Achtung Baby/ Zooropa remaster/ reissue - Part V/Five

[corianderstem]

What's more likely - that they were A) dropping a random comment about the issue of outsourcing in America into their posts about trying to get their Achtung Baby box sets as soon as possible, or B) that the "WTF" and "LMAO" comments were because they were laughing at his name?

Yeah, I'm sticking with B.

 

[TheEdge25]

Just to clear something up....I didn't intend the "WTF" comment to come across as me laughing at some foreign customer service worker's name. When I read the name, my first thought was of some guy named like Dennis or Dave or something who goes around calling himself Deepack (or D-Pack). That's what I found funny.

Sorry that I offended so many

 

[Popmartijn]

Wow that's weird. Usually Bol.com is really fast with their shipping.

Yeah. I ordered mine with Bol.com too and it did arrive on time. Sorry to hear yours didn't, U2Boy_NL.

 

[Rasta]

If somebody could send me the link I would appreciate it. The one that was emailed to me says the file is not available.

pkasta@rogers.com

Cheers !

 

[corianderstem]

Well, thanks for clarifying. It's probably pretty unlikely that a company would allow their employees to give themselves goofy nicknames to identify themselves when acting as a representative of said company.

"Yeah, my name's Dave, but everyone calls me D-Pack. Is it cool if I use that when I chat with customers?"

Amazon: "Yeah .... not so much, Dave."

And so I take it you've never heard of Deepak Chopra?

 

[Dfit00]

The comment was entirely based on the name, not on the nature of the job.

Outsourcing jobs in developing nations have their negative side due to cheap labor and exploitation, but the real key problem is lack of job opportunities and poverty. An Indian citizen is happy with a monthly salary of $500 just by speaking English and knowing basic computing skills (Not bad in India!). These workers are afraid of demanding more cash or benefits because they run the risk of getting fired and fucked up in the long run.

Have you ever read or heard (I highly doubt that you have, TheEdge25 and theedgeu2, both of your names start with THEEDGE LOL WTF??) about Deepak Chopra?

Reading his books is a helpful guide to getting out of your way of thinking, brotini's.

 

[corianderstem]

Ha, mind meld with Dfit.

 

[dan_smee]

It's not a matter of "opinion". U2 isn't calling the album remastered. If people can't agree on that, as an absolute, base minimum on which to draw a conclusion, they're not operating from a place of reason.

Otherwise, people can just make up whatever definition for whatever terms they wish, which is essentially what's going on here. Yes, a new master was created when they tweaked the levels, but it's nowhere near what they did for all the other reissues. That's a fact, not an opinion. U2's not calling it a remaster. They fact that some people want to say "It's remasterd to me"...well, there's really no reasoning with that.

Because, believe, me, if U2 used the word remaster, I'd be hearing no end of it. It's basically a lot of people who don't even want to respect even what U2 says about their own product because admitting that they might have been wrong is apparently impossible for them.

Agree 100% on point 2.

You missed the point entirely.

I didn't say anyone was right. I, orr most other people DON'T FUCKING CARE who is right. My point was you and plenty of others have had their say on the issue and nothing else you can say will convince anyone.

My point was an adult if the human species can generally accept that people have differing perspectives and after 4 weeks of arguments they will talk about something else.

My point was, it doesn't matter who is right. We have 100% confirmation of what actually happened, so everyone here feels at least partially vindicated.

My point was also that you (as in the reader, not just nick) are all capable of intelligent conversation on this forum, but have let it degenerate into a primal pissing contest. Grow up.

 

[dan_smee]

My apologies to all. Ottoed to send that last night, And it didn't go through. Apparently it tried to send from my phone again this morning. Didn't mean to drag that debate up again.

New topic:

Are there any baby versions anyone here doesn't like?

 

[sonichka]

And so I take it you've never heard of Deepak Chopra?

That was my first thought.

Also is there anything on the amazon site that says you will without a doubt get an item the day of release? I would think thats a bit much to ask for. If anything i'd assume it ships on release day, assuming they get the product on time, which they dont always do. I dont see how its amazon's fault per se.

 

[sonichka]

Are there any baby versions anyone here doesn't like?

TTTYAATW because it sounds like brand new Bono vocals. I would bet money on it. In fact the entire instumentation sounds new-ish.

 

[chocky]

You missed the point entirely.

I didn't say anyone was right. I, orr most other people DON'T FUCKING CARE who is right. My point was you and plenty of others have had their say on the issue and nothing else you can say will convince anyone.

My point was an adult if the human species can generally accept that people have differing perspectives and after 4 weeks of arguments they will talk about something else.

My point was, it doesn't matter who is right. We have 100% confirmation of what actually happened, so everyone here feels at least partially vindicated.

My point was also that you (as in the reader, not just nick) are all capable of intelligent conversation on this forum, but have let it degenerate into a primal pissing contest. Grow up.

Dan, you've probably noticed that around half of Nick's 700 posts have been about the remaster issue (including almost all his first 50 posts).

His promises of "case closed" have been broken and he seems compelled to respond to everyone's contradictiory posts (then ironically asks "how old are you" to others).

But it seems that others are also having some fun by provoking Nick with "it's remastered" jibes, knowing Nick seemingly has to respond

Maybe it's time for moderators to start deleting all posts that say the album is or isn't remastered because it's BORING as BAT SHIT having this argument railroad every single conversation

Can't everyone just enjoy the fucking 10 disk (!!) album we've now got and shut the fuck up!

 

[Popmartijn]

Outsourcing jobs in developing nations have their negative side due to cheap labor and exploitation, but the real key problem is lack of job opportunities and poverty. An Indian citizen is happy with a monthly salary of $500 just by speaking English and knowing basic computing skills (Not bad in India!). These workers are afraid of demanding more cash or benefits because they run the risk of getting fired and fucked up in the long run.

Not to turn this into the Free Your Mind forum, but this characterization isn't entirely true. The reason an Indian citizen is happy with a monthly salary of $500 is because this is a huge sum in India and gives them a lot of purchasing power in India. They maybe live as well as someone who earns ten times that amount in the US.
And given the huge demand for these jobs (though probably more for skilled IT work) they can demand more cash or benefits. Otherwise they join a competitor who is offering more.
I see this happen (almost) first hand at my company, a big IT consulting firm. Our Indian branch is growing extensively and still we often have challenges in finding enough skilled persons.

 

[dan_smee]

TTTYAATW because it sounds like brand new Bono vocals. I would bet money on it. In fact the entire instumentation sounds new-ish.

I respectfully disagree about the newishness. The guitar was known as 'montgomery's vist' or 'goin down south' on the Salome outtakes, and I am sure Brian and Danny are in the backing vocals. Bonos vocals, well I could go either way, but they had no need at all to record them again, and the lyrics sound like a sketch

 

[chocky]

TTTYAATW because it sounds like brand new Bono vocals. I would bet money on it. In fact the entire instumentation sounds new-ish.

I'm struggling with that song too. Sonically, it sounds newer but performance wise it seems like a very early sketch. Either way, the laughter after "head like a cabbage" puts me off the song.

 

[dan_smee]

Dan, you've probably noticed that around half of Nick's 700 posts have been about the remaster issue (including almost all his first 50 posts).

His promises of "case closed" have been broken and he seems compelled to respond to everyone's contradictiory posts (then ironically asks "how old are you" to others).

But it seems that others are also having some fun by provoking Nick with "it's remastered" jibes, knowing Nick seemingly has to respond

Maybe it's time for moderators to start deleting all posts that say the album is or isn't remastered because it's BORING as BAT SHIT having this argument railroad every single conversation

Can't everyone just enjoy the fucking 10 disk (!!) album we've now got and shut the fuck up!

Her here

 

[sonichka]

I respectfully disagree about the newishness. The guitar was known as 'montgomery's vist' or 'goin down south' on the Salome outtakes, and I am sure Brian and Danny are in the backing vocals. Bonos vocals, well I could go either way, but they had no need at all to record them again, and the lyrics sound like a sketch

Well i'll take your word for it on the instrumentation becuase i hadn't heard any earlier mixes. The vocals though......Bono sounds nothing like he did in 92....

 

[Popmartijn]

I respectfully disagree about the newishness. The guitar was known as 'montgomery's vist' or 'goin down south' on the Salome outtakes, and I am sure Brian and Danny are in the backing vocals. Bonos vocals, well I could go either way, but they had no need at all to record them again, and the lyrics sound like a sketch

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, according to the liner notes there have been additional recordings for this track. It doesn't say what, but the guess is that Bono's vocals are new.

 

[Niceman]

Remember, it doesn't have to be black or white. Some tracks might have a mix of old and new instrumentation and old and new vocals.

 

[santiago]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, according to the liner notes there have been additional recordings for this track. It doesn't say what, but the guess is that Bono's vocals are new.

i have to listen back to it again, but the Bono vocals did sound like they were from the period to me. I do not think he would have recorded sketchy lyrics and cracked up with laughter ryming cabbage with savage in 2011 vocals (why on earth would he do that?). The rest of the vocals are Lanois, Edge and Eno.

As I said, in the Complete Salomé there is another early version of TTYAATW which has Bono Edge and Lanois improvising vocals over a similar backing track.

So I wonder what are the additional tracks. The keyboard part does not sound like anything on any of the Salomé outtakes, so it could be that...

 

[corianderstem]

Also is there anything on the amazon site that says you will without a doubt get an item the day of release?

Yes, with some (all?) items for pre-order, including this box set, it will say something like "Want this item on Tuesday, November 1 (or whatever the release date is)? Select 2-day shipping to have it on its release date."

Up until a certain time this morning, it still said that in the item description. And now it says you have to select "one-day shipping" to have it on Nov 1.

So there was some concern when people noticed it hadn't yet shipped, and Amazon was telling some people, incorrectly at first, that 2-day shipping meant it would ship on the day of release. The guy I spoke with, when I pointed out what it stated on the item page, then confirmed that with pre-orders where we'd selected that specific shipping, the delivery estimate was still November 1.

Mine still doesn't show as shipped, but either they ship on Sundays somehow (I always assumed that since I can't go to the post office or to UPS and ship something on Sunday, that a business couldn't either, but maybe they can), or it'll be overnight anyway and ship on Monday.

 

[gareth brown]

Remember, it doesn't have to be black or white. Some tracks might have a mix of old and new instrumentation and old and new vocals.

Well, to be honest if I was told U2 was putting out an early 'demo' version of Achtung Baby, I really would expect it to be 'black and white'. black being Achtung Baby, the finished album U2 released in 1991, and white being earlier recordings of the songs.

continuing this theme of black and white you've brought up, if they're going to go and throw multiple shades of grey into the mix by getting Bono to re-record vocals 20 years later* among other things then there's no point. they might as well just re-record fresh vocals/guitar parts/whatever on the actual Final versions of the songs themselves, and put that on a bonus disc as something of equal curiosity value and interest. Just as they may do with Pop if they DO get round to re-recording it as I know a lot of people are hoping they will for the re-issue.**

It might sound like I'm moaning unnecessarily but it's just another case of U2 seeming physically unable to just leave things alone. I understand maybe a song on this demo disc was missing was lyric or whatever, but it's a demo.
that's the point. to offer an alternative angle on an album in the form of unfinished versions of tracks we know and love. U2 fans won't have a heart attack if they put out a demo version of Achtung Baby as a bonus disc with an incomplete track on it. (or maybe they will) but going back and adding a 50 year old Bono's vocals to stuff is just silly..

*I haven't HEARD these yet but reading this thread it appears that the new vocals are what are being contested here? Is that right? I'm happy to be wrong. Also niceman, I'm not singling out your post specifically and trying to have a go at you, I just read the last few pages and gave it some thought and yours is the post that made me think suddenly what to write!

** now they've opened the gates with a whole Alternative version of Achtung Baby, maybe they actually WILL end up doing their re-imagined Pop like they always suggested??

 

[morgan1098]

Yes, with some (all?) items for pre-order, including this box set, it will say something like "Want this item on Tuesday, November 1 (or whatever the release date is)? Select 2-day shipping to have it on its release date."

Up until a certain time this morning, it still said that in the item description. And now it says you have to select "one-day shipping" to have it on Nov 1.

So there was some concern when people noticed it hadn't yet shipped, and Amazon was telling some people, incorrectly at first, that 2-day shipping meant it would ship on the day of release. The guy I spoke with, when I pointed out what it stated on the item page, then confirmed that with pre-orders where we'd selected that specific shipping, the delivery estimate was still November 1.

Mine still doesn't show as shipped, but either they ship on Sundays somehow (I always assumed that since I can't go to the post office or to UPS and ship something on Sunday, that a business couldn't either, but maybe they can), or it'll be overnight anyway and ship on Monday.

I hope so. I have a trial amazon prime membership, so everything is 2-day shipping. My AB box still says "not yet shipped," and yet my wife ordered a Christmas present for someone this morning (Saturday) and it immediately had a "shipping soon" status. And now, just a few hours later, it has shipped with an estimated delivery of Nov. 1.

I'm sure if amazon has access to enough AB box sets, they'll ship in time to arrive on Nov. 1. My concern, though, is that perhaps they're "out of stock" and that's why some pre-orders haven't shipped. The suspense is killing me!

 

[corianderstem]

Well, if I don't get it Tuesday, I'll certainly be raising a stink to get the extra shipping cost refunded to me.

I've definitely ordered stuff to be delivered on release dates before, however, and I don't recall ever not having got something on that day. (I might be wrong about it, but I don't think I would have automatically gone for it here if I'd had problems with it in the past. Maybe my memory is failing. )

 

[buddhabone]

I'm fairly certain that Amazon did receive enough copies. They are going to send then overnight to meet the release day guarantee .

 

[mikal]

Has this thread turned into discussions about foreign people now? If so, I'd like to discuss further. I generally dislike foreigners....and women.

 

[Niceman]

Well, to be honest if I was told U2 was putting out an early 'demo' version of Achtung Baby, I really would expect it to be 'black and white'. black being Achtung Baby, the finished album U2 released in 1991, and white being earlier recordings of the songs.

continuing this theme of black and white you've brought up, if they're going to go and throw multiple shades of grey into the mix by getting Bono to re-record vocals 20 years later* among other things then there's no point. they might as well just re-record fresh vocals/guitar parts/whatever on the actual Final versions of the songs themselves, and put that on a bonus disc as something of equal curiosity value and interest. Just as they may do with Pop if they DO get round to re-recording it as I know a lot of people are hoping they will for the re-issue.**

It might sound like I'm moaning unnecessarily but it's just another case of U2 seeming physically unable to just leave things alone. I understand maybe a song on this demo disc was missing was lyric or whatever, but it's a demo.
that's the point. to offer an alternative angle on an album in the form of unfinished versions of tracks we know and love. U2 fans won't have a heart attack if they put out a demo version of Achtung Baby as a bonus disc with an incomplete track on it. (or maybe they will) but going back and adding a 50 year old Bono's vocals to stuff is just silly..

*I haven't HEARD these yet but reading this thread it appears that the new vocals are what are being contested here? Is that right? I'm happy to be wrong. Also niceman, I'm not singling out your post specifically and trying to have a go at you, I just read the last few pages and gave it some thought and yours is the post that made me think suddenly what to write!

** now they've opened the gates with a whole Alternative version of Achtung Baby, maybe they actually WILL end up doing their re-imagined Pop like they always suggested??

Imagine if something you'd recorded was going to be listened to by millions of people for decades... maybe even centuries. You'd tweak. We'd all tweak.

It's like when they release a "live"version of a song and they fix the one flubbed line or the one mistake on the guitar. Yeah, it's more extreme than that, but the same thing.

 

[corianderstem]

Has this thread turned into discussions about foreign people now? If so, I'd like to discuss further. I generally dislike foreigners....and women.

I thought you just hated bands that had women singers ... does that now include foreign singers? What does that mean for your U2 fandom? I worry.

Do you also hate the band Foreigner, by default?

 

[Niceman]

Well, if I don't get it Tuesday, I'll certainly be raising a stink to get the extra shipping cost refunded to me.

I've definitely ordered stuff to be delivered on release dates before, however, and I don't recall ever not having got something on that day. (I might be wrong about it, but I don't think I would have automatically gone for it here if I'd had problems with it in the past. Maybe my memory is failing. )

Amazon will certainly refund the shipping, and maybe another $5, if its a day late. They have great customer service policies.

 

[corianderstem]

Yeah, I generally have had no issues with them.