The real reason U2 isn't releasing any of this material
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jay canseco
War Child
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At this point, I'd even take some more Bono hype.....
What's wrong with working on a single ? Where the streets have no name reportedly took about half of the entire time of making of JT.
Like I said, one was completely changed for the live shows, and one was never a single at all. So how exactly were they supposed to $ell NLOTH ? And Boots definitely didn't do it.
Or maybe they worked on it because they weren't happy with the initial version of SUC. It wasn't about the song being a hit or not. Same goes for Vertigo, Bono wasn't comfortable with singing Native song on a nightly basis for 2 years...it wasn't about it being a hit.
U2 - and probably most bands - do this : re-write until they're happy with the songs. It would be great if all songs came as fast as Moment of surrender. Then we'd have an album in mere months. But it doesn't work like that. And if according to you there is no difference in 16 months or a few hours (SUC or MOS), then....what is the problem ? And Sometimes needed a chorus, but this is not another one of the "album Bomb vs Bomb outtakes" discussions.
I fail to see the connection between Crazy Tonight being completely reworked live and them thinking about it being a single way before the tour commenced, or them reworking it since they didn't think it would be a big single.
The one single chosen way before the tour started was probably Boots. And even if Crazy was elected "way before the tour", that still doesn't change the fact they went from playing the album version on promo tour and only playing it on the opening night of the tour, and going to a completely different, dance-style remix version for the rest of the tour because they wanted a reference to dance music at that point of the show, so once again, it had nothing to do with $elling.
The die-hards already bought NLOTH before the tour started. The casuals most likely don't care about NLOTH and/or 360 tour. So where/who is the crowd that is rushing to buy NLOTH based on the tour version of Crazy tonight ? Was there a sudden increase in sales after the tour started that we're all unaware of ? Was Crazy tonight a massive single success like BD or Vertigo ?
These days only the lead single really sells an album. And since they made that stupid choice with Boots...nothing really helped.
patternshirt170
Acrobat
I often think it's strange that they still have these unreleased, yet performed songs from 2002-2004 hanging around.. I mean, you'd think; god release them somehow, it's unlikely you're gonna improve on them 7-8 years on...
Speaking of singles; Boots and it's somewhat underwhelming performance in the UK for starters. I thought, given recent history [Vertigo, Beautiful Day and Discothéque] it was a certain for #1 or Top 3, brand new song, comeback.. etc, it got to 12. then again the initial January 2009 release had no b sides, no video, so that didn't help it... that and the alternative sources of getting the track...
Such is the way now that an act puts out a single on a Friday or a Thursday; this 'On Air, Online" policy, it loses it's punch much quicker than before, whereas in the 70s-90s the usual Monday [Tuesday], often multi format release date + video meant the single would do well, now this release a solitary MP3 on a Thursday or whenever sans video, promo or any real extras milarky means hardcore fans will lap it up because they are watching for it, the rest who don't hover online 24/7
are often or not unaware of it and only cotton on when it's lost that first week momentum and is sliding down to 28 in the chart and by then no video is gonna save your tune, that and people beyond your base might not even like it as Bwitney found out recently..
Just now it's like; quick before this leaks lets leak it officially...
Speaking of singles; Boots and it's somewhat underwhelming performance in the UK for starters. I thought, given recent history [Vertigo, Beautiful Day and Discothéque] it was a certain for #1 or Top 3, brand new song, comeback.. etc, it got to 12. then again the initial January 2009 release had no b sides, no video, so that didn't help it... that and the alternative sources of getting the track...
Such is the way now that an act puts out a single on a Friday or a Thursday; this 'On Air, Online" policy, it loses it's punch much quicker than before, whereas in the 70s-90s the usual Monday [Tuesday], often multi format release date + video meant the single would do well, now this release a solitary MP3 on a Thursday or whenever sans video, promo or any real extras milarky means hardcore fans will lap it up because they are watching for it, the rest who don't hover online 24/7
are often or not unaware of it and only cotton on when it's lost that first week momentum and is sliding down to 28 in the chart and by then no video is gonna save your tune, that and people beyond your base might not even like it as Bwitney found out recently..Just now it's like; quick before this leaks lets leak it officially...
jay canseco
War Child
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The real reason that nothing has been released is that Edge heard Roy Orbison's Ooby dooby and can't get the words out of his head.
I try!
I would really like to see the band give it a go though. I mean really just put music out there. Look at radiohead.... they put out a ton of crappy music and no good songs and people seem to like them! So even U2's duds are way better than that! look at even the worst song they've had in years... cedars (great title)... it is still very bearable and not even the worst thing ever.
All of the new material played live this tour was excellent.... so there is that as well....
I guess we have to wait though... until the end of the world.
I would really like to see the band give it a go though. I mean really just put music out there. Look at radiohead.... they put out a ton of crappy music and no good songs and people seem to like them! So even U2's duds are way better than that! look at even the worst song they've had in years... cedars (great title)... it is still very bearable and not even the worst thing ever.
All of the new material played live this tour was excellent.... so there is that as well....
I guess we have to wait though... until the end of the world.
Boy N Da Hood
Babyface
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cood b mabe da u2 wunt'n ta wate out da reseshun, lots of mofos aint able ta find themselfs jobs n shit, lots of my homies hav'n ta resort ta sling'n da rock jus ta make ends meets, could b wunse da jobs n jenk r betta u2 may hav da next beets on da radio???
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
nathan1977
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Because Bonoz liez.
As for this...
Mysterious Ways was a huge single and it was completely reworked on ZooTV (and this is what I consider to be a song completely reworked by U2, with added lyrics, added guitar solo, new intro and so on... not playing a couple of notes over a pre-recorded remix track made by Redanka).
I'm no musician, but I don't think Adam's playing the same bassline and Edge's guitar differs from the album. And Larry is not playing the same beat as recorded on the album version of the song. 3 out 4 members (Bono has some minor changes, mostly in the way he sings the verses) aren't playing the album version, why is this not a significant reworking of the song ? It went from a straightforward pop song to a dance remix.
Mysterious Ways was a huge single and it was completely reworked on ZooTV (and this is what I consider to be a song completely reworked by U2, with added lyrics, added guitar solo, new intro and so on... not playing a couple of notes over a pre-recorded remix track made by Redanka).
I'm no musician, but I don't think Adam's playing the same bassline and Edge's guitar differs from the album. And Larry is not playing the same beat as recorded on the album version of the song. 3 out 4 members (Bono has some minor changes, mostly in the way he sings the verses) aren't playing the album version, why is this not a significant reworking of the song ? It went from a straightforward pop song to a dance remix.
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Or maybe they worked on it because they weren't happy with the initial version of SUC. It wasn't about the song being a hit or not. Same goes for Vertigo, Bono wasn't comfortable with singing Native song on a nightly basis for 2 years...it wasn't about it being a hit.
U2 - and probably most bands - do this : re-write until they're happy with the songs. It would be great if all songs came as fast as Moment of surrender. Then we'd have an album in mere months. But it doesn't work like that. And if according to you there is no difference in 16 months or a few hours (SUC or MOS), then....what is the problem ? And Sometimes needed a chorus, but this is not another one of the "album Bomb vs Bomb outtakes" discussions.
I fail to see the connection between Crazy Tonight being completely reworked live and them thinking about it being a single way before the tour commenced, or them reworking it since they didn't think it would be a big single.
The one single chosen way before the tour started was probably Boots. And even if Crazy was elected "way before the tour", that still doesn't change the fact they went from playing the album version on promo tour and only playing it on the opening night of the tour, and going to a completely different, dance-style remix version for the rest of the tour because they wanted a reference to dance music at that point of the show, so once again, it had nothing to do with $elling.
The die-hards already bought NLOTH before the tour started. The casuals most likely don't care about NLOTH and/or 360 tour. So where/who is the crowd that is rushing to buy NLOTH based on the tour version of Crazy tonight ? Was there a sudden increase in sales after the tour started that we're all unaware of ? Was Crazy tonight a massive single success like BD or Vertigo ?
These days only the lead single really sells an album. And since they made that stupid choice with Boots...nothing really helped.
I find it so amusing that every single argument of yours is based on such an oversimplified and one-sided claim. Now... is it possible that they were working for so long on many songs on No Line on the Horizon - like Crazy Tonight and Stand Up Comedy - to make them both better and accessible and catchy to broader audiences, which is something they often wholeheartedly admit? Why is that so non-comprehensible? And I see no reason to be so defensive about the fact that the band would try and sell a song. I see nothing wrong with that, but if they tweak with the song too much or if they try to make it more poppy in the cheesiest way possible, then I personally have a problem with it. One example of making the song better and more accessible is the aforementioned chorus to Sometimes IMO.
There are many reasons why Native Son was discarded, not just because Bono couldn't sing 10 seconds of it on the tour. Many of these reasons can be found in various interviews they did, including that Native Son didn't change "room's temperatures". Take from that what you will.
Nice to see you avoided a couple of things I've stated - Crazy Tonight, the album version, was released as a single two months after the tour started. That alone makes your point moot. It being reworked live has nothing to do with them not trying to sell the song as a single and as a radio/internet hit (the latter being far more important nowadays). Again, nothing wrong with that. The one time they played the album version on the tour was for the purpose of making a music video for it. It wasn't a massive success, but somebody already told you before - just because it wasn't doesn't mean they didn't want it to be. Critics hyped the song up before it was released that it has the potential to be a radio anthem and band members stated it was an "unabashed pop song". Well, it didn't pick up.
The casuals most likely don't care about 360? Isn't that interesting, since I see a whole lot of casuals going to concerts...
The claim that only lead single sells the album today is again oversimplified and ridiculous. Especially since the single format is dying. Sure, a lot of cases do show that the lead single carries the album. But what would be the point of releasing more singles if this was the one and only truth? Dozens of examples only in the last couple of years prove you wrong - the revolting Use Somebody that brought major success to Kings of Leon in the U.S., Coldplay's Viva La Vida, The National's Apartment Story, LCD Soundsystem's All My Friends (now their most recognizable song) - all very successful second singles, more so than what came out before. Arcade Fire's Rebellion (Lies) is their most successful single of Funeral, and it was the fourth one released... Wake Up, one of their most famous songs, was the fifth single. Et cetera, et cetera...
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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It is a significant reworking. Hence, a remix. Edge is playing the guitar parts from it. I just don't consider it to be a U2 rearrangement in the same sense that Mysterious Ways on ZooTV was. You do see the difference that I'm trying to make here? And Adam is actually repeating the bassline over and over again that's in the chorus in the album version.
Except Crazy Tonight and SUC are accused of being solely accessible la$t minute additions to NLOTH, to sell more copies. The argument made against those songs was never about them being better by more time being spent on the songs. Same goes for the Bomb album songs vs the outtakes.
That was the reason Native Son was discarded. Not that "Bono couldn't sing 10 seconds of it", but because he couldn't be singing it for 2 years on the road.
No one denied Crazy tonight was a single after the tour started. You seem to imply they changed the song live to sell the album, despite the band stating otherwise. And despite the fact it was the album version that went on the radio and the album version is featured in the official video. Clearly the tour audiences didn't go crazy enough for the song, or Crazy would have helped sell NLOTH. Hence the comments about the casuals not caring. So again, exactly to whom did Crazy tonight sell NLOTH ?Crazy being a pop song or critics praising it...doesn't mean the fans will pick up on it, as we can see.
Yes, lead single helps sell albums. See BD compared to other ATYCLB singles. See Vertigo compared to other singles from Bomb.
I don't think the single format is dying. It could be argued it's regained its strength with the download era...but anyway. Coldplay and KOL or Arcade Fire etc are the hottest rock bands of the past few years. Why would they not have strong singles ? And then there's the fact they're a tad younger than U2...
And the difference between U2 adding a solo, a live intro and a few extra lines and U2 inserting a remix and consequently changing what the guitar player/drummer/bass player plays live is...not much.
Both songs got reworked live.
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Native Son wasn't discarded. That rough draft of a song was re-written into Vertigo. A heck of an argument in favor of not always taking the early version of a song.
topplehatU2
Refugee
I like both versions, but I feel that Native Son wasn't quite finished anyways. It still felt a bit rough around the edges, for better or worse.
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I didn't like the lyric.
Native Son reminded me of War. the boys chickened out and emasculated the song into a song about nothing. A lot of the lyric these days is about nothing - Maybe they should call the next album Seinfeld Songs or Songs of Seinfeld.
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Except Crazy Tonight and SUC are accused of being solely accessible la$t minute additions to NLOTH, to sell more copies. The argument made against those songs was never about them being better by more time being spent on the songs. Same goes for the Bomb album songs vs the outtakes.
That was the reason Native Son was discarded. Not that "Bono couldn't sing 10 seconds of it", but because he couldn't be singing it for 2 years on the road.
Crazy being a pop song or critics praising it...doesn't mean the fans will pick up on it, as we can see.
Yes, lead single helps sell albums. See BD compared to other ATYCLB singles. See Vertigo compared to other singles from Bomb.
I don't think the single format is dying. It could be argued it's regained its strength with the download era...but anyway. Coldplay and KOL or Arcade Fire etc are the hottest rock bands of the past few years. Why would they not have strong singles ? And then there's the fact they're a tad younger than U2...
You don't seem to be understanding a word I'm saying... So let's leave it at that.
Niceman
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I have to disagree that Vertigo is a song about nothing. I don't think Bono has ever written one of those. I'd say that the meaning is a lot more primal and important than a monochrome lyric about gun control would have been....
I agree, let's leave this.
You're always twisting around arguments, plus the NLOTH singles debate is old news. We need a new album.
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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You've hit the nail on the head. For the last ten years, Bono's lyrics have been largely vacuous. A combination of being old, rich, fat and happy and unwilling to tread on anybody's toes.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
And how many times did Bono tread on anyone's toes prior to that?
does anyone think native son would have been a huge hit?
was vertigo a huge hit?
yea, i believe u2 made the right decision.
was vertigo a huge hit?
yea, i believe u2 made the right decision.
Just off the top of my head - upsetting white supremists by performing Pride even when there was a legitimate death threat against him playing that song. Being outspoken about apartheid during U2 concerts. Calling the president of France a "wanker" during a live broadcast. Lampooning Bush by calling the White House during Zoo Tv. Inviting Salman Rushdie on stage. I just think he has been more careful not to offend during the 00's. Has that diluted his lyrics? Maybe.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
None of which have anything to do with lyrics
Not directly, but indirectly? Bullet The Blue Sky was an attack on Regan's policy in South America. My point is - if Bono has made a concious decision not to "tread on toes", then that has affected his lyrical content.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
One song in all of U2's catalogue? Strong point you got there...
And that "point" is BS.
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