Achtung Baby/ Zooropa remaster/ reissue - Part V/Five

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Nick66 said:
I've already said a new master was created, that's not in dispute. I'm not even arguing about the technical definition of remaster. But U2 isn't calling it "remastered". That should be what governs here.

I'll repost what I did before for those who are still confused by the issue:

You could say that any time you've made an alteration to the original recording and created a new master it's a "remaster." And that's certainly happened here. It's definitely not the same record we already have. It will certainly be louder, and, according to Edge, the've "polished" it, which likely means some tweaking on some of the other levels. This is more akin to what was done for the compilation releases, and what some of us suspected and said they'd do all along. It really was never likely they'd reissue the album without doing something to it along these lines, to make the levels more in line w/contemporary releases. But as others have accurately said, any such adjustments would be limited to the dynamic range of the existing master recording (though, without getting technical, professional equipment can tweak this to a certain extent).

Incidentally, those who say this is something similar to what you could do at home are essentially correct. If you take a existing digital audio Achtung Baby song file on your computer, adjust the levels, and create a new file from that, you've essentially created a new "master." As others have correctly pointed out, people on U2 bootleg sites do this all the time. U2's essentially doing the same here, albeit with professional equipment and engineers.

On the other hand, Achtung Baby has certainly not been "remastered" in the way that the previous reissues were, so much so that U2 is not calling it a remaster. A true remaster would involve going back to the sources tapes (whether they're analogue or digital), and from those individual recordings creating a new "final" sound and "master" for the record. Sometimes this process can even result in a completely new sounding "mix" of the song, though not necessarily. They also may clean up tape hiss, errant noises heard in the studio, etc. This is what was done for the previous remasters, but U2 apparently didn't think all this was necessary in the case of Achtung Baby.

The original press releases, and associated materials, for all the other reissues described this process of going back to the original source tapes. Here's an example from the Joshua Tree, but the info for all the releases is easily found on Google:


This is a much more extensive process than simply "re-EQ'ng" the existing, finished recording, which is what apparently U2 did here. And clearly a true remaster going back to the source tapes is not something you can do at home.

So really, everyone should have a reason to be happy with this, because AB as it existed sounded great and apparently represented the original intent of the artist, so they've just cleaned it up a bit without compromising the original sound. As long as what they did didn't result in over compression, etc....it should sound "better", and it will certainly sound different to some extent (your mileage may vary depending on your equipment, what format you're listening in, how familiar you are with the original, and most importantly, your ears). It should definitely sound noticeably louder, and careful listeners may hear increased clarity and depending on what they did, along with other sonic "improvements."

Whether it can be called "remastered" or not at this point is really a question of semantics...though the band certainly doesn't consider it "remastered", at least in the way the previous ones were, so if their opinion about their own record means anything to you, there's your answer.
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The opinion of U2 regarding their own record? Mate, if they consider HTDAAB a great record... do you really thing i'd consider their word regarding technical stuff like remastering?
 
u2passenger said:
polls_InternetFight_5800_563139_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg
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12 posts on here and you're already jumping into pie fights?

I smell a zombie....
 
Nick, are we positive that the source of the new master wasn't the original source tapes? Of course it wasn't the original pre-mix tapes, because that would be a re-mix, not just a re-master. But was it the two-channel mixdown or was it the original master from which the new master was created? I'm not sure this question has actually ever been answered.

I'm sorry for keeping this debate going... but I feel like this question should be asked.
 
OpenG180 said:
The opinion of U2 regarding their own record? Mate, if they consider HTDAAB a great record... do you really thing i'd consider their word regarding technical stuff like remastering?
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Completely non-responsive, besides the point and specious, but since we're supposed to be dropping this, I'll let you have the last word.
 
what part of let it go is no one understanding? this isn't an unreasonable request. plenty of discussion's already been had about this topic and it's to the point where it's now preventing other discussion from occurring. if anyone wants to continue discussing it, you can pm each other.

not cool to ignore me to make one last point, nick. i know this since you had to scroll past my initial post to reply to the one you did first.
 
Baby Love is blindness is giving me a Pink Floyd-ish vibe... Shine on you crazy diamond...
 
digitize said:
Nick, are we positive that the source of the new master wasn't the original source tapes? Of course it wasn't the original pre-mix tapes, because that would be a re-mix, not just a re-master. But was it the two-channel mixdown or was it the original master from which the new master was created? I'm not sure this question has actually ever been answered.

I'm sorry for keeping this debate going... but I feel like this question should be asked.
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OK, since you're asking civilly and genuinely, I'll go ahead an answer. :) If you look in my post above, re: The Joshua Tree, you'll see that for that, and every other release, U2 specifically said they went back to "the original tapes."
That's nowhere to be found here.

Morever, look at the McCormick tweets (and he's certainly in a position to know), which are pretty clear:

neil_mccormick Neil McCormick
In answer to queries about Achtung Baby, I went to the source. It hasn't been remastered because it "didn't need to be. It's been sonically tweaked & polished but not, technically, remastered. #U2 #Achtung
21 Oct
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I'm just telling you what I've been told. Not remastered. But tweaked & boosted. Its definitely louder. #U2 #Achtung
21 Oct
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I'm not sure how people can argue with that, plus the fact that the liner notes don't say remastered, plus the fact that U2.com deliberately removed "remaster" from their listing...but some apparently can.
 
KhanadaRhodes said:
what part of let it go is no one understanding? this isn't an unreasonable request. plenty of discussion's already been had about this topic and it's to the point where it's now preventing other discussion from occurring. if anyone wants to continue discussing it, you can pm each other.

not cool to ignore me to make one last point, nick. i know this since you had to scroll past my initial post to reply to the one you did first.
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No...didn't see it, really. I just respond to Digitizes question, because he didn't seem to be going for a pie fight. Anyway, I'm done with it.
 
Nick66 said:
OK, since you're asking civilly and genuinely, I'll go ahead an answer. :) If you look in my post above, re: The Joshua Tree, you'll see that for that, and every other release, U2 specifically said they went back to "the original tapes."
That's nowhere to be found here.

Morever, look at the McCormick tweets (and he's certainly in a position to know), which are pretty clear:







I'm not sure how people can argue with that, plus the fact that the liner notes don't say remastered, plus the fact that U2.com deliberately removed "remaster" from their listing...but some apparently can.
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As Barney Sumner once said: "I heard this sound for a thousand years Such a sad song it goes forever on"...
 
Why can't people figure out that digital masters don't have to be remastered? That's for analog. What U2 need is an immersion release like with the Pink Floyd blu-rays which is like the masters. At that point it's the best it can sound. They have to "polish" and "boost" it because the CD loses a lot of sound quality from the master so they have to mitigate that with some loudness (hopefully not too much) so we can hear more.
 
purpleoscar said:
Why can't people figure out that digital masters don't have to be remastered? That's for analog. What U2 need is an immersion release like with the Pink Floyd blu-rays which is like the masters. At that point it's the best it can sound. They have to "polish" and "boost" it because the CD loses a lot of sound quality from the master so they have to mitigate that with some loudness (hopefully not too much) so we can hear more.
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Blu-rays, DVD-A, SACD even... that would be an audiophile dream come true... Pink Floyd really got it right.
 
Nick66 said:
OK, since you're asking civilly and genuinely, I'll go ahead an answer. :) If you look in my post above, re: The Joshua Tree, you'll see that for that, and every other release, U2 specifically said they went back to "the original tapes."
That's nowhere to be found here.

Morever, look at the McCormick tweets (and he's certainly in a position to know), which are pretty clear:

I'm not sure how people can argue with that, plus the fact that the liner notes don't say remastered, plus the fact that U2.com deliberately removed "remaster" from their listing...but some apparently can.
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Alright, thanks, I appreciate it. The argument about The Joshua Tree explicitly saying that they went to the source tapes is what convinces me the most, since they were careful to emulate the language on TJT to some degree on this re-release, and what they changed is telling.
 
digitize said:
Pop was the first digitally recorded U2 album. And no, a digitally-recorded album can be remastered.
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Well then they obviously felt it didn't need much. Do they store the analog masters better in the 90's than before? I remember the Gold CD of UF sounded better on some songs than the recent remaster since the tapes have deteriorated since the time the Gold CD came out.
 
Might i suggest the mods split this thread/ make a new thread for the remaster debate?

They have a point that it's preventing discussion about the actual material, but at the same time, clearly a lot of people want to discuss whether it's remastered or not. :shrug:

So... two threads?
 
Amazon bullshit:

You are now connected to Diana from Amazon.com.
Me:Why has my order not shipped yet? It is guaranteed by Tuesday.

Diana:Hello Adam, my name is Diana. I’m sorry to hear your order hasn't shipped. I'll be glad to help you.

Me:thanks

Diana:Let me look into this. One moment, please.

Me:eek:k

Diana:This is regarding the order for the Achtung Baby (Super Deluxe Edition), correct?

Me:yes

Diana:What happens is that this item is not yet released.
It will be released Nov 1st

Me:I paid to have it release day
Usually Amazon ships on Friday for an item released tuseday

Diana:I'm sorry Adam, but this item will likely be shipped on the release date, Nov 1st.

Me:Thats wrong. When I ordered it was guarenteed for Tuesday delivery

Diana:If you like I can upgrade your shipping to 1 Day Shipping free of charge so you receive your order as soon as possible.
We will send you an email confirming the package is shipped.

Me:will I have it on Tuesady?

Diana:It should arrive Nov 1st, yes.

Me:eek:k, as long as the upgraded shipping gets it here tuesday

Diana:No problem Adam, I will send you an email confirming this for you with my name signed at the bottom.

Me:eek:k. thanks

Diana:You're welcome Adam! If you need help with anything else please let us know. Thank you for contacting Amazon.com and have a great day!

Me:you too. thanks
 
buddhabone said:
Amazon bullshit:

You are now connected to Diana from Amazon.com.
Me:Why has my order not shipped yet? It is guaranteed by Tuesday.

Diana:Hello Adam, my name is Diana. I’m sorry to hear your order hasn't shipped. I'll be glad to help you.

Me:thanks

Diana:Let me look into this. One moment, please.

Me:eek:k

Diana:This is regarding the order for the Achtung Baby (Super Deluxe Edition), correct?

Me:yes

Diana:What happens is that this item is not yet released.
It will be released Nov 1st

Me:I paid to have it release day
Usually Amazon ships on Friday for an item released tuseday

Diana:I'm sorry Adam, but this item will likely be shipped on the release date, Nov 1st.

Me:Thats wrong. When I ordered it was guarenteed for Tuesday delivery

Diana:If you like I can upgrade your shipping to 1 Day Shipping free of charge so you receive your order as soon as possible.
We will send you an email confirming the package is shipped.

Me:will I have it on Tuesady?

Diana:It should arrive Nov 1st, yes.

Me:eek:k, as long as the upgraded shipping gets it here tuesday

Diana:No problem Adam, I will send you an email confirming this for you with my name signed at the bottom.

Me:eek:k. thanks

Diana:You're welcome Adam! If you need help with anything else please let us know. Thank you for contacting Amazon.com and have a great day!

Me:you too. thanks
Click to expand...

I bought it from Amazon Deutschland and they sent it via DHL with tracking number two days ago...
 
That's bullshit - I specifically shelled out for the option that said "want it on November 1"? Now they're going to tell me I have to shell out more?

I'm going to go over there and tell them as much (without the cursing, as I too have felt the hell of customer service jobs).
 
It's not like my world will end if it comes Wednesday instead of Tuesday - I can just switch my vacation day to spend some quality time with it. ;)
 
It's not an extra day's wait that has me crying "bullshit," it's that I paid extra for something, and maybe they'll tell me I'll have to pay more to get what I was supposed to get initially? No.
 
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