Mad Men II: A Man For All Seasons

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Irvine511 said:
it seemed all the characters got what they wanted -- love for Peggy, total autonomy for Joan
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While the Peggy/Stan thing was disappointingly cheesy, I do like that Peggy and Joan got what they wanted without having to be anything other than who they are.
 
I'd like to nominate that clown Joan was with this season as the biggest douchebag of the entire series.
 
Did he ever end up getting his partnership? I don't think so - it was about to happen when Sterling and co. sold out to McCann, right?
 
Jon Hamm's interpretation > armchair experts:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/18/mad-men-finale-jon-hamm-interview

My take is that, the next day, he wakes up in this beautiful place, and has this serene moment of understanding, and realizes who he is. And who he is, is an advertising man. And so, this thing comes to him. There’s a way to see it in a completely cynical way, and say, “Wow, that’s awful.” But I think that for Don, it represents some kind of understanding and comfort in this incredibly unquiet, uncomfortable life that he has led.
 
I actually like that it's loose enough that that ending could be a symbolic or meta moment of some sort... I mean to say that he may well go back to New York and that's the famous ad, and he's the one who pitched it...

but

I also think it may be that McCann (who of course produced the actual campaign) wouldn't have him back even if he begged at this point (he pretty much walked out the door, and this is not Sterling Cooper anymore), and that the allusion can be looser.


It's a real 'Playboy Mansion' of a closer. Simultaneously could be as fake and empty as hell, and still have this core of transcendence or epiphany also.
 
The only thing that could have made the fade out even more perfect would be if Bert Cooper was one of the people on the hillside singing. Hippie Bert Cooper.








Not really.
 
iron yuppie said:
I'd like to nominate that clown Joan was with this season as the biggest douchebag of the entire series.
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My other major problem with the episode. Such a boring, two-dimensional character. Joan's arc could have been concluded without such a stubborn hack who was never believable. When you compare the half-baked supporting characters this season with someone like Rachel Menken, or even the unfairly maligned Bobbie Barrett (who has a crucial role in one of my favourite episodes that doesn't get mentioned that often: The New Girl in season 2), it's miles and miles away in terms of convincing love interests with clearly defined motivations. I can't say Joan's rapist doctor was a layered character, but his sliminess seemed authentic. Which is something I can't say for Bruce Greenwood's character, who was all over the place.

On the positive side, I have to mention the wonderful conclusion to the Peggy/Pete relationship. Vincent Kartheiser's amazing delivery of "No one's ever said that to me" really brings that character around. No more childish insecurities and low blows. This is a guy who was pushed first and foremost by his ambition and secondly by talent, and he admits it as much without any sign of bitterness or jealousy. Who would know that this blackmailing weasel from season one would turn out to be mature and sympathetic in the finale? I wish the Peggy/Stan thing was resolved in such a wonderfully subtle way as this did, which was Mad Men at its best.
 
djerdap said:
My other major problem with the episode. Such a boring, two-dimensional character. Joan's arc could have been concluded without such a stubborn hack who was never believable.
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He seemed realistic to me: the guy who has had a little business success and consequently believes the whole world should bow to his whims and general worldview. That type of dude is still around today. He's a total ass but still a believable character. What Joan ever saw in him is a different story.
 
djerdap said:
My other major problem with the episode. Such a boring, two-dimensional character. Joan's arc could have been concluded without such a stubborn hack who was never believable. When you compare the half-baked supporting characters this season with someone like Rachel Menken, or even the unfairly maligned Bobbie Barrett (who has a crucial role in one of my favourite episodes that doesn't get mentioned that often: The New Girl in season 2), it's miles and miles away in terms of convincing love interests with clearly defined motivations. I can't say Joan's rapist doctor was a layered character, but his sliminess seemed authentic. Which is something I can't say for Bruce Greenwood's character, who was all over the place.

On the positive side, I have to mention the wonderful conclusion to the Peggy/Pete relationship. Vincent Kartheiser's amazing delivery of "No one's ever said that to me" really brings that character around. No more childish insecurities and low blows. This is a guy who was pushed first and foremost by his ambition and secondly by talent, and he admits it as much without any sign of bitterness or jealousy. Who would know that this blackmailing weasel from season one would turn out to be mature and sympathetic in the finale? I wish the Peggy/Stan thing was resolved in such a wonderfully subtle way as this did, which was Mad Men at its best.
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It is funny how, of all characters, Pete ended up how he did. Not even that he became a hero or anything close to that, but he went from widely loathed to somewhat respectable by the end. They really did lay out a foundation for him being a decent guy by the end with his last few scenes.
 
Unseen by the viewers, Harry Crane's sendoff is that he leaves Peggy's office, steps into an empty elevator shaft due to a malfunction, and plunges to his death.
 
PhilsFan said:
It is funny how, of all characters, Pete ended up how he did. Not even that he became a hero or anything close to that, but he went from widely loathed to somewhat respectable by the end. They really did lay out a foundation for him being a decent guy by the end with his last few scenes.
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Pete's arc has been my favorite. From blackmailing weasel to pretty self-aware, decent person. His final scene with Peggy was perfect, and the grace with which he complimented her and then doubled down by saying he had never received such praise was wonderful.

Plus, he had the best line of the last season "The King ordered it!"

Lastly, Kieran, that's the best one line of fan fiction ever. Amen.
 
A great Harry moment was him taking $1100 from Roger to swap offices with Pete and then going "Alright, but you're gonna owe me."


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
No spoken words said:
Pete's arc has been my favorite. From blackmailing weasel to pretty self-aware, decent person. His final scene with Peggy was perfect, and the grace with which he complimented her and then doubled down by saying he had never received such praise was wonderful.

Plus, he had the best line of the last season "The King ordered it!"

Lastly, Kieran, that's the best one line of fan fiction ever. Amen.
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As Harry lies broken and bleeding at the bottom, ghost Bert Cooper informs him that the best things in life are free.
 
Best Roger line of the episode: 'I'm getting married. She's a friend of Megan Draper's. Actually she's old enough to be her mother. Actually she is her mother."
 
Harry eating Pete's cookies in his final scene was pretty funny.

Another contender for a classic Roger line after Joan asks him is everthing OK: "For the time being... but I am getting married."
 
Weiner's supposed only post-finale interview happened tonight. And he very much strikes down a primarily cynical reading of the final moments with the Coke ad and Don's state of mind. I transcribed this and it's a little rambling grammar-wise but I think his position and intentions are quite clear:


I did hear rumblings of people talking about the ad being corny, and it’s a little bit disturbing to me, again back to this sort of cynicism (mentioned earlier): I’m not saying advertising’s not corny, but the people who find that ad corny are kind of, they’re probably experiencing a lot of life that way and they’re missing out on something—five years before that black people and white people couldn’t even be in an ad together—and the idea that some enlightened state—and not just co-option—might have created something that is very pure. And yeah, there’s soda in there with the good feeling, but that ad to me is the best ad ever made, and it comes from a very good place—which is a desire to sell Coca-Cola, probably—but you shouldn’t write everything off…the ambiguous relationship we have with advertising is part of why I did the show…we still have some kind of superiority to it or contempt for it and I’m not…here to advocate for more advertising…but I felt like that ad in particular is so much of its time, so beautiful, and I don’t think as…villainous as the snark of today thinks it is.
 
It's difficult for me to imagine people today viewing that commercial as corny or in such a cynical light but maybe you had to be there at the time (which I was). I actually got goosebumps when it came on because I had forgotten all about it, and like so many Mad Men songs that ended the show, I just broke out in a huge smile.
 
joyfulgirl said:
It's difficult for me to imagine people today viewing that commercial as corny or in such a cynical light but maybe you had to be there at the time (which I was). I actually got goosebumps when it came on because I had forgotten all about it, and like so many Mad Men songs that ended the show, I just broke out in a huge smile.
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Yeah, like I had posted earlier, I immediately cracked up laughing at that point, and it was not in a cynical way at all. It's funny, I remember that commercial or at least the coke jingle with perfect clarity, but the original ad broke before I turned one, so, not sure if the ad just ran for years, if newer versions ran or what…..
 
I laughed because I called the show ending on a commercial. The spot was perplexing for a few seconds and then it sunk in what they were doing with it.

If I had known that McCann made the spot, my initial reaction probably would have been more cynical. Instead, I felt it was a successful aesthetic fusion of Don's past and present and on further reflection I really like the ending.
 
i still see something slightly insidious about the ad itself. Coke is, on average, a bad thing. of course it's enjoyed in moderation, and of course it's a popular drink that lots of people like, and it is nice to see, in the commercial, all the races and cultures singing the equivalent of "It's a Small World After All."

but Coke is still a sugary product laced with caffeine to make it addictive and with serious health side effects, especially diabetes and obesity.

i can see the moment as redemptive for Don himself, that he's now looking forward and infusing his work with hippie values of inclusion and harmony rather than nostalgia and inadequacy, but his profession itself is sill suspect, and it is still co-opting these values in the service of pushing a product that has more in common with the cigarette than not.

I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to buy the world some smokes
And keep it company
That's the real thing.
 
I think there's a knowing smirk to the ending because it is, after all, the co-opting of the counterculture to push product to the straight world, but I don't think "insidious" is the right word. I don't see McCann as "winning" or that Don somehow lost his freedom by returning to his medium. There is a symbiotic relationship here between creativity and commerce, but it's one that I believe Don is ultimately aware of.

I tend to err on the side of the ending being a happy one, albeit somewhat bittersweet. It wouldn't be Mad Men if the ending were that simple.
 
LemonMelon said:
I think there's a knowing smirk to the ending because it is, after all, the co-opting of the counterculture to push product to the straight world, but I don't think "insidious" is the right word. I don't see McCann as "winning" or that Don somehow lost his freedom by returning to his medium. There is a symbiotic relationship here between creativity and commerce, but it's one that I believe Don is ultimately aware of.

I tend to err on the side of the ending being a happy one, albeit somewhat bittersweet. It wouldn't be Mad Men if the ending were that simple.
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All of this.
 
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