Songs of Ascent - Part III
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U2DMfan
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Discotheque quite famously is U2's last (and might be last ever) top 10 hit in America.
So, those numbers above^ might need to be double checked.
To go further on that item, Bono was quoted in an interview (I can find it if need be) that the reason POP didn't work in America was because Disco wasn't a big enough hit.
A top 10 hit...wasn't big enough. And now they can't buy one of those.
Never mind why they even want one...
This all sort of encapsulates the problem in a nutshell.
And it's not changing. All you need to do is read their latest words.
So, those numbers above^ might need to be double checked.
To go further on that item, Bono was quoted in an interview (I can find it if need be) that the reason POP didn't work in America was because Disco wasn't a big enough hit.
A top 10 hit...wasn't big enough. And now they can't buy one of those.
Never mind why they even want one...
This all sort of encapsulates the problem in a nutshell.
And it's not changing. All you need to do is read their latest words.
ozeeko
Refugee
Agreed, and this ties into what i've been saying all along, that they're trying way too hard to find a song that will rip through the universe.
Let us not forget that they actually were TALKED INTO releasing With Or Without You.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Ozeeko, I'm not going to quote your whole post from the last page but that was really well-thought out.
Flaming Friar Sr
Refugee
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yes, its peak position was 10
Flaming Friar Sr
Refugee
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word
dan_smee
ONE love, blood, life
honestly, who cares about radio these days. The morons that listen to radio are going bananas over lady gaga or some such garbage... who the fuck wants to appeal to that sort of audience anyway.
From a bands perspective, the pull is offering some quality to the untrained ears of todays fast food generation, but still why do we even give it a second thought?
From a bands perspective, the pull is offering some quality to the untrained ears of todays fast food generation, but still why do we even give it a second thought?
How could a song that was both a very big tune and has become a classic live be a filler? The simplicity of Vertigo is in fact what makes it far better than NS because it lays the emphasis on what makes this song so great: the amazing guitar riff. "Less is more" you remember? Native Son is neither catchy nor original just a very common U2 song, one with no clear and original music concept or direction, like they have already written hundreds which are far better.
I know this is very common here for people to consider that they know better than the band about what is great tune and what is not but for me I'm totally confident with what they will choose to do because I think that they have almost always made the right choices. Of course they had they are the best rock band in the world for more than twenty years now. If you're not able to understand why they made some of these choices even if these choices were successful that's more certainly your problem than theirs.
yenlard
War Child
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correct me if im wrong.........but isnt it the same guitar riff with different lyrics
i agree that native son is more raw and has a bit more bite. however, i dont know if it would have had the same appeal with those lyrics. the band probably made the right decision. still......i like native son a bit more
A couple things.
I really enjoy seeing the thoughtful back-and-forth about SOA's potential release timing. I'm swayed by both arguments, and so right now I'm at a compromise position: Oct/Nov 2010. This is what McGuinness is going to be pushing for and it also allows the band the extra time they'll feel like they need to tweak it. The fact that non-Bono band members are even talking about wanting to get this out sooner rather than later implies that they are thinking about actual time frames for a release. Even if Larry won't mention it, he has a goal in mind, and I'm guessing it's mid/late 2010. Anything after that, and I don't think we'd be hearing all this talk. Delays may crop up, of course, but I'm thinking we have a 33% chance of seeing an album in spring 2010 and 75% chance of getting it by late 2010. If it doesn't make that date, then we'll probably never see the SOA album that we/the band is talking about now. They'll take some stuff from it, sure, but if it can't be the NLOTH/360 tour sister album, they'll probably start moving the next LP into different territory.
Re: the ongoing Vertigo discussion. I find it somewhat bizarre that most people seem to love one and hate the other. It isn't like this is BD vs. Always. Even with the disparate lyrics, it seems like most people who like one would also like the other, and those who dislike one would dislike the other. Anyway, maybe that's still the case, and only those with strong opinions are voicing them. I enjoy both, although neither would probably crack my top 50. But after seeing U2 last week in Charlottesville, this at least is undeniable: Vertigo is a massive live song and their set is much better for having it in there (at least if you're on the floor/field). Bono really comes alive for that one.
I really enjoy seeing the thoughtful back-and-forth about SOA's potential release timing. I'm swayed by both arguments, and so right now I'm at a compromise position: Oct/Nov 2010. This is what McGuinness is going to be pushing for and it also allows the band the extra time they'll feel like they need to tweak it. The fact that non-Bono band members are even talking about wanting to get this out sooner rather than later implies that they are thinking about actual time frames for a release. Even if Larry won't mention it, he has a goal in mind, and I'm guessing it's mid/late 2010. Anything after that, and I don't think we'd be hearing all this talk. Delays may crop up, of course, but I'm thinking we have a 33% chance of seeing an album in spring 2010 and 75% chance of getting it by late 2010. If it doesn't make that date, then we'll probably never see the SOA album that we/the band is talking about now. They'll take some stuff from it, sure, but if it can't be the NLOTH/360 tour sister album, they'll probably start moving the next LP into different territory.
Re: the ongoing Vertigo discussion. I find it somewhat bizarre that most people seem to love one and hate the other. It isn't like this is BD vs. Always. Even with the disparate lyrics, it seems like most people who like one would also like the other, and those who dislike one would dislike the other. Anyway, maybe that's still the case, and only those with strong opinions are voicing them. I enjoy both, although neither would probably crack my top 50. But after seeing U2 last week in Charlottesville, this at least is undeniable: Vertigo is a massive live song and their set is much better for having it in there (at least if you're on the floor/field). Bono really comes alive for that one.
powerhour24
ONE love, blood, life
I do like both, but for different reasons, there's no doubt that NS wouldn't have been the same hit Vertigo was, I just happen to like it as a song better, that decision does play into the whole rework material into potential singles mentality, whether you think it was improved or not its pretty obvious that's what the idea behind changing it was. As for not being 'as catchy as Vertigo'... besides the 'Hello, Hello' bit borrowed from Stories for Boys... the vocal melody remains much the same from NS.
Snowlock
Refugee
heh, you must be a newer fan. I'm not trying to be negative, but none of this is evidence of anything and much of it has been heard before.
To point one - After every album there's always an albums worth of material
To point two - The album doesn't have a name. The only one who has used that name is bono and even he calls it a provisional title
To point three - This is possibly true. But Native Son was a first single as well. I know; the timing as you mention is significant. But the mere fact of having a completed good song has never stopped U2 from reworking it.
To the last point - All the buzz in 2006 as they were completing the Vertigo tour was about how fast they were going to turn around the next album. They had been writing on tour, Rick Rubin was a speed demon in the studio, Larry says at the end of the last show of the tour "See you soon" etc etc etc. Ha, yah, three years later.
Lastly Bono is talking about charts, and it's pretty reasonable to assume McG is as well. And both have attributed at least in part the lack of "success" of NLOTH was due to the economy and the release date. I seriously doubt they'll do anything but a 4th quarter release again. Especially if 360 tickets are still selling out without the need of a new album.
So at minimum, we're talking fall 2010, I think. And that's a lot of time for them to go back and look at that material and decide to shelve it, rework it, splice it together, etc etc.
I'm optimistic, but I'm also a long time fan that's familiar with their m.o.
Catman
Rock n' Roll Doggie
In all honesty, I'm banking on summer/ fall '10... which is really impressive given that it will be the shortest period between U2 records since Rattle & Hum. IMO, I think the band will want some new material to toy around with come their next U.S. gigs.
Roland of Gilead
Gunslinger
I really think its closer than some think. Aside from dan smee's comments, I want to add (if it hasn't already been mentioned) that it has been very unlike U2 to see 3 single releases for No Line... without ONE original b-side song. I think this has never happened before for a U2 album release. A sister album with some degree of themes linking songs to No Line is inevitable because of this. October 28th (Vancouver) - May 30th (Mexico). 7 months. An intentional gap created. Seems like an awfully long break to think that the 360 Tour is just going to pause and restart with nothing new, in terms of new songs, to promote it.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Yes, there is a 7 month break, and I'm sure the band will be writing and recording, but who's to say they will actually FINISH it in that span? Ideally they'd throw caution to the wind and not second-guess everything into oblivion, but these aren't the same guys who banged out a whole album in three months back in 1993.
Worst case scenario, I still think we'll hear a new song or two on tour next summer.
Worst case scenario, I still think we'll hear a new song or two on tour next summer.
Roland of Gilead
Gunslinger
You're right. Its not 1993. The difference being that there is an intentional withholding of original material on the b-sides of No Line's singles. I call it a head start. Made on purpose.
so the songs for real contention for this upcoming project are....(please no comments about ugh i hate that or no way...just for factual purposes)
1. winter- released but finished?
2. Mercy- no comments
3. not as yet- edge's photo with list
4. all my life- rubin sessions?
5. kingdom- we have all heard this one
6. every breaking wave - bono talked about it-u2 white board
1. winter- released but finished?
2. Mercy- no comments
3. not as yet- edge's photo with list
4. all my life- rubin sessions?
5. kingdom- we have all heard this one
6. every breaking wave - bono talked about it-u2 white board
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
your argument to point 2 is not accurate. when the album was released, all 4 members mentioned the title "Songs Of Ascent". also, since then, band members not named Bono have been specifically asked about "Songs Of Ascent" and have never denied the name.
i truly understand the doubting, and i still do a little myself, but let's not let the past cloud what's really happening here.
mikal, I am in awe of your level-headedness and unwavering pursuit of the truth.
+50 pts
An Cat Gav
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
They've ben witholding b-sides for a long time though, about ten years.
elevated_u2_fan
Blue Crack Supplier
there were a few for ATYCLB, but after that, both Bomb and No Line have given us pretty much nothing...
Roland of Gilead
Gunslinger
Summer Rain
Always
Big Girls Are Best
Are You Gonna Wait Forever?
Always
Big Girls Are Best
Are You Gonna Wait Forever?
the last one I can really think of is "are you gonna wait forever" (vertigo single) and the song was from the "behind" sessions. (eno list r and r hall of fame.)
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U2DMfan
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
In other words, let's not let the past remind us that the past is probably being repeated for the fifth time, rather than miraculously ending after the fourth.
Is that what you mean, mikal?
Roland of Gilead
Gunslinger
As well, not exactly "b-side" by definition (being released on a single), but important in that U2 were releasing new material outside of the album-
Initially for an iTunes boxset release:
Love You Like Mad
Flower Child
Levitate
Smile
I count 8 tracks. Excluding Xanax and Wine and Native Son. Also excluding Fast Cars being a common bonus album track.
Initially for an iTunes boxset release:
Love You Like Mad
Flower Child
Levitate
Smile
I count 8 tracks. Excluding Xanax and Wine and Native Son. Also excluding Fast Cars being a common bonus album track.
The reality is that we need to balance what's happened in the recent past with what makes this case unique. I've seen post after post try to equate the current situation with ATYCLB and HTDAAB delays, and these always--willfully or not--minimize or blow off the sui generis aspects of where we are right now.
The optimism, as compared to past scenarios, is warranted.
The optimism, as compared to past scenarios, is warranted.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
yep. this is exactly what i'm trying to get across.
dan_smee
ONE love, blood, life
I have been a u2 fan since I was 11 in 1997. I have seen and experienced everything they said after Pop, ATYCLB and HTDAAB. I outlined why this time appears to be different
Sketches or ideas, not songs in the can, being used as intro music for the tour, or eing talked about as the first single from the already named album
See Mikal's post. They have all mentioned it, and answered questions on it, and even the slow u2.com has used the name in articles. We also have all of the photos from the NLOTH book that clearly separates the sessions into two albums, one was called NLOTH, one was called Songs of Ascent even then.
Native Son was never released as a single...
it is the early version of Vertigo, and if it had been released in Vertigo's place, there is no way it would have had anywhere near the impact. In my opinion, With NS and Vertigo, U2 reworked a good song, and made it a hit single, and a live classicIt happened after ATYCLB as well. Your comments support my arguement. I am not saying it hasnt happened before, I am saying this time seems different. As opposed to a vague 'see you soon' after the last show of a 2 years tour, we have an album name, first single and all band members were tlaking about it only a month after NLOTH was released. There is no comparison.
If the release in the 4th quarter, they are competing with a plethora of other bands who are also trying to cash in on the xmas dollars. If they have a hit single, the album will sell regardless, and there will be less people trying to sell their wears at the same time, therefore more buyers in the market with less money they want to spend cd's at the time.
That was the date I suggested! I find it strange you take the time to deconstruct my entire post and then agree with me at the end!
The important point for everyone to take on board is this:
While we have seen the band talk about quick turnarounds after the last 3 albums, this time we have solid information, concrete names of albums, songs and a rough timetable. The tour dates are so spread out, highly unusual for a 7-9 month break in the middle of a tour! They are obviously giving themselves the time they feel they require to finish the project. Adams comments are the only ones that seem inconsistant, and that most likely indicates that he is trying to add a bit of secrecy to the project
dan_smee
ONE love, blood, life
sorry Swan, it was Brian Hiatt! I forgot which of the two it was
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