The End is Nigh: US Presidential Election Thread Part XVI

[mama cass]

I'm hoping Melenchon does well, or at least Nuit Debout could get back up and running (I'm not sure if it's still active or if it's hardly reported now). I was encouraged by the intensification of trade union/worker activity in response to the French government.

the CGT represent a tiny percentage of the workforce - they make a lot of noise compared to their size, and are frowned on by other unions, so don't know how much clout they really have to be honest...

i have always voted socialist, and really like Melenchon and his philosophy but can't see him getting enough votes from the middle classes, business etc. to keep Le Pen out; however, many of my Melenchon-supporting friends are gearing up to back Juppe (hopefully - please God don't let it be Sarko) as a strategic vote to keep the fascists out of power (I don't have a vote here unfortunately, but that's what i would do for sure)

 

[mama cass]

Good Post.

Aside from a couple of brief comments last night (past my bedtime i might add) i have no desire to shitpost. I guess i am not the shit talker that i used to be, and for those who know or remember you would have to agree. I was hell once upon a time.

We need unity, here, there, and everywhere. TRUMP gave a good speech early this morning, Mrs. Clinton gave a good speech today, i haven't heard Mr. Obama's speech yet but i look forward to it. I like the idea of everyone coming together for a common good and healing. Things might be difficult for some and maybe for a while but hopefully it is all for the greater good and that all will eventually be realized.

I hope that makes sense.

unity? no chance - unity on his terms? unity with the KKK twat who said last night was the best night of his life? you want acceptance of what he stands for? then people to turn a blind eye? there needs to be protest, dissent must not be suppressed, he needs to have a massive fuck-off thorn in his side and be held to account every single step of the way over the next 4 years

 

[mama cass]

Finally, something Trump and I can agree on.

i keep thinking, if the shoe were on the other foot right now, all hell would have broken loose...

 

[Salome]

I acknowledge every election cycle has plenty of dirt thrown around.
But how one can go from claiming multiple times your opponent needs to be locked up and for over a year degrade pretty much everyone who isn't a straight white male to a call for unity within the blink of an eye seems cynical even within the realms of politics.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Talks of Palin getting a cabinet position lead me to believe this whole thing is still a joke.

 

[Axver]

Talks of Palin getting a cabinet position lead me to believe this whole thing is still a joke.

I'm starting to think a tweet I read yesterday was true, that the Rapture happened in 2014 and the only people taken were those aboard MH370. We are now going through the End Times.

 

[U2girl]

Unity ? I guess it looks like this for Trump

Omarosa: Trump campaign keeping 'list' of enemies - CNNPolitics.com

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I'm starting to think a tweet I read yesterday was true, that the Rapture happened in 2014 and the only people taken were those aboard MH370. We are now going through the End Times.

Mind. Blown.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

But in the states there are ID cards for those who can't drive, so that's why I'm confused. Like I can't figure out how anyone could accomplish anything, forget voting for a second, like purchasing alcohol, or even cigarettes for a basic example, without having an ID.

yes but you have to go get them, and if you can't drive it makes it even harder to do just that. if you live in a rural area, forget it. alabama, where i used to live, passed voter id laws and then conveniently closed many dmv locations in the most rural counties with the highest black populations.

they then reopened them but only with ridiculous hours, like the fourth wednesday of every month...but what if there is no fourth wednesday? not open i guess. you cannot apply for these by mail since you need to show proof of identity and also have your picture taken.

getting a passport is more convenient as you just go to any post office and there is probably one closer to someone, even in rural areas, but passports are far more expensive than a license or other photo id. plus often if it's not for driving, they don't expire (my dad got his nearly 20 years ago and it says no expiration date) so it's a one-time fee and inconvenience. but if you live three hours from the closest dmv, can't drive, and maybe can't even afford that id, even that can be impossible to pull off.

 

[ntalwar]

...but in the end i realized i had to vote for TRUMP because the risk of HRC getting elected and enforcing the no-fly zone in Syria / starting WW3 was just way way too much.

But you gave Trump a free pass for the scary things he has said about nukes:

https://thinkprogress.org/9-terrify...licly-said-about-nuclear-weapons-99f6290bc32a

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I get angrier by the day

How these people allowed themselves to be conned so badly.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

It's amazing how our perceptions of each other have changed over the course of this election ?

 

[ntalwar]

You've been conned to think that Trump will do anything to help you. Or help anyone other than the wealthy. He loves low information voters.

Exactly. The big banks are happy because Trump wants to roll back Dodd-Frank, which could cause another financial crisis. The typical Trump voter's job could be at risk again.

 

[bono_212]

yes but you have to go get them, and if you can't drive it makes it even harder to do just that. if you live in a rural area, forget it. alabama, where i used to live, passed voter id laws and then conveniently closed many dmv locations in the most rural counties with the highest black populations.

they then reopened them but only with ridiculous hours, like the fourth wednesday of every month...but what if there is no fourth wednesday? not open i guess. you cannot apply for these by mail since you need to show proof of identity and also have your picture taken.

getting a passport is more convenient as you just go to any post office and there is probably one closer to someone, even in rural areas, but passports are far more expensive than a license or other photo id. plus often if it's not for driving, they don't expire (my dad got his nearly 20 years ago and it says no expiration date) so it's a one-time fee and inconvenience. but if you live three hours from the closest dmv, can't drive, and maybe can't even afford that id, even that can be impossible to pull off.

Hmm, interesting. It's still hard for me to wrap my head around, but this helps.

 

[Hewson]

But in the states there are ID cards for those who can't drive, so that's why I'm confused. Like I can't figure out how anyone could accomplish anything, forget voting for a second, like purchasing alcohol, or even cigarettes for a basic example, without having an ID.

In MA, we don't need an ID to vote, and frankly I think that is preposterous. Somebody who knows my name and address could go and vote saying they were me if they get to the polls before I do.

I can't understand the hue and cry over asking for proof that someone is who they claim to be before they vote.
Like you say, folks without a license can get a state ID card, my mother never had a driver's license her entire life, always had a MA state ID.

How do folks get on an airplane without an ID these days (I know not everyone flies)? If you are an adult, I don't think being required to have some form of official identification is infringing on anyone's civil rights.

 

[Hewson]

they then reopened them but only with ridiculous hours, like the fourth wednesday of every month...but what if there is no fourth wednesday? not open i guess. .

There is a fourth Wednesday in every month.

 

[bono_212]

In MA, we don't need an ID to vote, and frankly I think that is preposterous. Somebody who knows my name and address could go and vote saying they were me if they get to the polls before I do.

I can't understand the hue and cry over asking for proof that someone is who they claim to be before they vote.
Like you say, folks without a license can get a state ID card, my mother never had a driver's license her entire life, always had a MA state ID.

How do folks get on an airplane without an ID these days (I know not everyone flies)? If you are an adult, I don't think being required to have some form of official identification is infringing on anyone's civil rights.

It was nice not needing one in CA, but simply for convenience sake. As you say, I always have my ID on me, I don't understand how you're meant to get around without it.

Now there were examples in the article about preposterous situations like the Minn license not being enough. That kinda stuff is clearly just trying to make someone jump through a useless hoop, that's why I was wondering what strict meant.

 

[BVS]

In MA, we don't need an ID to vote, and frankly I think that is preposterous. Somebody who knows my name and address could go and vote saying they were me if they get to the polls before I do.



I can't understand the hue and cry over asking for proof that someone is who they claim to be before they vote.

Like you say, folks without a license can get a state ID card, my mother never had a driver's license her entire life, always had a MA state ID.



How do folks get on an airplane without an ID these days (I know not everyone flies)? If you are an adult, I don't think being required to have some form of official identification is infringing on anyone's civil rights.

I agree. Except what do you tell those elderly or living in poverty? Yes voting is your right, but you have to pay for it. It may not seem like a lot, but to some it is. If we require it, shouldn't the ID be a right as well?

My 95 year old grandma doesn't have an ID ever since we took away her car 10 years ago. She still lives on her own. She's never needed one, she's sweet and old so no one questions who she is, or if she's legal age


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[LuckyNumber7]

I agree. Except what do you tell those elderly or living in poverty? Yes voting is your right, but you have to pay for it. It may not seem like a lot, but to some it is. If we require it, shouldn't the ID be a right as well?

My 95 year old grandma doesn't have an ID ever since we took away her car 10 years ago. She still lives on her own. She's never needed one, she's sweet and old so no one questions who she is, or if she's legal age


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Sounds like the prime candidate to be the victim of identity theft for voting.

 

[Hewson]

I agree. Except what do you tell those elderly or living in poverty? Yes voting is your right, but you have to pay for it. It may not seem like a lot, but to some it is. If we require it, shouldn't the ID be a right as well?

My 95 year old grandma doesn't have an ID ever since we took away her car 10 years ago. She still lives on her own. She's never needed one, she's sweet and old so no one questions who she is, or if she's legal age


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I see there are some circumstances that are tricky. Your Grandma should be able to get a state ID. Like I said, my mother had one until the day she passed, they don't expire like a license, (at least in MA) so it cost her a one time fee of whatever it was like $30.00.

As for the extremely poor, there should be a provision for the Gov't to provide them a free ID.
Many of them manage to get their government assistance somehow, I assume that requires some proof of who you are (honestly don't know).

Obviously no perfect answer, but as I said before I don't find asking an adult to prove who they are or how old they are before voting, buying liquor, buying a lottery ticket, boarding a plane etc. etc. is that much of a civil rights infringement.

 

[anitram]

Something Irvine has said is really ringing true with me.

There are many of us who are in the white, privileged, professional class, living pretty well off with a number of assets liquid and otherwise who have historically voted essentially against our own financial self-interest in the name of the greater good. In the last election I voted for the party who took away income splitting from us, who took away our childcare monthly benefits (which used to be flat for all children regardless of income), who took away our ability to claim certain child expenses (sports for example) and who increased taxes on both my husband and myself. And I did it because I felt that was still best for the country.

But you know if these low information voters who actually benefit from such things don't want them and instead want to keep voting for people who are making those of us who are already well off richer, maybe it's time we pack it in and help them out. We'll get off like bandits while they pat themselves on the back for sticking it to the elites by voting for reality TV stars.

 

[BVS]

Now there were examples in the article about preposterous situations like the Minn license not being enough. That kinda stuff is clearly just trying to make someone jump through a useless hoop, that's why I was wondering what strict meant.

I always hate posting "voter intimidation" stories because often they're so anecdotal or heresy, but there was a man arrested in the town where I went to college. Often times in college it's not your permanent address, you might be from out of state, etc, so there's additional paperwork in order to vote. But this man would approach women and minorities and turn them away if they didn't have a state dl, which is not mandatory if you have other forms of id. Some students who knew their rights eventually turned him in, but there's no telling how many got frustrated and just left.

Apparently there were other campuses that had similar stories.


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[BVS]

I see there are some circumstances that are tricky. Your Grandma should be able to get a state ID. Like I said, my mother had one until the day she passed, they don't expire like a license, (at least in MA) so it cost her a one time fee of whatever it was like $30.00.

Oh she could, but like she told me, I've never had the need.


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[Hewson]

But you know if these low information voters who actually benefit from such things don't want them and instead want to keep voting for people who are making those of us who are already well off richer, maybe it's time we pack it in and help them out. We'll get off like bandits while they pat themselves on the back for sticking it to the elites by voting for reality TV stars.

So are we to assume that 59 Million plus folks are all "low information voters"?

That's painting with a very broad and condescending brush.
You talk of being well off and voting to help others. That's a great outlook, but certainly not indicative of how most Americans can and do vote.

There are reports that many of the middle America Trump voters are just the opposite, not well off, struggling as jobs disappear. They chose to vote for the candidate that they believe presented ideas that might bring some form of prosperity back to their regions, their industries.
Whether that ends up coming to fruition of course remains to be seen, but how so many people are faulting these folks for voting for someone they think may help better their personal situations is disheartening.

Just here on this site, folks are excoriating all Trump voters as racist and misogynist and worse. Do we really think 60 million people all fall into that basket?
His message resonated with a large group of folks who have been overlooked in recent years. Oregoropa was right about this, not many saw it coming (certainly not me), but it happened. Hillary preached "more of the same" and these folks who are struggling don't want that, so they took a shot at something different. I can't fault anyone for thinking that way.

I said all along I disliked both candidates. Now Trump has been elected. I am willing to wait and see how things go, and I would have had the same outlook with Hillary. Maybe Trump will be the unmitigated disaster some expect, maybe not.
Time to accept the result and try and move forward, stop calling each other names.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

While I'm a thousand times more critical of Trump than Hewson, and I still happily will say to friends and foes that your votes for Trump mean you were either conned or you're prejudiced, I still agree 100% that it's time to move on. Forward thinking only. Liberals, start rallying for 2018. There's elected officials in office that represent you. Both republican and democrat. They're going to try their best to stop some of the maniacal things Trump wants to do. Until then, focus your energy on how to be active and on who to support to dethrone the nuts from congress.

 

[anitram]

There are reports that many of the middle America Trump voters are just the opposite, not well off, struggling as jobs disappear. They chose to vote for the candidate that they believe presented ideas that might bring some form of prosperity back to their regions, their industries.
Whether that ends up coming to fruition of course remains to be seen, but how so many people are faulting these folks for voting for someone they think may help better their personal situations is disheartening.

If you believe that your job and prosperity are coming back because Trump is going to resurrect the coal industry which has been trounced by natural gas and which is NEVER coming back because it makes zero economic sense not to mention environmental impacts, and if you believe that your job and prosperity are coming back because Trump is going to tear up NAFTA and all the car manufacturers are coming back then you are a low information voter.

Do you remember when John McCain said 8 years ago that these jobs are not coming back and basically lost the Republican support in the rust belt almost immediately? Do you think that he didn't care for these people or do you think that he was presenting them with the facts and reality?

There has to be a new way of looking at these things. Automation is destiny and a lot of the American heartland will have to go through a lot of pain, as it has been for a while. The best and really only hope is massive investment in infrastructure and re-training to adapt to a the realities of a new economy. I'm not saying the Democrats have done anything valuable in this respect at all, but at a minimum they are not lying to those people by telling them that coal is back on day 1 of the presidency and that NAFTA is gone and that these jobs are coming back. Do you not see just how patently absurd that is?

People willing to believe this are willfully blind because they don't care to inform themselves on economic realities. If you had a subset of the population insisting on bringing back the telegram because the internet hadn't done much for them, would you think that it's reasonable strategy for them to follow a conman who promises the telegram will be back tomorrow? I mean this is what we are dealing with here.

 

[gump]

It still is hugely difficult to cope, but I made a few decisions about what to do next:
1. Not be complacent. Call out casual racism, sexism or xenophobia where I see it. Even the old uncle that only shows up for Christmas.
2. Engage. Donate. Volunteer to anti-discrimination and civil rights organizations. We can't take any of the good parts about our lives for granted.
3. Be more kind to people, especially people that are different than me.
4. Stop watching CNN and other news networks that contributed to the Trump phenomenon.
5. Continue to pay to a subscription of a newspaper.
6. Support the arts, and protest art in particular.
7. Get a puppy.

Sorry if that sounds silly, but it's a start for me.



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[Salome]

Just here on this site, folks are excoriating all Trump voters as racist and misogynist and worse.

I don't think all the Trump voters are racists and misogynists, but Trump's 'message' throughout the campaign was definitely filled with racism and misogyny.

Now Trump has been elected. I am willing to wait and see how things go, and I would have had the same outlook with Hillary. Maybe Trump will be the unmitigated disaster some expect, maybe not.

In many ways it is irrelevant how "The Trump Experiment" will work out. The fact that a campaign littered with racism, misogyny and a ton of lies can apparently lead to the presidency of the USA is frightening. It begs the question where the line is drawn of what is considered acceptable/unacceptable. Half of the stuff Trump has said would get you fired from your job (and rightfully so), but apparently it doesn't stop you from getting the most important job on the planet.
It's incomprehensible.

 

[Oregoropa]

4. Stop watching CNN



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[BVS]

So are we to assume that 59 Million plus folks are all "low information voters"?



That's painting with a very broad and condescending brush.

You talk of being well off and voting to help others. That's a great outlook, but certainly not indicative of how most Americans can and do vote.



There are reports that many of the middle America Trump voters are just the opposite, not well off, struggling as jobs disappear. They chose to vote for the candidate that they believe presented ideas that might bring some form of prosperity back to their regions, their industries.

Whether that ends up coming to fruition of course remains to be seen, but how so many people are faulting these folks for voting for someone they think may help better their personal situations is disheartening.



Just here on this site, folks are excoriating all Trump voters as racist and misogynist and worse. Do we really think 60 million people all fall into that basket?

His message resonated with a large group of folks who have been overlooked in recent years. Oregoropa was right about this, not many saw it coming (certainly not me), but it happened. Hillary preached "more of the same" and these folks who are struggling don't want that, so they took a shot at something different. I can't fault anyone for thinking that way.



I said all along I disliked both candidates. Now Trump has been elected. I am willing to wait and see how things go, and I would have had the same outlook with Hillary. Maybe Trump will be the unmitigated disaster some expect, maybe not.

Time to accept the result and try and move forward, stop calling each other names.

Do I think they're all racist, misogynistic, morons? No.

I don't necessarily think low information means uneducated or moronic.

I think you can be highly educated and still low information. I think low information people are the people that consciously choose to isolate themselves with media outlets and news that fits their worldview. They question any outlet that will paint a different picture, but will accept any email forward or piece of heresy they find on the internet as gospel.

And I do believe a large portion of his voters fit in here. I have college educated folks on my Facebook feed that still believe Obama is a Muslim and that Clinton was on her deathbed as she emailed the attackers and told them about Benghazi.

This information isolationism is what made Trump, there was a reason he was in bed with Breitbart.


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