well if you want to be technical, the ravens are an expansion franchise with the old cleveland roster, the "cleveland browns' were deactivated as a franchise, and reinstated a few years later with a new roster.
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
That's the way they want to look at it, but really they're the same as the Colts, moved, or more like the Titans, moved and changed names. Baltimore took somebody else's team, cover it up any way they like, that's basically what happened. So they really have no room to talk.
And everyone forgets the reason that they left was not to be assholes, but because the city was trying to claim the team via emminent domain He had only been shopping the team around (as owners always do) trying to get a better deal out of Baltimore, but when they tried to take over, he got mad and desperate. He left in the middle of the night kind of like you'd hide your car from the repo man.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6309020
Now I don't deny Robert Irsay WAS an asshole, and they never won until he died
but still I think any owner would have been pissed by somebody trying to take over his team.
zoney!
ONE love, blood, life
Funny side note....there is a group of Indy fans headed to baltimore this weekend that will not be wearing Blue to support the Colts. They will be wearing green and yellow "Hogan/Mayflower" hats and T-shirts.
I guess NY and NE fans have rubbed off on the folks in the Heartland!
I guess NY and NE fans have rubbed off on the folks in the Heartland!
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Baltimore didn't take anyone's team. Cleveland lost their team. Art Model wanted a new stadium for his Browns and Cleveland wouldn't give it to him so he left. Cleveland made a bad move because the Browns had a loyal fan base and they had given new facilities to the Cavs and Indians who were not pulling in the dough like the Browns were in their shitty old stadium. At least Model was straight up with the city and told them he was leaving. Colts owner, Robert Irsay, on the other hand, snuck out of town like a thief in the night.
speedracer
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MrPryck2U said:
This happened a while ago, so I don't know exactly how all the negotiations between Cleveland and Art Modell broke down. But it is perfectly reasonable for the city not to want to have to finance the construction of a new stadium all by itself, given that the football team is going to be its primary beneficiary. A football stadium costs a hell of a lot to build, more than a baseball stadium and way more than a basketball arena.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
This happened during the 1995 season. Model saw Cleveland build the Cavs and the Indians new stadiums and wanted a piece of the pie, so he asked for one. They couldn't help him out to his satisfaction, so Model looked elsewhere. One city that had no problem giving Model a new stadium was Baltimore. Afterall, they knew what it was like to lose an NFL team, so they figured they'd let Cleveland have a taste of their misery. Well, the misery didn't last too long because, soon enough, Cleveland got an expansion team and miraculously were able to pay for a new stadium. The NFL realized that losing the Cleveland fanbase was a huge loss, so they did their best to get Cleveland a team ASAP. The Cleveland Browns have never won a Super Bowl. The Ravens won one five seasons after they left Cleveland.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
The Colts suck. They won't even make it to the Championship. 
Chargers/Bears in the superbowl, and I'll take the Bears because of their defense.
Chargers/Bears in the superbowl, and I'll take the Bears because of their defense.
zoney!
ONE love, blood, life
MrPryck2U said:
Your argument is a bit fuzzy.
You state that Baltimore would put up the money Cleveland wouldn't for a stadium. Was that private money building the stadium, or public?
If it was public money....this move is NO different than the Colts (or Rams, or Oilers/Titans, or Raiders, or Cardinals). They all had owners that ran off with their franchise to a new city after the "new" city ponied up a new stadium.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Reid's playcalling is always 50/50, McNabb seeks glory and always audibles to high risk passes in obvious running downs just to try and make the one big play like he had against Dallas a few years back on MNF to see himself on Sportscenter the next day and hope for a shot at an Espy, and an increase in salary from Campbell's for Chunky Sirloin Burger ads.toscano said:
Garcia on the other hand tries to execute the game plan at hand and wants to win.
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MrPryck2U said:
Well....not really. Art Modell repeatedly and I mean repeatedly told the city of Cleveland, the team and most importantly the fans that he would not discuss or negotiate with the city of Cleveland on a new stadium or renovations until the season was over. However, during the season Modell flew into Baltimore to have secret meetings in planes on tarmacs with officials from the city of Baltimore and state of Maryland. He made his announcement of the move in mid-season. That's not exactly being straight up in my opinion. He might as well packed trucks and moved in the middle of the night.
The kicker (no pun intended) is that the man who orchestrated the Browns move was really Al Lerner! The man who became the "new" Cleveland Browns owner. Lerner and Modell were best of friends and Lerner provided his buddy with counsel and the planes to carry out out this plan.
I believe that Modell should have just sold the Browns and worked with the NFL on bringing an expansion team to Baltimore.
Art Modell is slime in my book. Remember, this is the brilliant man who fired Paul Brown. Enough said.
CTU2fan
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Teams that skip town suck donkey balls, period.
Case in point, the Carolina Hurricanes...can take their Stanley Cup & shove it up Pete Karmanos' ass.
So yes, the Colts suck...especially their soft, choking, overrated QB. The only Colt I ever liked was Vanderjagt.
Case in point, the Carolina Hurricanes...can take their Stanley Cup & shove it up Pete Karmanos' ass.
So yes, the Colts suck...especially their soft, choking, overrated QB. The only Colt I ever liked was Vanderjagt.
toscano
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Hewson said:
I really don't think we're privy to how many of those were audibles.
In fact I believe during one of the recent telecasts that Madden or some other idiot had spoken to Reid and he told them the plan was to run more with Garcia
Give Garcia a full season with the Eagles with that 60/40 pass ratio, you have a 4-12 season.
I can't believe it's even a debate in Philly
phanan
Blue Crack Addict
Headache in a Suitcase said:looks as if the colts just arrived in baltimore...
I just saw this. Classic.
Isn't it ironic that when the Browns dressed as the Ravens moved to Baltimore, they started out playing in the same beat up old stadium the Colts had left, and one worse than the one in Cleveland they had to get away from, which wasn't that bad! They should have at least stayed put long enough to see who build a new one first. And it's totally unfair to Houston that the new expansion team didn't get to keep the name and history like Cleveland did. But the real Browns are in purple and black and living in Baltimore. The new Browns are not them. It's like if your dog dies, and you get another one just like it and give it the same name, it will never be the same dog (someone told me this, not my analogy, but it works)
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zoney! said:
Oh I forgot about the Rams! There's a connection between the Rams and the Colts, very interesting.
Actually it was Carroll Rosenbloom, and not Irsay, who owned the Colts during their 'glory years' of Unitas & co. Irsay owned the Rams. In a weird deal, Irsay and Rosenbloom swapped teams in 1972. At some point, the Colts' Super Bowl V trophy mysteriously disappeared. (there is no truth to the rumor it was left on the curb as the Mayflower pulled out) The trophy was eventually replaced by the league, I think it's at their office outside Indianapolis. The original was never found. There are rumors Rosenbloom lost it in a gambling bet and one of his old enemies has it in his house.
Rosenbloom drowned in 1979 while swimming at the beach near his house. Since he was a good swimmer, and a shady gambler, it was suspected he was dragged under and rubbed out in a 'hit'. The Rams were then inherited by his widow, Georgia Frontiere- who eventually moved the team to St. Louis.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Well, Art Model was no model citizen for sure. Of course, it was public money. He pretty much tried to force Cleveland to get him a new stadium and when that didn't work he looked for a city that would. I felt badly for the Browns' fans because they were extremely loyal to their team. But, at the very least, Model mentioned the team's departure where as Irsay didn't and escaped over night to Indy.
By the way, the Hartford Whalers sucked for years. The fans stopped going to games and as a result, nobody gave a shit when they went to Carolina.
By the way, the Hartford Whalers sucked for years. The fans stopped going to games and as a result, nobody gave a shit when they went to Carolina.
MrPryck2U said:
If he didn't get out that night, the city would have taken his team by emminent domain the next day. That's why I said it was like hiding your car from the repo man. You don't announce what you're doing and then have him waiting there to head you off at the pass. You have to sneak.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Model owned the team. They couldn't stop him. Even the NFL couldn't stop him.
So, who else is going to one of the playoff games this weekend??
I'm going to the Chargers game, I can not wait.
I am so nervous and excited!! I just so want the Chargers to win this, my hubby has been a diehard fan for 15 years, and Chargers fans that have stuck with this team through so many crappy years really deserve this win. I mean, the Pats fans have had their (multiple) day in the sun, right?
We have great seats, and I am getting ready to sceam my ass off. I will be so heartbroken if the Chargers don't win, but all the media coverage seems to be favoring the Pats (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). So, what does everyone here expect?
Is it Sunday yet???
I'm going to the Chargers game, I can not wait.
I am so nervous and excited!! I just so want the Chargers to win this, my hubby has been a diehard fan for 15 years, and Chargers fans that have stuck with this team through so many crappy years really deserve this win. I mean, the Pats fans have had their (multiple) day in the sun, right? We have great seats, and I am getting ready to sceam my ass off. I will be so heartbroken if the Chargers don't win, but all the media coverage seems to be favoring the Pats (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). So, what does everyone here expect?
Is it Sunday yet???
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Count On Losing This Sunday
Really Average Virtually Ensures No Shot
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Proven At The Superbowl
Really Average Virtually Ensures No Shot
Can't Handle Any Real Good Enemy Run Stopper
Proven At The Superbowl
MrPryck2U said:
Irsay owned the team, too. I don't know if the laws are different in Maryland. Check out that link I posted
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6309020
It has a lot more. My brother is an expert at explaining what happened, (yeah he's a big Colts fan too, we have been since the 70's) he sent it to me.
MrPryck2U
ONE love, blood, life
Chargers/Pats should be great! With LT, the Chargers have the advantage, but the Pats have more playoff experience. Then there's the battle of We Stole Another City's Team between the Ravens and Indy. I think the Ravens will win because their defense is better than the Colts offense right now.
Then, what exactly do you call the Cleveland Browns?
That makes no sense. The Browns are alive and well (well maybe not so well, but alive) in Cleveland....and might I add with all of their prior history and colors and so on and so on.
Apples and Oranges.....
That makes no sense. The Browns are alive and well (well maybe not so well, but alive) in Cleveland....and might I add with all of their prior history and colors and so on and so on.
Apples and Oranges.....
What Happened Last Year Against Denver?
btw, i just completed a new jersey purcahse via e-bay... 35 bucks
i love those jersey sellers that pop up for a month and then disapear... ya know the stuff is stolen goods, but eh, who gives a crap
btw, i just completed a new jersey purcahse via e-bay... 35 bucks
i love those jersey sellers that pop up for a month and then disapear... ya know the stuff is stolen goods, but eh, who gives a crap
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Bad Errors Are Rex's Staple
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Stopped At Intersection Near The Superdome
Seems Every Average Hack Always Will Klobber Seattle
Exemplifies A Glorified Loser Every Sunday
Stopped At Intersection Near The Superdome
Seems Every Average Hack Always Will Klobber Seattle
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
What the hell is Whlyad???Headache in a Suitcase said:What Happened Last Year Against Denver?
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