U2 Catalog: Results Here

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
the numbers are fixed and axver is still a dipshit. all is right with the world ;)

I knew that would have been axver. Quite happy to light a torch and march with a sharpened pitchfork to his abode, if anyone else is keen...

Thanks LN7. Have been eagerly awaiting this and, like the best christmas mornings, the reality matched the anticipation. Huge thanks and respect.
 
NAME. AND. SHAME.



The beauty of anonymity is that people can be honest without persecution. The fact that you were all, for the most part, unaware of what each other were scoring what... well, that's what gives us unbiased info.

Boots was a single. I find it to be one of their worst songs, but I don't think it was inconceivable that someone gave it a 10. They could be a statistical outlier, or representative of a non Gaussian... bimodal distribution. Need 10x the submissions to find out!
 
It would be interesting to see this done again with a set of guidelines over what qualifies each ranking. There really shouldn't be that many 10s. I don't care how much you like U2, a 10 should be reserved for perfection and should be very rare.

I gave songs an 8 that I really like - I feel a lot graded on the US school grade chart - 65 is passing.
 
Last edited:
There really shouldn't be that many 10s. I don't care how much you like U2, a 10 should be reserved for perfection and should be very rare.

I only gave four 10s out. I felt pretty good about that. However, my blindness/fanaticism kicked in when I couldn't give a U2 song anything less than a 4. I gave out about six of them. :reject:
 
I only gave four 10s out. I felt pretty good about that. However, my blindness/fanaticism kicked in when I couldn't give a U2 song anything less than a 4. I gave out about six of them. :reject:
There ya go.

You only gave a score as low as 4, and only 6 of them.

I considered 5 to be average, 4 to be slightly below average - and gave a bunch of songs scores in the 4-5-6 range, not considering them to be crap.
 
It would be interesting to see this done again with a set of guidelines over what qualifies each ranking. There really shouldn't be that many 10s. I don't care how much you like U2, a 10 should be reserved for perfection and should be very rare.

I gave songs an 8 that I really like - I feel a lot graded on the US school grade chart - 65 is passing.



Realistically speaking, it makes little difference whether or not there were stricter guidelines. If someone awards lots of 10s and others award equivalent 9s but preserve the same right-skewed bias (more songs graded above 5 than below 5) it's basically saying "I like U2."

Now, for example, if you give me a data set that's {1 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9 9 10 10} and someone else gives me {2 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9 10 10 10} and we combine those two sets, you're going to result in practically the same deviation with just a lifted average. And at the end of the day, does the average number matter? I can take our results and scale them to a 5 average and shift the results to fit them into a normal distribution with a mean of 5 on a 1 to 10 scale.

The point really is that what actually matters is folks relative gradings from within their own data set. If I were to prescribe strict guidelines, it runs the risk of forcing people to feel obligated to give x amount of y grades. In which case, that's inducing a bias, and makes the data "fit" the model.

Long story short, while I agree the amount of 10s were sometimes abused on an individual scale, globally I would venture to say it has next to no impact on the ranking of the actual songs. Just the inflation of score per song.
 
It would be interesting to see this done again with a set of guidelines over what qualifies each ranking. There really shouldn't be that many 10s. I don't care how much you like U2, a 10 should be reserved for perfection and should be very

I agree, but the subjective nature of music makes "perfection" pretty hard to judge. There are are just so many variables at play as to what constitutes "perfect." I looked quickly at my submissions and see that I ranked 21 songs as perfect. Numerically it sounds like a lot, but it's under 8% of U2's entire catalog, so that seems about right in my books.

I think a system that used a bell curve would be more consistent overall as people would be limited as to the amount of 10's, 9's, 8's...etc. that could be given. This should hypothetically differentiate the "perfects" from the "great." In the end I don't think it's anything to be too pedantic about and while the stats are super interesting, we're talking about a sample of the tiniest top percentage of U2 super fans who took the survey as opposed to a large cross section of casual music listeners.
 
Here’s a list containing songs ranked in order of which received the most 10 point grades,:
PHP:
"
+------+-----------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| Rank | Song Title                                    | Times Graded 10     |
+------+-----------------------------------------------+---------------------+
| 60   | Wire                                          |          2          |
really curious who the other person was :hmm:

PHP:
| 131  | 4th of July                                   |          1          |
+------+-----------------------------------------------+---------------------+
"

knew i would be the only one to do this and i'm kinda proud of it.

And another list containing songs ranked in order of which received the most 1 point grades.
PHP:
"
+------+---------------------------------------------------------+--------------------+
| Rank | Song Title                                              | Times Graded 1     |
+------+---------------------------------------------------------+--------------------+
| 15   | Love Rescue Me                                          |         3          |
| 22   | Silver and Gold                                         |         2          |
| 36   | With a Shout                                            |         1          |
| 39   | Walk to the Water                                       |         1          |
| 40   | Wake Up Dead Man                                        |         1          |
| 41   | Vertigo                                                 |         1          |
| 42   | Van Diemen's Land                                       |         1          |
| 45   | Ultraviolet (Light My Way)                              |         1          |
| 46   | Two Shots of Happy, One Shot of Sad                     |         1          |
| 47   | The Troubles                                            |         1          |
| 48   | Trip Through Your Wires                                 |         1          |
| 50   | The Three Sunrises                                      |         1          |
| 57   | So Cruel                                                |         1          |
| 64   | Numb                                                    |         1          |
| 75   | The Hands that Built America                            |         1          |
| 76   | The Ground Beneath Her Feet                             |         1          |
| 77   | God Part II                                             |         1          |
       |
+------+---------------------------------------------------------+--------------------+
"

anyone who did this should be perma-IP-banned from this forum without warning.

It would be interesting to see this done again with a set of guidelines over what qualifies each ranking. There really shouldn't be that many 10s. I don't care how much you like U2, a 10 should be reserved for perfection and should be very rare.

I gave songs an 8 that I really like - I feel a lot graded on the US school grade chart - 65 is passing.

same, i tried to only give 10s for the absolute best of the best and keep the majority of the songs to the 4-7 range unless i really liked or really hated it. i only gave out two 1s and ten 2s, although i did give out ten 10s and a whack of 9s, but of course there are more u2 songs i really love than songs i really hate, or i wouldn't be a u2 fan.
 
I agree, but the subjective nature of music makes "perfection" pretty hard to judge. There are are just so many variables at play as to what constitutes "perfect." I looked quickly at my submissions and see that I ranked 21 songs as perfect. Numerically it sounds like a lot, but it's under 8% of U2's entire catalog, so that seems about right in my books.

I think a system that used a bell curve would be more consistent overall as people would be limited as to the amount of 10's, 9's, 8's...etc. that could be given. This should hypothetically differentiate the "perfects" from the "great." In the end I don't think it's anything to be too pedantic about and while the stats are super interesting, we're talking about a sample of the tiniest top percentage of U2 super fans who took the survey as opposed to a large cross section of casual music listeners.
I'm not saying we need to define perfect - just that a 1 to 10 scale is a 1 to 10 scale, and that a grade of 5 is average and anything above that is above average or better, and anything below that is below average or better.

A grade of 4 is not awful in my eyes, whereas others have stated that 4 is the lowest grade they gave out and reserved only for a couple of songs.

An added memo of "a perfect 10 should only be applied to songs that you feel literally could not be better than what they are" and that a grade of 1 should be reserved for songs that are, in your opinion, venturing into brown note territory.
 
And to that point, again, I don't think that has much to do with the prompt. It's the bias induced from the population. If the population of diehard fans has a hard time behaving Gaussian, it's likely not Gaussian.

Like I said, I can normalize the numbers and force means to 5, but that would be an assumption that the population is indeed Gaussian in opinion of U2s music.
 
The beauty of anonymity is that people can be honest without persecution. The fact that you were all, for the most part, unaware of what each other were scoring what... well, that's what gives us unbiased info.

Boots was a single. I find it to be one of their worst songs, but I don't think it was inconceivable that someone gave it a 10. They could be a statistical outlier, or representative of a non Gaussian... bimodal distribution. Need 10x the submissions to find out!

So, what you're saying is... you gave Boots 10. :wink:

really curious who the other person was :hmm:

Hello.

anyone who did this should be perma-IP-banned from this forum without warning.

Love Rescue Me, Trip, Ultra Violet, and So Cruel deserved it.

But I can't imagine somebody who'd want to give 1 to God Part II, Three Sunrises, or TGBHF.

I gave 54 tens, fuck you all. Remember this the next time you troll me for being a U2 hater. I gave 30-40 each for seven, eight, and nine, about 15 each for the rankings from two to six, and 32 ones. I think that's a fair distribution that says "I like U2, but not everything they've done, and that I have strong opinions on their best and worst songs".

Note: I only gave three 10s post-Pop. And none of them are on an album. :lol:
 
So Cruel is better than all but maybe 1 or 2 songs U2 has put out this decade. Ultraviolet is better than all of them.

But I won't say Ax hates U2 just because his taste in their music is uhhh err unusual. That would be idiotic.
 
And to that point, again, I don't think that has much to do with the prompt. It's the bias induced from the population. If the population of diehard fans has a hard time behaving Gaussian, it's likely not Gaussian.

Like I said, I can normalize the numbers and force means to 5, but that would be an assumption that the population is indeed Gaussian in opinion of U2s music.



I think you were absolutely correct to not attempt to give out guidelines; it would have been meaningless. Worse than meaningless because, as you point out, it would probably have corrupted the results.
 
I find it really interesting looking at the results for a couple of songs that get a lot of hate on this forum: Boots and Song for Someone. Neither of these songs got a single 1. Both got 10s (SOS got two and I guess Boots got one though I can’t find it on the list). Judging by the histograms (just eye-balling it) Boots got an average score of about 5 and SOS got about 7.

This seems more proof of something that’s occurred to me regarding how representative this forum (and others) are of U2 fandom. Obviously the members are mostly die-hards, not casual fans, but I don’t think the comments are very representative even of the die-hards. Because it tends to be the same small group of very active members who generate most of the comments. So these two songs rated higher than you might have guessed going by what’s been said about them.

And I’ve noticed that different U2 forums have different personalities, though I know the membership overlaps to some extent. Anyway, in wondering what group is represented by the survey, I’d say it may be a valid sample of the Interference forum but I don’t think we can go beyond that.
 
Last edited:
Judging by the histograms (just eye-balling it) Boots got an average score of about 5 and SOS got about 7.


The averages are printed under the histogram!

As for the rest of your post, I also think there's animosity towards Boots because it's their first supposed big song off a new album that totally flopped. I find it to be annoying - I gave it a 2 or 3 I forgot. But my distaste for the song also comes from knowing it's not a BD or Vertigo. That's why I treat it like a 1 in public, but happily consider it to be 2-5 in my own head.
 
It looks like I'm the only one who gave Elvis Presley and America a 1. Let me just say that in the recent BBC special, during a discussion about Bongolese, Bono actually apologized for that song. :cool: #justified

Then Edge said he likes it. But still.

Also, this is really interesting:

Interestingly on this, it seems as though folks who have seen more shows are in a way jaded. Though that's just a theory open to discussion.

Maybe they've built up a high tolerance for dopamine and now they feel nothing.
 
Last edited:
Yeah just a reiteration of the first post - the list rankings weren't going to format or fit in here on mobile.

I was lucky enough to utilize a very dated and very strange feature of vbulletin and other web forums. For some reason you can add HTML and PHP code blocks (and some forums allow you to actually post in HTML but not JavaScript embedded). So yeah, we have PHP code blocks but no ability to run them, so I put the lists in PHP commented out text and since PHP is a space-preserving language, it didn't shorten everything [emoji23]
 
I find it really interesting looking at the results for a couple of songs that get a lot of hate on this forum: Boots and Song for Someone. Neither of these songs got a single 1. Both got 10s (SOS got two and I guess Boots got one though I can’t find it on the list). Judging by the histograms (just eye-balling it) Boots got an average score of about 5 and SOS got about 7.

This seems more proof of something that’s occurred to me regarding how representative this forum (and others) are of U2 fandom. Obviously the members are mostly die-hards, not casual fans, but I don’t think the comments are very representative even of the die-hards. Because it tends to be the same small group of very active members who generate most of the comments. So these two songs rated higher than you might have guessed going by what’s been said about them.

I gave Boots a 1.

It wasn't possible to give it a zero.
 
I apologize, I don’t know what the heck I was looking at last night. Boots received two 1s and SOS got one.

Still, that’s less than I would have expected based on comments.
True - but as has already been stated, some couldn't bring themselves to give a U2 song anything below a 4. So their 4 is equivalent to my 1
 
True - but as has already been stated, some couldn't bring themselves to give a U2 song anything below a 4. So their 4 is equivalent to my 1



One person said they couldn’t bring themselves to give any song less than a 4. Assuming that person gave Boots a 4 (which we don’t know) that makes one more 1-equivalent.
 
I mean, the numbers are there, guys. Like I said before, someone's interpretation of the grading is just going to shift the averages. The smaller that person's deviation, if scaled, would result in that person's 4 being a 1.
 
I mean, the numbers are there, guys. Like I said before, someone's interpretation of the grading is just going to shift the averages. The smaller that person's deviation, if scaled, would result in that person's 4 being a 1.
I'll take your word on that one - as you know way more about this stuff than I do. But I still don't know how it wouldn't raise the averages and why that doesn't matter - which is probably why I'm in sports marketing and not an accountant. I do maths bad.
 
I'll take your word on that one - as you know way more about this stuff than I do. But I still don't know how it wouldn't raise the averages and why that doesn't matter - which is probably why I'm in sports marketing and not an accountant. I do maths bad.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter. I'm saying neither of you are incorrect. I took a solid hour out of work to write this up, so please digest :p

Their 4 is like a 1, you're right. If they're working on a scale from 4 to 10 because they can't award the band a 1-3, it's a somewhat arbitrary scaling. Somewhat. View it like a vector...

You(Real): <1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10>
Them: <4, ..., 10>

What's the difference?



[((Their Max - Their Min)*(x - Real Min) / (Real Max - Real Min)) + Their Min]*<You>

[((10 - 4)*(x - 1) / (10 - 1)) + 4]*<You>

[6(x-1)/9 + 4]*<You>

[0.333333(x-1) + 4]*<You>

or...

Them: <4, 4.666, 5.333, 6, 6.666, 7.333, 8, 8.666, 9.333, 10>

The difference between the two of you? A scaled and shifted range of (1/3)*(x-1) + 4.



What does it mean? Well, the scaling has a minor effect. They've reduced their granularity. So assuming they have the same distribution as you do (like, they award as many 10s as you do and they award as many 4s as you award 1s and everything in between), their step size is 0.666 per grade, whereas yours is 1. So, they're going to exhibit less deviation than you do. Think of their distribution as being "scrunched" up. If someone else said "well geez, I can't give U2 anything less than an 8" the maximum their data could deviate would be 1... 9 +/- 1. Does that matter when pooling you guys? No, not really. Not as long as you're consistent along your entire data set and so are they. Their contribution to the deviation of each data set might not be as much as it should be if I normalized their results before pooling (which I can do). But, the relative deviation from one song to the next will remain the same.

And that's the important point here, if that remains the same, the order of the rankings doesn't change. It just means that the actual estimation for song value is a mild percentage off of what it should be.

And that's actually what brings up the second half of where I think neither of you are incorrect. The relativity from one song to the next is fixed, regardless of what scale anyone is using. Boots placed where it did because, relatively speaking, that's where people put it (on average). It likely *did* do better than expected, to Luzita's point. 36 places above last place by the original ranking's merit, *with* a considerable deviation, indicating people probably disagreed. If you look at the histogram, you see two peaks. One around 4 and one around 6. Something like that is bimodal. The average is 5, but nobody felt it's worth a 5. People either thought it was worth more than that or less than that.

NOW, to the point about shifting. Someone who chooses to rescale their scoring options *does* shift the scoring up. They did so by that whole (1/3)*(x-1) + 4. They have actually *skewed* the distribution somewhat. Why isn't that a problem? Well, it would be a problem if we told them they had to be normally distributed, because your distributions wouldn't be compatible. If you said x amount have to be a 5, y amount have to be a 10 or 1, I would have to rescale their numbers before adding your distributions together. Otherwise, the overall distribution would start to pull right. Why do we accept that right now though? It's a result! If someone was given a loose definition to say 1 is the absolute worst music and 10 is the very best and they can't help but say everything is a 7/8/9/10 because they love U2 so much, there's an inherent bias of the participant. That should be expected... our sample is a sample filled with diehard U2 fans. Perhaps the problem statement should never have said "best of U2's music" and "worst of U2's music," as that seems to suggest there should be a normal distribution (some should be best, some should be worst, some should be average). But that's also why I explicitly said you're free to interpret it as you wish.

So why isn't this shifting important? I think the thing is, you're using your definition of 1-10 and applying it to the global definition, which is sort of undefined. A 90 isn't an A, 80 B, etc. etc., just higher = better, lower = worse. Bottom line, I could rescale the results such that average = 5 on a scale of 1-10, no problem. I could rescale it from 0-10, too. Or from 1-100. I couuld've left it as total points received, instead of averaging it. The number it has is mathematically arbitrary. The only thing that matters is the relative number a song has versus another song, and that you're all consistent with your own approaches.
 
Ds2vDUh.gif
 
tl;dr

It absolutely matters, if we say 5 is defined as "average song" and 10 is "the best song or songs" and 1 is "the worst song or songs" AND we are trying to understand where an individual song lands on this scale. Like, meaning, Streets was almost a 10, meaning "it's likely that the population believes it's the best song." We can't really make that conclusion without scaling bias first. It really doesn't matter, IF we are only interested in the relative positions of each song. Streets and Bad both received near 10s. But, even if we scaled that and they received near 8s after accounting for bias, they would still be in front.


For what that's worth, what I say is only true due to the fact that one ranking set falls entirely within another one. It wouldn't be true if, say, someone decided they wanted to use scores <6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15>. Of course, I would've thrown their survey out, as only integers between 1 and 10 were valid.
 
Back
Top Bottom