Next Album Rumours Thread III - The Gospel of Adam

[Irvine511]

It’s easy to get frustrated with U2, what the pursing of chart hits and all.

But then I’m always reminded of this, the greatest magazine interview of all time, between NY Mag and Quincy Jones:

It’s still fucked up. 1964, when I was in Vegas, there were places I wasn’t supposed to go because I was black, but Frank [Sinatra] fixed that for me. It takes individual efforts like that to change things. It takes white people to say to other white people, “Do you really want to live as a racist? Is that really what you believe?” But every place is different. When I go to Dublin, Bono makes me stay at his castle because Ireland is so racist. Bono’s my brother, man. He named his son after me.

Is U2 still making good music?
[Shakes head.]

Why not?
I don’t know. I love Bono with all my heart, but there’s too much pressure on the band. He’s doing good work all over the world. Working with him and Bob Geldof on debt relief was one of the greatest things I ever did. It’s up there with “We Are the World.”

https://www.vulture.com/2018/02/quincy-jones-in-conversation.html

There really is a lot of pressure on them to be all things to all people and save the world and sell out stadiums. Fear drives them as much as anything, unfortunately.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I always get a kick out of how badly Bono’s image was disrupted by media when in fact he’s one of the ideal ones. He’s a good guy.

 

[doxxer]

Seems pretty clear to me that those two parties (Danger Mouse and U2) started working together with a singular vision in mind, with Danger Mouse telling them he wanted to make something conceptual and more akin to Zooropa or Pop, which he adored (this is documented).

link/sources please??

 

[HansaTonImbiss]

link/sources please??

It's all in here, including Tedder's "butcher" job of EBW:

https://rollingstoneindia.com/u2-trying-throw-arms-around-world/3/

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

It's all in here, including Tedder's "butcher" job of EBW:



https://rollingstoneindia.com/u2-trying-throw-arms-around-world/3/

˜Boots’ was an absolutely catastrophÂ*ic choice for a single,” says Mullen, still seething about it, five years later. “It was madness, but the decision was made, and that was the beginning of the end. We never recovered from it.”


I'm on board with Larry

 

[pacemaker]

Rubin told Bono that U2 use their skill at sculpting unique sound*scapes “to disguise the fact that you don’t have a song.” He pushed them to write traditionally structured tunes that would work with, say, voice and piano.

I hate re-reading this.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I hate rereading most of that article to be honest

 

[Hewson]

I hate re-reading this.

Yep.

 

[The John Tree]

Take it for what it's worth, but in their Instagram video honoring Bob Dylan's birthday today, Bono recites what appear to be song lyrics:

Raise your glass
To the alchemist
Keep it up, keep it up, because we can't get enough
Of the man who turns that into this

The pains of the age
Into rags of rage
The gold threads of the alchemist

Give it up, give it up
He's had it rough
But it's not like he's never been kissed
Give it up, give it up
He's had more than enough
Kiss the ring of the alchemist

Not sure if this is meant to be set to music, but the "keep it up" and "give it up" parts seem to lend themselves more to lyrics than to poetry, that's for sure.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The Miracle (Of Bob Dylan)

 

[DeVaul]

Editor Rescue Me

 

[Hewson]

Wake Up Zimmer-man

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

When we were first starting we were most inspired by the music of The Ramones, The Clash, The Who, The Beatles, Television, Anything Punk Rock, Bob Dylan.

 

[Zoo_Fly]

His reading of it kinda reminds me of something he would do for U2 X-Radio.

 

[doxxer]

Rubin told Bono that U2 use their skill at sculpting unique sound*scapes “to disguise the fact that you don’t have a song.” He pushed them to write traditionally structured tunes that would work with, say, voice and piano.

I hate re-reading this.

I too desperately... wish they'd put aside this Rick Rubin dumbassery once & for all...

I just think they operate in a musical strait-jacket these days - they seem to have forgotten about the sonic & loose structural qualities their songs used to have, now resorting to generic rigid pop song structures that sound uninspired. The Edge has forgotten all about the ethereal mysticism that makes him a unique guitarist (whatever happened to the orchestrated multi-layered beauty of songs like Unforgettable Fire?) and turned into a middle aged pub-rawk bore for the most part with an extremely dull stripped-down approach. Meanwhile, Bono thinks he's in direct competition with Chris Martin for generic cut and paste choruses & ends up sounding like all those U2 imitator bands from the mid-2000s.

Turn the studio into an instrument, begin building songs from the ground up.

And finally, tell Rick Rubin (the most over-rated producer of all time, who has never produced a genuinely great album in his life) to fuck off with his 'advice' that U2 hid behind intriguing sounds to make their songs sound interesting. POP alone is a better record than most of the over-rated crap that Rubin has produced, but unfortunately, they seem to have taken that grizzled bores advice over real auteurs like Eno & Lanios...

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

And finally, tell Rick Rubin (the most over-rated producer of all time, who has never produced a genuinely great album in his life) ..

slooooooooooooooooooow down, tiger

 

[doxxer]

I hate re-reading this.

slooooooooooooooooooow down, tiger

I just don't understand why Bono & the Edge must feel the constant need to somehow prove themselves to Rick Rubin when his songwriting style is the complete opposite of what U2's greatness was when you really distill it down. U2 were always this flawed, arduous, & disorganized chaos in studio that resulted in some pretty unique songwriting & cool soundscapes that the band became known for, unfortunately Mr Rubin's general style/methodology just does not compliment the band well at all.

 

[DaveC]

flawed, arduous, & disorganized chaos in studio that resulted in some pretty unique songwriting & cool soundscapes

yeah this totally doesn't describe the beastie boys or red hot chili peppers albums he made at all.

 

[doxxer]

I would gladly pay big money to hear Daniel Lanois’s early mix of NLOTH. I believe he said something like he wished they’d let him release it.

I think Zooropa is the closest we’ll get to an Edge produced album.

I also think that great records come from collaborations between artists & producers where the producer is free to interfere & the artist trusts his judgement. It doesn’t seem to be the case with U2 since Howie B on Pop. It’s also why many producers would never in a million years produce a U2 album. I’m thinking Nigel Godrich, Butch Vig, Stephen Street... & younger dudes I don’t even know.

Steve Lillywhite has been working with them the longest because he can handle the diva crap to a point. And he’s a loyal friend. I’m sure he has many stories we’ll probably never hear.

 

[The John Tree]

I think Zooropa is the closest we’ll get to an Edge produced album.

And that was 1993. These days, I don’t think we *want* an Edge produced album.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

The irony behind U2 is that trying to work with people like Rick Rubin isn’t what will give them the next big hit they seek. It (was) arguably with folks like Danger Mouse. Work with artists of new flavors, not artists of proven popular flavors.

 

[doxxer]

The irony behind U2 is that trying to work with people like Rick Rubin isn’t what will give them the next big hit they seek. It (was) arguably with folks like Danger Mouse. Work with artists of new flavors, not artists of proven popular flavors.

Here's an interesting quote I dug up from around Songs of Innocence, that shows Bono's mentality:

“The popsters are beating the others on melody. Not in lyrics, not in their aesthetic, but they’re writing better tunes. That was not the case with The Beatles and the Stones. The Beatles were writing better tunes than the popsters and not compromising on their lyrics and their aesthetic. When Brian Burton [Danger Mouse] ran out of time to work with us – and he’s by far the biggest presence on the album as a producer – we got to work with Paul Epworth, we got to work with Ryan Tedder. Their only interest is in melody that you haven’t heard before and the uniqueness of it. So that changed the game for us.”

 

[doxxer]

It just shows how Bono/the Edge's mentality for the last two album cycles has really been about 'songs' over style...

In his most recent (late 2014) interview with Bono, Dave Fanning brings this up (around the 20 minute mark) and even plays the intros to "Zoo Station" and "The Fly" to Bono and asks him about it and experimental production.

Bono seems a bit annoyed in his response. First, he responds that this album is different and U2 has never before sounded like "The Troubles" for example.

He then says "Why is it not like Zoo Station? Why is not like Zooropa? It is not an experimental album. It's an album of songs. That's what we want. We do what we want. Our last album was full of experimentation. This is a different kind of experimentation...it is as easy for me to blow your mind sonically...set off fireworks sonically. U2 can do that all day. We did it in the 90s. We did it our last album a bit. we'll do it on the next album even more. But this is about songs. They are very difficult."

Also we heard the rumour going around that the follow up Songs Of Experience was supposed to sound a bit like Zooropa, but apparently it it was more about the way the record was recorded was supposedly similar to zooropa/they wanted to work like that more - less second guessing themselves. Apparently it was never about it being the type of music. Here are some quotes: In the interview, guitarist The Edge first compared the record to Zooropa, and then said producer Brian Eno would like a similar path to the eighth album to be followed in the future. He said: “[Eno] would love to see us making albums a bit more like that. Where we go, ‘You know what? We’re not going to second-guess any of this. Let’s just go for it.’ I think there’s a quality you get when there’s a certain momentum to the process.” From another article: “I probably shouldn’t be telling you this but the reason the delay was so long is because we haven’t just been working on Songs of Innocence, we have in fact been working on two albums at the same time. There’s a ‘sister’ album called Songs of Experience also.” The plan then was to do a “Zooropa” on Songs of Experience. Just as the band had recorded and released the Zooropa album while they toured Achtung Baby in the early 1990s, the idea was to finish SOE off while touring Songs of Innocence during 2015.

Some interesting thoughts huh?

 

[lazarus]

God, that's all depressing, in terms of what could have been. SOE is about as far away from Zooropa as you could imagine, considering they delayed the album to rewrite the lyrics post-Trump election and had a slew of producers and random people adding guitars.

From the interview on the previous page, it's odd that Bono says Danger Mouse is the biggest producer presence on SOI; if memory serves he only has sole credit on the last 3 tracks? I guess he might still have co-credit on some of the others, with Tedder and Epworth coming in later to add extra polish. But it certainly doesn't feel like his album. Maybe if they had kept Reach Around in the opening track slot instead of moving it to the forgotten Acrobat position he would have made his mark earlier, especially had they followed it with Invisible.

But hey, that's why I only listen to my custom tracklist which does just that, to correct the idiotic mistakes they made.

 

[BEAL]

I agree that U2 have always used Edge's magic on the guitar and the studio to cover for the lacking proper musical technique/chops.

It's a tedious process but you really couldn't argue against the results. Pop didn't need the tour already scheduled or it could have turned into a much stronger album (and I love it).

Rick Rubin and Spiderman changed Bono and Edge. It would be one thing if the songs were as catchy as they are and didn't have such clunky 500 word verses from Bono. He talks about the Stones and Beatles writing the best pop songs but not compromising on lyrics.

I find Bono to be such a gifted writer and speaker, but since HTDAAB it's been slogans for the most part.

I can't see them returning to their old style of recording. They're too old and cranky to deal with each other like that. Best bet is for Edge and Bono to push forward into a uncomfortable zone, and then let Adam and Larry provide the backing at a later date

 

[pacemaker]

Rick Rubin and Spiderman changed Bono and Edge

IMO, add It Might Get Loud to Edge’s seachange around that general time as well.

 

[doxxer]

I agree that U2 have always used Edge's magic on the guitar and the studio to cover for the lacking proper musical technique/chops.

It's a tedious process but you really couldn't argue against the results. Pop didn't need the tour already scheduled or it could have turned into a much stronger album (and I love it).

Rick Rubin and Spiderman changed Bono and Edge. It would be one thing if the songs were as catchy as they are and didn't have such clunky 500 word verses from Bono. He talks about the Stones and Beatles writing the best pop songs but not compromising on lyrics.

Hard agree.

Rick Rubin's infamous advice & the Spider-Man musical really changed the dynamic of U2 (or specifically B&E)..

Both of those experiences taught them how to really craft a song. They have got the Beatles 3 minute pop song down (unfortunately for us)..

But they lost the U2 magic, that atmosphere that was unique to only them, with experience. They were never the best at their individual craft, & they had to work extremely hard to produce complete songs, driving their producers mad in the process..

That being said Danny & Brian were the perfect fit at the perfect time for them. Two artists themselves who brought that U2-ness to bloom.

U2 songs were an adventure. Edge coming up with landscapes & catchy riffs to go over. Bono has always sung about Love, but did so in a much more romantic way. Adam would come up with great bass-lines. Larry, I'll actually admit is playing the best he's ever done since Pop.

Now though, everything is filtered thru the pop music HITS lens/angle. Bono has to cram 800000 words into a verse, & the Edge has come up with better bass-riffs than guitar..

I do think this band has some potential for more greatness left in them. But they must quickly ditch the Rubin/Tedder/Show-tune style.. (tragically exemplified by 'You're The Best Thing About Me' & also... the perhaps more fittingly titled... 'The Showman' itself..)

Unless they strike a 'UTEOTW' tier rock song, go meditative. Go with love songs, but make them interesting at least.

 

[doxxer]

God, that's all depressing, in terms of what could have been. SOE is about as far away from Zooropa as you could imagine, considering they delayed the album to rewrite the lyrics post-Trump election and had a slew of producers and random people adding guitars.

Zooropa is such a strange beast.

The album itself is wonderful, but the mythology behind it, or the lack thereof, really creates an interesting dichotomy in historical versus referential perspectives.

Many of U2's productions under Eno were built around the simplicity of stream of consciousness. Even the more complex arrangements on albums earn their worth because under the production and distortion lies a naked thread that tugs at your ears.

Zooropa was so heavily influenced by the advance and melding of society and technology, that it stands out from their other albums... More so for the singular vision than for anything experimental or quick-to-release.

Bill Flannigan did a phenomenal job describing the maddeningly wild Tokyo zeitgeist in his book on U2. During this same period, the band was seriously considering starting their own television/media network.

This is my complicated way of saying that far too often (in my opinion), people, including the band themselves, use Zooropa as a trope that doesn't quite fit the narrative.

Was it produced relatively quickly? Yes. Was it experimental? Sure. Are those the two most dominant, defining characteristics of the album? Hell no.

The band could have skipped Songs of Experience and recorded Came Tumbling Down as a protest album against the authoritative American Right. It could have been everything Zooropa was, but with different intent - under a singular mindset.

U2 seems to work well with a singular theme. I don't think experimentation has ever been a defining trait to a successful album of theirs. It's always a matter of finding a theme the band can get lost in.

Songs of Innocence worked because it was very focused & immersed/enveloped in it's content. Songs of Experience, less so, in my opinion.

In my view, Songs of Innocence is one of the band's most 'lived-in' albums. Zooropa in particular, is quite similar in that way. It has a real tangible consistent setting/location, & a particularly strong over-arching theme/narrative.

 

[The John Tree]

What is Came Tumbling Down? Did I miss this?

 

[JamietheEdgefan]

Some great posts here

I'm of the same opinion that u2's strengths lie in soundscapes, catchy guitar riffs, and minimalism, and that the move to more 'traditional' song writing which can be played on an acoustic guitar hasn't done them any favours.

There's no 'right' way to write a good song, and the stripped down direction takes away what truly makes the band special IMO.

One potential silver lining of the radio silence re: a new album (almost 3 years and no return to the studio?) is that it might be reflective of them seriously reconsidering this approach.

In 2019 they were back in the studio with Ryan Tedder, and Adam mentioned the band wanting to do a quicker album (I think Tedder did too). Those sessions would presumably have led to more of the same - Tedder-esque pop music that can (and probably would) be played on acoustic guitar a lot, and with minimal soundscapes or guitar riffs.

That seems to have all gone out the window, or at least put on ice. Perhaps given the last two albums didn't have that hit they wanted, they'll want to try something new, or even finally give up consciously trying to get a hit altogether.

(... Or they've just been lying low because they're in their sixties and there's a pandemic happening)