump is the answer to their problems.
re: CNN

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As someone who is socially liberal, when I say I detest CNN, it's a love-hate relationship. Of the big three networks, they do have the most logical and balanced broadcasters. But as a network, they are the absolute worst when it comes to sensationalizing things.

If people recall, I sort of took the attitude of "ignore Trump's prejudices distractions and talk about his failure to develop legitimate policy." I feel like this was a very big reason as to why he was able to win. He got away with distracting people over the fact that he has no development of policy and otherwise just has ideas. But the sensational media really pushed his prejudice. It was reason to be angry. It was reason not to vote for him. It isn't effective in stopping his campaign, though. We learned that in the primaries.
Whats really bothering my right now is this whole bullshit about, "everyone needs to be careful about labeling the people that voted for Trump as racist".

I'm sorry, but there is little difference to me in someone who has a confederate flag on their truck and yells ni@#er at people, and the person that talks about "those people" and how "they" only have themselves to blame, and then support someone for PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES who is openly a bigot.
Sorry, you get no pass from me.

If your child was at school, and the asshole in their class that pushed and bullied people, stole their lunch money, made them do his homework, pinned them down and farted on their heads, called them names, etc...
Would you tell your child to be that kids friend? To help him do the bad things he does? To sit by his side and cheer him on? To vote for him for class president??

I guess many people would.

I've cried several times these last couple days. It sort of hits me in wave when i look at my daughter. I wanted to show her something better. But here we are.
The only time I ever watch CNN is if there's some big breaking news happening or it happens to be on TV some place I'm visiting or whatever. I don't watch any of the three major news networks with any sort of regularity, really. I don't really have the patience to listen to people try and kill time between news developments with inane chitchat, I'm tired of the "Let's go to Twitter/Facebook and see what YOU think" aspect of things-if I wanted to know what people on those sites think about a news story, I'd go read them myself/make an account. The whole point of tuning in to CNN/MSNBC/Fox is to see what the people reporting the news have to say.

And with CNN especially, they spend WAY too much time on ridiculous graphics to try and explain a news story to people. It's stupid and annoying.

I also agree that the media needs to take some responsibility for getting Trump to where he is. Problem is, though, even if they had spent time actually detailing his complete lack of any sort of policy, I still don't think that would've gotten through to some people. The CNN and MSNBC pundits/reporters would've simply been preaching to the choir with their explanations of how horrible a president Trump would be. Trump supporters wouldn't be watching, because to them, those networks are simply part of that "mainstream/liberal media" they can't stand. There was little means for anyone to try and get through to the Trump supporters in an objective, non-biased setting.
I'm sorry, but there is little difference to me in someone who has a confederate flag on their truck and yells ni@#er at people

I've heard a few stories within the past year of people who live in northern states proudly displaying the Confederate flag, and that truly baffles me. I have to believe their display of that flag is racially motivated, because I can't fathom any other logical reason, outside of MAYBE being a general U.S. history buff/collector sort, why anyone in the northern U.S. would willingly support or give a crap about anything Confederacy-related.
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Donald Trump’s stunning victory will force the United States to confront a series of never-before-seen entanglements over the president’s private business, debts and rocky financial history.

No laws prohibit Trump from involving himself in his private company, the Trump Organization, while serving in the highest public office.

And Trump has so far resisted the long-standing presidential tradition of giving his holdings to an independent manager, stoking worries of conflicts of interests over his businesses’ many financial and foreign ties.

Trump’s business empire of hotels, golf courses and licensing deals in the U.S. and abroad, some of which have benefited from tax breaks or government subsidies, represents an ethical minefield for a commander in chief who would oversee the U.S. budget and foreign relations, some analysts say.

President elect Trump will likely take the witness stand in a federal civil trial starting later this month, a first for an incoming president, over claims of fraud at his Trump University real estate seminar series.

Other Trump companies are partially indebted to banks in Germany and China. On financial disclosure filings, Trump listed involvements in more than 500 companies, some in countries where the U.S. has sensitive diplomatic or financial relationships, such as Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and China.

Those entanglements are unprecedented, unavoidable and “troubling,” Ken Gross, a former elections enforcement official and lawyer who has advised presidential candidates from both parties, said after the election. “He has investments in businesses in unfriendly countries and the businesses are often tied to those unfriendly governments.”

“The obvious solution is to sell those interests,” Gross said, but many holdings may not be easily sold, or are still tied to debts personally guaranteed by Trump. “Removing himself or his family from the perception of self or family interest may prove difficult,” he added.

Ethics officials urged Trump during his campaign to pledge he would sell his businesses or cede them to an independent authority. Many modern presidents — including Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and both Bushes — went beyond what was required and placed their assets in “blind trusts,” run by third party managers who keep complete control.

But Trump has refused to make such a pledge, saying only that he would give companies to his children and executives to run.

Attorneys said that would put little distance between a President Trump and the businesses he spent a lifetime grooming and profiting from.

"Now we are faced with the possibility that a son or daughter of the president will turn up in Moscow or Uzbekistan or somewhere else negotiating a deal on a new property that will bear the name of the president, and the full knowledge that the president really is an owner of the company," Trevor Potter, a former Federal Election Commission chairman and general counsel for George H.W. Bush and Sen. John McCain (RAriz.), said in September.

"That presents problems of a dimension wehave never seen before. "

Trump’s presidential campaign funneled vast sums of money to private Trump companies, and he has celebrated that his companies could reap the benefits of his rise to public power. In June, he tweeted about Trump University, “After the litigation is disposed of and the case won, I have instructed my execs to open Trump U(?), so much interest in it! I will be pres.”

Those business conflicts will bind the president-elect even before his inauguration. Trump could be called to testify in the Trump University trial, part of a class-action lawsuit brought by former students who said they were misled about the seminars' offerings. That case is scheduled for the San Diego courtroom of U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who Trump accused of bias and falsely claimed was Mexican.

The government investigators scrutinizing Trump's businesses and allies, analysts said, could be influenced by the fact that their target could be their boss. Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was named in a corruption investigation by a Ukrainian agency working with the FBI. New York state has also ordered Trump's charitable foundation to stop fundraising because it lacked the proper authorization.

Members of Congress must recuse themselves from government dealings touching on their own financial interests, according to strict regulations in the Ethics in Government Act of 1978, enacted after Watergate. Presidents, however, were made exempt from those rules on the belief they could further complicate the wide ranging job.

In the run-up to the election, Trump said he would take little interest in his businesses if he won the Oval Office. “If I become president, I couldn’t care less about my company. It’s peanuts,” he said during a January debate. “Run the company, kids. Have a good time.”

The Trump Organization's executive vice president, Alan Garten, echoed that sentiment to The Post in September. “His focus is going to be solely on improving the country,” Garten said. “The business is not going to be a factor or an interest at that point.”

Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. has insisted that Trump’s holdings would go into a blind trust managed by him and his siblings Eric and Ivanka Trump.

“We're not going to be involved in government,” Trump Jr. said in September on “Good Morning America.” “He wants nothing to do with [the company]. He wants to fix this country.”

When pressed over the potential of Trump and his family still discussing the business while Trump is in office, Trump Jr. said, “We're not going to discuss those things. … Trust me. As you know, it's a very fulltime job. He doesn't need to worry about the business. The business is in good hands. He trusts us with that, 100 percent.”

Jan Wi told Baran, a partner at Washington law firm Wiley Rein, said Trump will have to address concerns over government decisions that would affect his businesses, no matter who's running them.

Giving his companies to his children "doesn't necessarily remove him from those issues for political purposes," Baran said. "His name is on the business, for Pete's sake."

During his victory speech early Wednesday, Trump took pride in his business record and connected it to his ability to lead the country, saying, “I've spent my entire life in business, looking at the untapped potential in projects and in people all over the world.”

Trump business and campaign officials did not respond to requests for comment on any timeline or details for the next steps Trump would take with his business empire. Trump’s company oversees eight U.S. hotels in Chicago, Honolulu, New York City, Las Vegas, and its newest, in Washington, opened a few blocks from the White House on the likely route of Trump’s inauguration parade.

At the new Trump International Hotel in Washington’s Old Post Office Pavilion, which his company leases from the federal government, Trump now effectively serves as both the landlord and the tenant. It's unclear how talks over lease payments or building maintenance would be conducted.

The Trump Organization is also set to receive federal tax credits to preserve the project's historic nature, a program his administration will now oversee. Trump has invested an estimated $42 million of his own company's money in the project.

Similar situations could emerge as federal housing officials — future employees of President Trump — will now be charged with enforcing housing rules, including at Trump properties in New York, Chicago and elsewhere.

Free speech advocates have decried deals that federal officials made in providing the Trump Organization control over parts of Pennsylvania Avenue around the hotel. President Trump is poised to oversee those agreements with his company as well.
Trump real estate holdings and other companies owe hundreds of millions of dollars to domestic and foreign banks, which ethics advisers say marks a wide vulnerability for Trump that could tilt his judgment or independence. At one Manhattan office
tower co-owned by Trump, the lenders include the Bank of China, a massive financial institution in the Asian superpower Trump has repeatedly attacked.

The full extent of Trump’s business relationships around the world remains unknown. He has refused to release his tax returns, which would outline key information about his financial holdings and foreign accounts.

The biggest lender to Trump’s business empire is Deutsche Bank, the German financial giant now negotiating a settlement with the U.S. Department of Justice to settle claims related to disastrous “toxic” mortgages the bank issued amid the housing crisis.

Justice officials said in September they would seek a $14 billion fine from the bank, a vast sum that sparked worries over the bank’s financial survival. But the final fine has not been publicly made official, and government ethics experts have voiced concern that a President Trump could potentially influence the negotiations.

Garten, the Trump company executive, told The Post in September that he did “not see the conflict” in Trump taking control of a government pushing to penalize one of Trump’s most important financial allies.

The bank has undergone criminal investigations by government authorities in the U.S. and other countries. After one probe last year, the bank agreed to pay $2.5 billion in fines to resolve a scandal over its alleged rigging of influential loan interest rates. In June, the International Monetary Fund said the bank was one of the biggest “contributors to systemic risks in the global banking system.”

Trump’s companies signed for roughly $360 million in Deutsche loans tied to the Trump National Doral golf club in south Florida, the Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago, and the new Trump International Hotel in Washington. Those loans are set to come due by 2024, which could parallel the end of a possible Trump presidency’s second term.

Trump’s election will again spotlight the many connections between his businesses and Russia, a long-standing antagonist of the United States. Trump has praised Russian President Vladimir Putin and voiced hopes he could develop new real estate
businesses there.

Strong evidence suggests Trump’s businesses have received significant funding from Russian investors. Donald Trump Jr. said at a New York real estate conference in 2008 that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” and that “we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

The election of Trump, who campaigned against trade and immigration, sent shock waves through financial markets across the world early Wednesday. Global stocks and the dollar plunged and, though some markets have recovered early losses, analysts have pointed to growing uncertainty among companies with foreign dealings.

“The U.S. economy and financial markets suddenly find themselves in no man’s land,” said Mark Hamrick,’s senior economic analyst. “The way forward for large companies, for example, doing business across borders, as well as any size firm reliant upon an immigrant workforce, is difficult to chart from here.”

How Trump’s company could evolve remains a mystery. The election has transformed Trump from a noted real estate developer and reality show host into one of the world’s most famous men, with a fanbase energized by his rhetoric and showmanship and, perhaps, willing to follow him beyond the vote.

But his most energized audience — of, largely, middle American and bluecollar voters — is also a class his businesses have long ignored, through highclass offerings such as $800 hotel rooms and $30,000 golf club memberships.

“He’s built this enormously resonant brand with what I’ll affectionately call angry white males. It’s not only a big market, but it appears to be growing,” said Scott Galloway, a professor of marketing who teaches brand strategy at New York University, on
Tuesday. “But his current product offering caters to affluent, fortunate and relatively happy people. And as a general rule, the affluent are mildly horrified by the current trajectory of the Trump brand.”

Trump’s brand may remain anathema to some potential customers who were turned off by his campaign despite his victory. Trump International Hotel and Tower, a 57story tower that opened in Toronto four years ago, was placed into receivership recently when it failed to hit financial projections, according to court filings. Trump operates that property but does not own it.

However, Symon Zucker, an attorney for the project’s owner, said Tuesday that a Trump victory wasn’t “going to affect it positively.”

“All the same people who weren’t going to come to it before aren’t going to come to it now,” he said.

Jonathan O'Connell and Tom Hamburger contributed to this report.

But yea... Hillary couldn't become president because SHE was too corrupt.

For fucks sake did you even think of the ramifications or do your research? Jesus tap dancing christ.
I always hate posting "voter intimidation" stories because often they're so anecdotal or heresy, but there was a man arrested in the town where I went to college. Often times in college it's not your permanent address, you might be from out of state, etc, so there's additional paperwork in order to vote. But this man would approach women and minorities and turn them away if they didn't have a state dl, which is not mandatory if you have other forms of id. Some students who knew their rights eventually turned him in, but there's no telling how many got frustrated and just left.

Apparently there were other campuses that had similar stories.

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Yeah, I don't question these types of things at all. The more anecdotal evidence, the better, IMO, because it puts a face to an issue, for me at least.
I don't think all the Trump voters are racists and misogynists, but Trump's 'message' throughout the campaign was definitely filled with racism and misogyny.

In many ways it is irrelevant how "The Trump Experiment" will work out. The fact that a campaign littered with racism, misogyny and a ton of lies can apparently lead to the presidency of the USA is frightening. It begs the question where the line is drawn of what is considered acceptable/unacceptable. Half of the stuff Trump has said would get you fired from your job (and rightfully so), but apparently it doesn't stop you from getting the most important job on the planet.
It's incomprehensible.

This and This.

It's not necessarily that I think his voters are racists etc etc, but that they enabled it and in my eyes, it's just as bad. My mom asked me yesterday if I'm still going to come home for Thanksgiving. If I hadn't already bought my plane ticket, I just don't know. My aunt, the most vocal and spiteful of them that I've told you all about a lot, is the one who hosts the party. I used to love her to death, we could always look past politics, and for her, this is a surface level thing. You're a democrat, I'm a republican, and in the past, I could also shrug it away like that. But now? I just don't know how I'm supposed to look her in the eye and say, "You voted for Trump and I can be OK with that." because right now that thought fills me with so much hate and a little rage. Fucking breaks my heart.

But yea... Hillary couldn't become president because SHE was too corrupt.

For fucks sake did you even think of the ramifications or do your research? Jesus tap dancing christ.

“He has investments in businesses in unfriendly countries and the businesses are often tied to those unfriendly governments.”

Speaking of endorsements, i hope you took notice of the Clinton Foundation Donations that poured in from countries who support rape and murder of women, homosexuals, etc.

Hmmmm. Yeah.

So Trump may have to testify in a trial about fraud in his university soon, and there's also that child rape trial involving him coming up next month.

And he's about to become our next president.

But sure, let's totally stop being angry at this outcome.
Hmmmm. Yeah.

So Trump may have to testify in a trial about fraud in his university soon, and there's also that child rape trial involving him coming up next month.

And he's about to become our next president.

But sure, let's totally stop being angry at this outcome.
I believe the rape thing was dismissed, was it not?
Last I heard the trial was still set to go forward next month, but I could be wrong about that.

I also heard that supposedly the woman who claims he raped her back then was going to speak out shortly before the election, but due to death threats she decided not to say anything.

In a dramatic development, the woman who alleged in a federal lawsuit that Trump raped her in the 1990s when she was 13 years old dropped the suit in the final days of the election. The accuser, named in the lawsuit as “Jane Doe,” was set to come forward with her allegations for the first time at a press conference in Los Angeles last week. Her lawyer canceled the conference at the last minute, however, saying her client was too afraid to appear after receiving death threats.

Alan Garten, vice president and general counsel for the Trump Organization, did not return a call for comment to PEOPLE last week. But Garten has repeatedly and vehemently denied the allegations, telling the New York Daily News they were “categorically untrue, completely fabricated and politically motivated.”
That's sad, but I'd like to see what percentage of that 46% comes from large states where there the result is known ahead of time like New York and California.

If you break it down by state, that's what matters more, that's true.

In Florida, voter turnout was at 74%. One in four didn't vote. So like, a sketch in my head says roughy 2 to 3 million of the 10-12 million or so voters.
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