Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here (AKA New Album Speculation)

[JamietheEdgefan]

Can you explain how CT was "safe", and which hit did it take its formula from?

To me it sounded safe. The main chorus riff is the classic Edge riff - if you play it on guitar, it's identical to WOWY, Ultraviolet, Mercy etc (albeit in different keys). It's the classic Edge delay-chime sound, with Bono's cheesy 00's optimism lyrics, in an album full of tunes like MoS, NLOTH, WaS, FBB, with much darker or abstract lyrics. Yet they went with the familiar sound for the single.

That, to me, is safe - it's what i'd do if i wanted to guarantee a hit out of those albums. Pre-release, if i was told to choose a single that would sell best, based on the 00's success of tunes like BD and CoBL, i'd say CT is a lot safer than MoS.

U2 are a very reactive band, so i'd guess that they won't do a similar thing for the next album. They won't go with a song just because it has a familiar sound that sold well in the past. Sure, they might do if the song is good enough, but i'd bet that they are making entirely different songs now.

 

[ozeeko]

Let's look into the future shall we?

BVS: You still haven't answered my question. How is it "safe"? What exactly makes a song "safe?"

JamietheEdgefan: It's just my opinion. Can we move on?

BVS: First answer the question. How is CT a "safe" song?

JamietheEdgefan: Look, I just think CT and Boots sound familiar to past U2 songs. Okay? For one thing, the riffs of Boots and Vertigo are strikingly similar.

BVS: Clearly you know nothing about music. Have you ever studied music theory? They are not the same riffs.

JamietheEdgefan: I didn't say they were exactly the same!! Just that they "sound" similar. What's your problem?

BVS: Can you please explain to me how they "sound" similar?

JamietheEdgefan: Nothing I say is going to convince you. What's the point of this?

BVS: Can't two people talk? No need to get all defensive.

JamietheEdgefan: I'm done with you. I came here to discuss U2 and all you want to do is fight.

BVS: You're the one who made this personal. Grow up.

MOD: Guys, take it outside.

BVS:

JamietheEdgefan:

THE END

 

[topplehatU2]

There are probably few people who would disagree that CT is U2 by the numbers.

Really? I like the song, but it's nothing new for the band.

 

[BVS]

There are probably few people who would disagree that CT is U2 by the numbers.

I always hear it, but then when I ask no one ever answers, so how is it U2 by numbers?

 

[Jive Turkey]

Really? I like the song, but it's nothing new for the band.

I think you're misreading my post. I agree with you on your second point

I always hear it, but then when I ask no one ever answers, so how is it U2 by numbers?

What does it for me is the nondescript guitar playing from Edge. At least with a song like Beautiful Day, which could also be described as by the numbers, you could hum the guitar riff to me and I'd recognize it. CT's guitar is more or less just delay drenched arpeggio with little or no character. Hum the guitar melody to yourself right now without listening to the song. I can't do it, can you? It's just such an uninspired piece of music with the tried and true digital delay tacked on to try and salvage something out of nothing

 

[BVS]

To me it sounded safe. The main chorus riff is the classic Edge riff - if you play it on guitar, it's identical to WOWY, Ultraviolet, Mercy etc (albeit in different keys). It's the classic Edge delay-chime sound, with Bono's cheesy 00's optimism lyrics, in an album full of tunes like MoS, NLOTH, WaS, FBB, with much darker or abstract lyrics. Yet they went with the familiar sound for the single.

Yet how many were calling Ultraviolet a "safe" song back in the day, or even classic Edge riff?

And the whole optimistic vs "darker" lyrics argument has to be squashed it's 90's complainer by numbers... First of all there are plenty of hits out there with "darker" lyrics so I can't see how one is safer than the other. Secondly I think it's a misunderstood lyric, but we've already had this discussion.

 

[KEVIN051269]

Let's look into the future shall we?

BVS: You still haven't answered my question. How is it "safe"? What exactly makes a song "safe?"

JamietheEdgefan: It's just my opinion. Can we move on?

BVS: First answer the question. How is CT a "safe" song?

JamietheEdgefan: Look, I just think CT and Boots sound familiar to past U2 songs. Okay? For one thing, the riffs of Boots and Vertigo are strikingly similar.

BVS: Clearly you know nothing about music. Have you ever studied music theory? They are not the same riffs.

JamietheEdgefan: I didn't say they were exactly the same!! Just that they "sound" similar. What's your problem?

BVS: Can you please explain to me how they "sound" similar?

JamietheEdgefan: Nothing I say is going to convince you. What's the point of this?

BVS: Can't two people talk? No need to get all defensive.

JamietheEdgefan: I'm done with you. I came here to discuss U2 and all you want to do is fight.

BVS: You're the one who made this personal. Grow up.

MOD: Guys, take it outside.

BVS:

JamietheEdgefan:

THE END

 

[doctorwho]

I always hear it, but then when I ask no one ever answers, so how is it U2 by numbers?

Does CT means "Crazy Tonight"? If so, here is why *I* feel the song is a bit "safe".

One has to define "safe", first. In this context, "safe" will mean a song that could be a hit single due to mainstream accessibility. "Safe" will also mean a song that wasn't really a creative stretch for U2.

CT has a soft rock sound (the album version, not the remix done in concert). Softer rock tends to appeal more to the mainstream public.

When I listen to CT, it does not sound like much of a creative stretch for U2. It's a simple concept and a fairly simple arrangement. There's nothing wrong with simple. But the song sounds similar to work U2 have done in the past. And from that aspect, it appears to be more "safe".

What was brave, though, was U2 performing the remixed version of the song in concert. While Headache hates it, I feel it's one of the highlights of the show. But I digress...

I allow U2 some "safety" with songs like CT as they were done in an attempt to create interest in the album. The non-single tracks, while outstanding, were not perceived to be commercially appealing. U2 walks that fine line - trying to be creative, while still appealing to the masses. At times they hit it, at times they do not. Still, given the brilliance of MOS, NLOTH, Breathe and even Magnificent (yes, I know it's classic U2, but I still love it), I can more than forgive some "safe" tracks written to generate interest.

The irony here is that NLOTH's non-single tracks are far more interesting. And given the lower sales of NLOTH, perhaps the time was right for U2 to avoid "safe". One wonders if NLOTH would have actually succeeded more with "Breathe" and MOS as singles.

 

[BVS]

What does it for me is the nondescript guitar playing from Edge. At least with a song like Beautiful Day, which could also be described as by the numbers, you could hum the guitar riff to me and I'd recognize it. CT's guitar is more or less just delay drenched arpeggio with little or no character. Hum the guitar melody to yourself right now without listening to the song. I can't do it, can you? It's just such an uninspired piece of music with the tried and true digital delay tacked on to try and salvage something out of nothing

Maybe this board just has a different definition of "by numbers" because I never understood the BD is U2 by numbers argument. I can't see BD fitting on any previous U2 album. Nor can I think of any song in their catalog that it sounds like.

To me the fact that the arpeggios just fall into the background and don't create the melody is exactly one of the reasons it's not U2 by numbers. To me the song is made by the "jangly" 12 string 60's pop feel to it, something U2 hasn't done a lot of... plus the wordy chorus is by no means a safe guarantee way to go.

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

Yet how many were calling Ultraviolet a "safe" song back in the day, or even classic Edge riff?

And the whole optimistic vs "darker" lyrics argument has to be squashed it's 90's complainer by numbers... First of all there are plenty of hits out there with "darker" lyrics so I can't see how one is safer than the other. Secondly I think it's a misunderstood lyric, but we've already had this discussion.

It is a classic Edge riff, but it also wasn't a lead single. Those honours went to songs that were bigger stretches from their predecessors. Sure, CT might have been chosen because u2 thought it was a good song in itself (i wouldn't know, i assure you i don't think i can read minds or into the future ), but i'd guess that they chose it based on the success of and its similarity to it's 00's predecessors. Interesting choice, considering songs like MoS and NLOTH represent the album as a whole more honestly.

Sure there are hits with darker lyrics, but the 00's u2 hits had much more optimistic lyrics. CT's lyrics seem to reflect ATYCLB and Bomb's mood more than NLOTH. Of course, if you think CT's lyrics are something else, then good for you! To me, well... i actually kind of like CT (even if i do think it's safe), but the lyrics ruin it for me for being to sickly sweet.

Also, ozeeko:

 

[Jive Turkey]

Maybe this board just has a different definition of "by numbers" because I never understood the BD is U2 by numbers argument. I can't see BD fitting on any previous U2 album. Nor can I think of any song in their catalog that it sounds like.

To me the fact that the arpeggios just fall into the background and don't create the melody is exactly one of the reasons it's not U2 by numbers. To me the song is made by the "jangly" 12 string 60's pop feel to it, something U2 hasn't done a lot of... plus the wordy chorus is by no means a safe guarantee way to go.

If I put a delay on my guitar and start strumming or playing arpeggio, everyone in the room will tell me it sounds like U2. They've been doing it for ages and stick to it far too often

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

The irony here is that NLOTH's non-single tracks ae far more interesting. And given the lower sales of NLOTH, perhaps the time was right for U2 to avoid "safe". One wonders if NLOTH would have actually succeeded more with "Breathe" and MOS as singles.

I agree with this, and it goes back to my original point, which was that considering u2 chose songs like Boots and CT as singles, considering they flopped, and considering they are a reactive band, i would guess the next album won't have such safe singles.
They'll be more unexpected, more vivid, and i bet we'll all love 'em

 

[doctorwho]

Maybe this board just has a different definition of "by numbers" because I never understood the BD is U2 by numbers argument. I can't see BD fitting on any previous U2 album. Nor can I think of any song in their catalog that it sounds like.

To me the fact that the arpeggios just fall into the background and don't create the melody is exactly one of the reasons it's not U2 by numbers. To me the song is made by the "jangly" 12 string 60's pop feel to it, something U2 hasn't done a lot of... plus the wordy chorus is by no means a safe guarantee way to go.

I agree with this. BD wasn't necessarily "safe". After a decade of this supposed "irony", U2 went in a different direction.

However, I think some call it "safe" as it has a "classic" U2 feel to it, even if it wouldn't really flow on any other U2 album. It's an optimistic track (reminds one of U2's 80's music) with some classic Edge sounds (even if they were new). Even the band saw this.

But as Bono and Edge stated, what's wrong with U2 sounding like U2?

While U2 sounding songs aren't always huge hits, those who like that style will be more receptive to it. For example "Magnificent" may not have been a huge hit on the U.S. charts, but it is the most downloaded iTunes song from NLOTH. There's a reason for that. U2 are successful because of their unique sound. And I guess for some fans, BD felt like U2 tapping into what they knew would work as opposed to venturing into something new.

Of course, what that something "new" is becomes debatable.

 

[BVS]

It is a classic Edge riff, but it also wasn't a lead single. Those honours went to songs that were bigger stretches from their predecessors. Sure, CT might have been chosen because u2 thought it was a good song in itself (i wouldn't know, i assure you i don't think i can read minds or into the future ), but i'd guess that they chose it based on the success of and its similarity to it's 00's predecessors. Interesting choice, considering songs like MoS and NLOTH represent the album as a whole more honestly.

Well CT wasn't a lead single either.

I agree NLOTH would have been a nice choice, but everyone knows MOS is just too long... my fave song on the album, but not single material.

 

[ozeeko]

I'll play.

Most of NLOTH songs have Bono singing from a character's POV. In CT, it is entirely Bono's POV. Bono, the AIDS guy, the politician, the humanitarian, the Messiah!!! And the lyrics are incredibly uplifting, a sharp contrast to the other songs.

Not saying there isn't any room for optimism. I think "Soon" would've been a more effective optimistic track on the album.

CT is stuck in 2004, mood-wise. It's the lost single from BOMB. And no, it doesn't sound like Vertigo, or Sometimes You Can't Make It, or All Because of You...but then again neither did those 3 songs sound like eachother!!! But they are bound together by some aura, some mood, some feel...they feel like they belong together. CT sounds like it fits in with HTDAAB. It's far too optimistic and far too BONO for NLOTH.

Does that make CT a safe choice for a single? No. I think it makes CT a STUPID choice for a single!

 

[Rachel D.]

Aaaand we're off topic again. What a tremendous surprise!

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

Well CT wasn't a lead single either.

I agree NLOTH would have been a nice choice, but everyone knows MOS is just too long... my fave song on the album, but not single material.

It still was a single though.
MoS is my favourite too, and i agree it was definitely not single material. In fact, i don't think the album was 'hit material' at all - if they wanted hits, they should have released a more Bomb-esque album as a farewell to the 00's, and released a jazzed up, uncompromised NLOTH - minus the 'middle 3' songs, plus EBW - as a side project.

ozeeko - that's kinda my point, what U2 (probably) consider safe, isn't actually a sure bet anymore. And that's a really good thing - it suggests we'll get a very new style with the next release.

 

[ozeeko]

The thing is, U2 just failed at writing a good hit song. I don't think NLOTH (the song)would've been a big hit. For one thing, there's barely a chorus. MOS, while being possibly the best track, isn't a hit song. Maybe in 1994, but today? Are you kidding me? SUC....I don't even want to think about it. Breathe, I don't think it's an exciting song at all. But that's just me.

 

[Registered Dude]

you can't predict a hit.. Beautiful Day doesn't have anymore of a chorus than CT does

 

[roy]

you can't predict a hit.. Beautiful Day doesn't have anymore of a chorus than CT does

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

That's true - as i said in another post, i don't think the album is hit material at all. Most of the songs are sonic explorations, not radio fodder, and those songs that are more accessible are too contrived, and aren't actually very good (imo).

 

[Jive Turkey]

you can't predict a hit.. Beautiful Day doesn't have anymore of a chorus than CT does

You can't predict a hit, but if you can't tell a great song from a mediocre one, then you aren't listening closely enough.

The chorus to BD is so different than anything they, or anyone else for that matter, have done. The background vocals are unique to BD and BD alone. The first time I heard it, I knew it would be huge as I'm sure many others did

 

[Jive Turkey]

Aaaand we're off topic again. What a tremendous surprise!

At least there is some substance to what we're talking about now

 

[BVS]

Crazy Tonight is about someone trying to take on everything.

He's thinking about her, he's thinking about the state of the union, he's thinking about his family, but for one moment he just wants to forget about them all, be selfish and let go. Yeah he tells them it's going to be alright at the end but for the moment he just wants to leave all of that behind.

 

[Jive Turkey]

It's hard to put your finger on, but Beautiful Day just sounds inspired. It's got many parts, many sounds going on, each section stands out. A killer riff, awesome backing vocals. It feels like a song that has always been. Crazy Tonight sounds like they were trying to recapture the magic, but failed. There isn't anything unique. Nothing gives you chills. It sounds like ideas weren't coming to them and it feels flat

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Crazy Tonight has only one issue, one problem: that it is unimaginably dull. Historically bland.

The lyrics should have given them better ideas for it too. The verse's, whatever. The melody passes I suppose, but then the arrangement is about at soft-rock U2 as you can get, but what can you do. Can't really complain about that, because it is, almost by design, completely inoffensive. Then you launch into this 00s-Bono-optimistic-simplistic-built-for-stadium-yawn chorus, which is all so overblown when you pay attention to what the song is about. And then, the Will.i.Am suggested central hook, so nakedly just tacked on there via that late suggestion, no creative thought given to it whatsoever.

So boring. Given the lyrics, it could have suggested something a bit fun, or a bit wild, or a bit edgy, but instead I'd pretty much rank it as the most uninspired, bland thing they've ever done. By some margin.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Beautiful Day thumps every other single this decade. It's a notch above in songwriting. A near perfect pop-rock single.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Beautiful Day thumps every other single this decade. It's a notch above in songwriting. A near perfect pop-rock single.

It's hardly pop rock but okay.

 

[corianderstem]

Do we have to bicker and debate about every effing label that anyone gives anything? That's not pop! That's not rock! That's not irony! That's not safe! That's not by-the-numbers! That's not my ass! Honestly.

I don't think Beautiful Day is all that amazing, but whatever. I know I'm in the minority on that one.

 

[BVS]

But that is my ass...

There's no mistaking that.