Next Album Rumours Thread III - The Gospel of Adam

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So here we are, June of 2021 is nearly upon us and there's zero news. I'm going to say that based on Bono's autobiography being due at the end of the year, that its going to be 2023 before we get a new album?

So maybe there are going to be plans for something Zoo TV-related next year? Although the risk of that is that it will impact recording on any new music they have planned.

I think we're all in agreement on here that as outsiders, it would seem that they need to pick a single producer and stick with them through to the end and release whatever that is.
 
blaming Rick Rubin for U2's songwriting mistakes is absurd (almost, but not quite, as absurd as saying Rubin never produced a great album)

blaming Spiderman for U2's songwriting mistakes is also absurd.

blaming It Might Get Loud is abusrd.

heck, even blaming Ryan Tedder is absurd.

the only people at fault are U2 themselves. no one else.
 
I'd say if anything, blame the public's reaction to POP and Popmart and then the success of the two hit driven albums that followed it. U2 loved the spotlight. It's their addiction. They tried to go experimental with NLOTH and chickened last minute which made them even more insecure about pushing themselves artistically. And now here we are.

At least SOI is still fucking phenomenal even though they ditched Danger Mouse at the end.
 
release All My Life as a digital single for the summer, no press or peeps til next move (Zoo2/new album/memoir/cookbook)
 
blaming Rick Rubin for U2's songwriting mistakes is absurd (almost, but not quite, as absurd as saying Rubin never produced a great album)

blaming Spiderman for U2's songwriting mistakes is also absurd.

blaming It Might Get Loud is abusrd.

heck, even blaming Ryan Tedder is absurd.

the only people at fault are U2 themselves. no one else.

U2 themselves are responsible at the end of the day, but the other four factors are still factors
 
Mr Jones did mention that there is too much pressure on them to be good anymore. Not all of that is internal.

They could choose not to care, but Bono cares.
 
It all comes down to this - despite all their success there's still crazy insecurity in the band. This causes them to chase pop culture relevance rather than simply just existing.

This exact same insecurity is also what likely fueled all of their greatest moments in the late 80s, early 90s and early 2000s. But now it's hurting them.

They can't just say "hey, let's just make a great sounding U2 record," or "hey let's make some good art and forget the rest." They need to try and chase a hit, or come up with some crazy publicity stunt to get it noticed.

They can't just go out and tour - they need to have the biggest tour ever. Or if it isn't the biggest, the most elaborate with moving stages and shit. Even on their laid back tour with a relatively simple stage setting they still need to go out and get the biggest 8k screen ever created and have an album's length movie curated for it. And hey - this is the good side (for us) of that insecurity. But that same insecurity leads them to recut No Line to include Crazy Tonight or get rid of Danger Mouse to bring in the One Direction guy.
 
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it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. we'll do it on the next album even more. But this is about songs. They are very difficult.

Sonic fireworks is what made U2 unique. U2 doing “songs” without those fireworks is rather boring. It’s pretty much Bono cramming as many words as possible into the verses and having an irritating over reliance on rhyming. Interesting that Bono would so openly admit to not wanting to sonically blow people’s minds. Hopefully as much as they stopped the fireworks on purpose, they can similarly start them again.
 
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A lot if it is also about the arena the band chooses to compete in.

Rather than duke it out with Radiohead and Springsteen as rock legends whose new albums are still events, they've chosen to compete with Imagine Dragons and OneRepublic for the title of Kings of the Soccer Moms. As a result, we get OneRepublic-caliber music and, hey, they'll even throw in *the actual singer of OneRepublic all over their fucking albums.*

It's ironic because I'm not sure exactly how they rate 'pop culture relevance.' Is OneRepublic relevant? They get played a lot on the radio - but that's at the behest of a program director, rather than actual demand. Kids - at least here in the United States - certainly don't listen to OneRepublic. If U2 wanted to be 'hip' with young people, Ryan Tedder's not the guy. Hip hop is king, EDM is also. What's ironic is that adventurous indie music is even more popular than the OneRepublics of the world among young people. So chasing pop culture relevance is true, because obviously Ryan Tedder has written a few massive hits for Beyonce and other popstars, and OneRepublic does well on the Billboard (though typically the adult contemporary charts).

The OneRepublics of the world, ironically, get most of their support from Gen Xers. Which, ironically, is also traditionally U2's fanbase. So, rather than simply being U2, a band generally beloved by Gen Xers and seen as unhip try-hards among just about everyone else, they're trying to chase a new demographic by emulating....a band that finds their biggest success among Gen Xers.

It's confounding.
 
Sonic fireworks is what made U2 unique. U2 doing “songs” without those fireworks is rather boring. It’s pretty much Bono cramming as many words as possible into the verses and having an irritating over reliance on rhyming. Interesting that Bono would so openly admit to not wanting to sonically blow people’s minds. Hopefully as much as they stopped the fireworks on purpose, they can similarly start them again.
This is the biggest thing they're missing. The fascination with SONGS SONGS SONGS and that strange "our songs suck because you can't play them acoustically so now we have to do that" thing.

That's not U2.
 
Also, this idea of Rubin's that U2 didn't have songs and only skated by with soundscapes is complete and utter bullshit.

A song doesn't have to follow traditional pop structure. Zooropa, the song, probably wouldn't sound very interesting on just a piano with Bono singing. But so what? It's a great fucking song.

Cedars of Lebanon is *all* soundscape and it's, in my opinion, the best song on NLOTH. Even Fez-Being Born, beloved on here, is basically a 'jam' that turned into one of the few interesting pieces of music on that album. The same can be said for half the songs on The Unforgettable Fire. What the fuck is this guy on about?
 
It all comes down to this - despite all their success there's still crazy insecurity in the band. This causes them to chase pop culture relevance rather than simply just existing.

This exact same insecurity is also what likely fueled all of their greatest moments in the late 80s, early 90s and early 2000s. But now it's hurting them.

They can't just say "hey, let's just make a great sounding U2 record," or "hey let's make some good art and forget the rest." They need to try and chase a hit, or come up with some crazy publicity stunt to get it noticed.

They can't just go out and tour - they need to have the biggest tour ever. Or if it isn't the biggest, the most elaborate with moving stages and shit. Even on their laid back tour with a relatively simple stage setting they still need to go out and get the biggest 8k screen ever created and have an album's length movie curated for it. And hey - this is the good side (for us) of that insecurity. But that same insecurity leads them to recut No Line to include Crazy Tonight or get rid of Danger Mouse to bring in the One Direction guy.



That’s a bingo. I share the opinion that the insecurity that once drove them has been magnified by their success to the point that the potential for failure looms larger than it ever has. Not to their career, but to their mindset. They make crummy choices because their focus is on dominating a crummy place - top 40 pop rock. If they shifted focus, who knows what they could achieve. No reason they couldn’t have another 15 years of classic rock glory by playing to their very sizeable core audience before taking a final bow.

[Here’s where I throw in the obligatory hope that they’d do some random arena tour without an album to promote, focusing on deep cuts and b-sides - properly communicated as such. Low tech, in the round.]

I love that they care, I just wish they didn’t care quite so much.
 
The Celtic mysticism has vanished from their music entirely, both lyrically and musically.

As said above, the orchestrated multi layered beauty of the music doesn’t exist anymore, and they’ve just become mainstream bores with their generic sound.

When I think of bands who exemplified the ‘big music’ in the 1980s (Celtic bands whose music was lush and larger than life - Simple Minds, Waterboys, Big Country, U2), the thing that separated U2 from all of them was the uniqueness of The Edge’s soundscapes. Even when they ventured into electronic sounds, it had a great sense of space, wonder and discovery - something enigmatic and almost spiritual that left you awestruck as a listener.

Now it’s all faux-Led Zep knock off riffs and middle age dad leather jackets. Utter shite.

When I see The Edge ‘rocking out’ on a skyscraper with that DJ for a shite Euro 2021 song, it makes me weep. This can’t be the guy who meticulously crafted all those beautiful soundscapes years ago surely?
 
Also, this idea of Rubin's that U2 didn't have songs and only skated by with soundscapes is complete and utter bullshit.

A song doesn't have to follow traditional pop structure. Zooropa, the song, probably wouldn't sound very interesting on just a piano with Bono singing. But so what? It's a great fucking song.

Cedars of Lebanon is *all* soundscape and it's, in my opinion, the best song on NLOTH. Even Fez-Being Born, beloved on here, is basically a 'jam' that turned into one of the few interesting pieces of music on that album. The same can be said for half the songs on The Unforgettable Fire. What the fuck is this guy on about?
Rick Rubin is not necessarily wrong. U2 are not the norm when it comes to recording and producing records. They are crazy frustrating to work with, by all accounts.

Producers have long been vital to shaping their sound. It's been a criticism by those who don't like U2, and it even led to a disagreement between the band and their most famous collaborator.

Not every producer likes to work that way. Clearly Rubin does not. It's not his way, and that doesn't make him any less of a producer. It just means he's not the best producer for U2.

That U2 got it all up in their ass that they were somehow not doing things the right way because things didn't work out with Rick Rubin is their fault, not Rubin's.
 
So what we're really saying is that we are really hoping U2 becomes the people we've been waiting for, eh?
 
I took a look yesterday and literally the worst seats in the building (last row of balcony opposite corner from stage)have a face value of $250.50.
Even the Stones never charged that much for complete crap seats.
Made the decision about whether or not to spend money to see Phil sitting the whole show very easy.

For me, the decision not to see Genesis live was made when Steve Hackett left the band.......
 
Also, this idea of Rubin's that U2 didn't have songs and only skated by with soundscapes is complete and utter bullshit.

A song doesn't have to follow traditional pop structure. Zooropa, the song, probably wouldn't sound very interesting on just a piano with Bono singing. But so what? It's a great fucking song.

Cedars of Lebanon is *all* soundscape and it's, in my opinion, the best song on NLOTH. Even Fez-Being Born, beloved on here, is basically a 'jam' that turned into one of the few interesting pieces of music on that album. The same can be said for half the songs on The Unforgettable Fire. What the fuck is this guy on about?

Well said, and I completely agree with your final paragraph John.

Cedars Of Lebanon is the only genuinely great track from NLOTH, in my opinion.

A shining diamond on an otherwise mostly forgettable & pretty disappointing album effort overall.
 
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Well said.

In my opinion, Cedars Of Lebanon is the only genuinely great track from NLOTH.

A shining diamond on an otherwise mostly forgettable & pretty disappointing album overall.

Agreed all around. I also think Cedars was one of the last truly great Bono lyrics. That one paints quite a picture, overall.
 
Agreed all around. I also think Cedars was one of the last truly great Bono lyrics. That one paints quite a picture, overall.

There was this thing I liked most about almost the entirety of 'POP' and 'Cedars of Lebanon' from No Line -- that quiet, worn-out, kind of low feeling, you get when waking up after an ugly day, when it's still with you. And although I am not a smoker myself, Cedars of Lebanon & 'The Troubles' are almost like the slow-burn of a cigarette; I love the stripped-down, mournful nature of these two tracks in particular..

I would love to see more of that more mellowed/subdued and moodier angle from the band in the future.
 
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There was this thing I liked most about almost the entirety of 'POP' and 'Cedars of Lebanon' from No Line -- that quiet, worn-out, kind of low feeling, you get when waking up after an ugly day, when it's still with you. And although I am not a smoker myself, Cedars of Lebanon & 'The Troubles' are almost like the slow-burn of a cigarette; I love the stripped-down, mournful nature of these two tracks in particular..

I would love to see more of that more mellowed/subdued and moodier angle from the band in the future.

Basically creating a mood. I know Bono has the famous line about Pop starting out as a party and ending as a funeral or something ala that, but it really is true. Something I really appreciate about Pop is that it just got darker and darker as the album went on.
 
Cedars was definitely in that downer ending mode of Wake Up Dead Man. I dig that side of the band.
 
I could definitely see their next album having some joyful and downer moments. Wouldn't be if it's a perspective of their lives in retrospect, their kids, the state of the world from 4 men in their mid 60's. Plenty of topics to draw inspiration from. While I don't expect anything groundbreaking or adventurous, I'm hoping all the time they've taken off so far and the fact that they don't seem to be anywhere close to working on a new album kind of resets their mentality a bit.
 
It would be great if they approached a new album as something entirely different, with a completely new vision.

But I'm afraid I expect more of the same aural beigeness that hampered the 'Songs of...' albums, particularly when Ryan Tedder is still purported to be working with them and throwing them cut and paste melodies.
 
I think they still have that last genuine late career “come back album” left in the tank. Now that the “songs of” era seems to be over, I think they will go back to some basics for their next one. Bono and Edge can continue doing some features if they want to expand their reach and fulfill their relevancy needs. I expect the next one to be more rock, less pop, stripped down sound.
 
I think they still have that last genuine late career “come back album” left in the tank. Now that the “songs of” era seems to be over, I think they will go back to some basics for their next one. Bono and Edge can continue doing some features if they want to expand their reach and fulfill their relevancy needs. I expect the next one to be more rock, less pop, stripped down sound.

If I may offer my opinion,

I kind of have to disagree when people argue that the last 2 records - (SOI in particular) - were "over-produced." That's a word that gets thrown around frequently (not here, necessarily; I'm too new to the forum to know that--but online in general), usually to connote "overly-polished." Those are two different things.

If anything, my issue with SOI was that it was somewhat under-produced. For example, Every Breaking Wave, Volcano and California sound quite thin production-wise. On these particular tracks, it feels like U2 tried to get back to a real "band" sound. Many songs feature what sounds like one guitar, bass, drums and maybe a keyboard part or two plus a couple of tracks of vocals. That should be exciting; I know a lot of former fans who have been clamoring for this for well over a decade now. Instead, though, the record sounds a little flat and uninspired, partly because slick production doesn't necessarily complement a minimalist approach. The reason U2's 80s and 90s records worked so well is that the production helped to make mountains out of molehills. The Joshua Tree, for example, is a pretty sparse record, but the way it was tracked and mixed really benefited it in that every single element seems to exist to bolster the next. Mostly it was smooth, but some rough edges were allowed to remain. And as Bono put it at the time, U2 was very much a four-legged table. Everyone's contributions were meaningful.

But the last few records, (but really SOI in particular..) seem to suffer from a situation where U2 as a band and their production team(s) simply show up to lay down songs, but nobody is overly concerned with making them sonically interesting. I can't speak for everyone, but I feel that oftentimes, our favorite records resonate with us deeply because the production matches the material. U2's rhythm section, being solid and workmanlike but never particularly elaborate, doesn't benefit from a boring-assed OneRepublic-style sheen. It just flattens out their dynamics, which is part of what makes them a unique band.

If the band are going to split up production duties among 2 to 5 hired guns anyway, then perhaps they should hire the best person for each job. For example having say... Butch Vig produce the rhythm section--or maybe the entire song, in the case of an up-tempo rocker--would certainly lend some girth and liveliness to that side of the material, which would (one hopes) force Edge, Bono, and whatever producer(s) they opted to bring in to dig deeper and push harder to really deliver the goods on whatever vibe they're trying to conjure. Hell, record Larry and Adam to tape. Get great, one-take live performances, and don't edit them any more than is necessary. Take risks again.

I really think what this band needs to do is to just indulge their own instincts and not worry about what's happening in the pop charts. It's okay that they let the broader culture influence what they're doing, but it shouldn't be the ultimate decider. Trying to write a hit record as a 45+ year-old white dude is, at this point in history, a fool's errand. They are inherently unable to access the heart of the present youth culture, and that's as it should be. That's not to say they couldn't have another big hit, but it seems to me that it's far more likely to occur with recorded material that sounds like everyone is invested and committed to it, as opposed to material that merely sounds competently designed to compete in today's marketplace.

TL;DR: I actually do like SOI - a lot... I just think it would have been better if it had been produced creatively instead of effectively.
 
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