verte76
Blue Crack Addict
Not only the Catholic thing, de Valera also believed the ideal Ireland would be rural. He really turned out to be wrong there--Ireland became prosperous only after technology became advanced there.
LJT said:^Probably also because Irish communities are just a bit more vocal than others....not that we are more nationalist than others, just we express it more?
AvsGirl41 said:jersey
Yeah, I think it's fair to say Ireland and Irishness are generally more internationally romanticized than the others, but again I think that has a lot to do with how "Irishness" has historically been developed and marketed abroad as a social, cultural and political bargaining chip of sorts (think Tammany Hall, etc.). In the US, for example, I think it's ultimately Irish-Americans who deserve the lion's share of credit for developing and fostering the appealing rags-to-riches narrative Americans in general asssociate with "Irishness" (particularly since the "riches" part didn't apply to Ireland itself until much later). And I think it's really the American version of this narrative--not anything about Ireland per se, or its writers, countryside, etc., which most Americans in truth know little about--that most Americans think of first and foremost when they think of St. Patrick's Day celebrations.TheQuiet1 said:Plus, Ireland has always had this romantic edge to it that, internationally, people don't tend to have about the nations on Britain (or do they???). Which I think is a bit unfair. I mean all the nations on the British Isles have had their fair share of beautiful countryside, talented writers, strong cultural identities and their own tales of hardship...but still people tend to associate these characteristics with Ireland more so than anywhere else.
yolland said:^ I think that's certainly got something big to do with it...although, correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is it's really the diaspora communities that have turned it into a green-beer-drinking, corned-beef-eating, cheesy-leprechaun-outfit-wearing, politicians-smooching-babies extravaganza, whereas I thought celebrations in Ireland itself were generally pretty low-key until recently...?
Yeah, I think it's fair to say Ireland and Irishness are generally more internationally romanticized than the others, but again I think that has a lot to do with how "Irishness" has historically been developed and marketed abroad as a social, cultural and political bargaining chip of sorts (think Tammany Hall, etc.). In the US, for example, I think it's ultimately Irish-Americans who deserve the lion's share of credit for developing and fostering the appealing rags-to-riches narrative Americans in general asssociate with "Irishness" (particularly since the "riches" part didn't apply to Ireland itself until much later). And I think it's really the American version of this narrative--not anything about Ireland per se, or its writers, countryside, etc., which most Americans in truth know little about--that most Americans think of first and foremost when they think of St. Patrick's Day celebrations.
But personally, I haven't a drop of Irish blood in me, so perhaps I'm blinded by my lack of emotional self-identification with all this...
Zoomerang96 said:someone answer my question now.
I'm Jewish, and this reminds me of an interview I read recently with the rabbi of a Dublin synagogue...he laughingly remarked that, in those (frequent) years where Purim (a holiday where Jews are actually commanded to get plastered) falls the day before St. Paddy's, Irish Jews wind up with "the mother of all hangovers" once their two-day drinking binge has passed...LJT said:...as well as a break in lent
That's a really good point, and I bet it applies to a lot of other immigrant groups from countries with more close-knit social structures, who get the reputation of "sticking together" once they move here. I can see where there might be some collective mental health benefits to indulging in that for awhile, before you go plunging into full-throttle American individualism......ahh i remember reading a book ages ago that lots of Irish immigrants developed mental health problems due to being out of their originally very close knit villages, towns and families....so maybe the larger celebrations of Irishness we see in the States now is just watering down(in irish cultural content) of those earlier celebrations.
When we moved to Brooklyn in the mid-80s, I know I sure thought they were strange and foreign! Of course, they in turn saw me as a sadly bastardized, Southern redneck freak, so it kind of all evened out...VertigoGal said:But when actual Russian Jews started arriving and going to their schools (this was the 70s), they were seen as strange and foreign.
yolland said:
You want to go back to discussing green beer, snowbunny?
yolland said:
I'm Jewish, and this reminds me of an interview I read recently with the rabbi of a Dublin synagogue...he laughingly remarked that, in those (frequent) years where Purim (a holiday where Jews are actually commanded to get plastered) falls the day before St. Paddy's, Irish Jews wind up with "the mother of all hangovers" once their two-day drinking binge has passed...
MrsSpringsteen said:10. York
Irvine511 said:
MrsSpringsteen said:Yeah it's supposed to say New York, it's early in the morning and I copied it from my e-mail