US Politics II

[AEON]

Trump has a very large base (and many are silent about their support). However, just because some white nationalist feel Trump is their man - that doesn't make it true. How many white nationalists actually showed up to march? A few hundred? This is not a mass movement. However - it could be become one if they keep getting attacked by ANTIFA . Which I am sure BOTH groups want...a civil war.

Didn't Donald Trump win some award from the NAACP? I haven't read any overtly racist quotes coming from Trump.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

@Yoojin_Cho: Russell Walker filed a lawsuit in York SC, demanding confederate flags be returned to the main courtroom @SpecNewsCLT https://twitter.com/Yoojin_Cho/status/900725436556161024/video/1

 

[AEON]

That's before they had a racist in the White House supporting them.

Let's not pretend that these are normal times.

These people are beyond deplorable. But let's all the rest of us stay home while they march with torches screaming obscenities openly armed, their numbers and prominence increasing due to becoming an acceptable wing of your ruling party. Sorry, some of us are from Europe, unlike you, we know where these things tend to go.

You seriously need examples?

Well, let's see, there's this bit about Mexicans from the start of his campaign:



And there's more where that came from in this link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...lse-comments-connecting-mexican-immigrants-an

There's also his belief that a judge would be biased against him because of their Mexican heritage, the full transcript of which can be found here:

Donald Trump's racial comments about Hispanic judge in Trump University case | PolitiFact Wisconsin

And the granddaddy of them all: his years-long quest to try and prove that Obama wasn't born in the U.S.:



The full timeline of the birther conspiracy nonsense, and Trump's association with it, can be found here:

What Donald Trump has said through the years about where President Obama was born - LA Times

The mere fact that actual neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and KKK members, as noted in the article Irvine shared, have outright credited Trump with inspiring them should also be more than enough proof to you that they clearly they saw something in his messaging that encouraged them. As should David Duke's outright endorsement of Trump last year.

These don't seem like examples of racism to me. They are way too vague for such a serious charge. I'm looking for a comment like "all blacks are (insert insult), all Mexicans are (insert insult), the N-word...anything. Additionally, all presidents will have fringe supporters - that doesn't make the president the same as the fringe. If that were true - that would make Pres. Obama the same as BLM ,

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Trump has a very large base (and many are silent about their support). However, just because some white nationalist feel Trump is their man - that doesn't make it true. How many white nationalists actually showed up to march? A few hundred? This is not a mass movement. However - it could be become one if they keep getting attacked by ANTIFA . Which I am sure BOTH groups want...a civil war.

Didn't Donald Trump win some award from the NAACP? I haven't read any overtly racist quotes coming from Trump.

Workers at Trump’s casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, have accused him of racism over the years. The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino$200,000 in 1992 because managers would remove African-American card dealers at the request of a certain big-spending gambler. A state appeals court upheld the fine.

The first-person account of at least one black Trump casino employee in Atlantic City suggests the racist practices were consistent with Trump’s personal behavior toward black workers.

“When Donald and Ivana came to the casino, the bosses would order all the black people off the floor,” Kip Brown, a former employee at Trump’s Castle, told The New Yorker for a 2015 article. “It was the eighties, I was a teen-ager, but I remember it: they put us all in the back.”

Trump allegedly disparaged his black casino employees as “lazy” in vividly bigoted terms, according to a 1991 book by John O’Donnell, a former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino.

“And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” O’Donnell recalled Trump saying. “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“I think the guy is lazy,” Trump said of a black employee, according to O’Donnell. “And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

Trump told an interviewer in 1997 that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true,” but in 1999 accused O’Donnell of having fabricated the quotes.

Trump has also faced charges of reneging on commitments to hire black people. In 1996, 20 African-Americans in Indianasued Trumpfor failing to honor a promise to hire mostly minority workers for a riverboat casino on Lake Michigan.

When Trump was serving as the president of his family’s real estate company, the Trump Management Corporation, in 1973, the Justice Department sued the company for alleged racial discrimination against black people looking to rent apartments in the Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island boroughs of New York City.

The lawsuit charged that the company quoted different rental terms and conditions to black rental candidates than it did to white candidates, and that the company lied to black applicants about apartments not being available. Trump called those accusations “absolutely ridiculous” and sued the Justice Department for $100 million in damages for defamation.

Without admitting wrongdoing, the Trump Management Corporation settled the original lawsuit two years later and promised not to discriminate against black people, Puerto Ricans or other minorities. Trump also agreed to send weekly vacancy lists for his 15,000 apartments to the New York Urban League, a civil rights group,and to allow the NYUL to present qualified applicants for vacancies in certain Trump properties.

Just three years after that, the Justice Department sued the Trump Management Corporation again for allegedly discriminating against black applicants by telling them apartments weren’t available.

At a campaign appearance in California in June, Trump boasted that he had a black supporter in the crowd, saying, “Look at my African-American over here.”

“Look at him,” Trump continued. “Are you the greatest?”

Perhaps you haven't been looking hard enough (or, ya know, at all)

 

[Irvine511]

Which I am sure BOTH groups want...a civil war.

this is where you are wrong and are being played by right wing media.

they want you to think both groups are the same, but the groups aren't the same. you are mindlessly equivocating between anti-Semetic racists and people who are neither anti-Semetic nor racist.

stop being a simpleton who wants to be fooled because it feels good to live with the delusion that Trump is anything but a con artist who only cares about himself.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

One group is Nazis.

The other isn't.

I have many issues with those far to the left of my own political standing. But they aren't Nazis. So in any fight with real actual Nazis and those who associate with real actual Nazis?

Yea. Non Nazis win.

Why is this hard?

 

[Irvine511]

These don't seem like examples of racism to me. They are way too vague for such a serious charge. I'm looking for a comment like "all blacks are (insert insult), all Mexicans are (insert insult), the N-word...anything. Additionally, all presidents will have fringe supporters - that doesn't make the president the same as the fringe. If that were true - that would make Pres. Obama the same as BLM ,

while Obama isn't the same as BLM, you're making that mistake again where you're comparing white supremacists to BLM.

stop doing that. it's incorrect.

also, that's a pretty high bar there -- basically, you need Trump in a hood before you'll believe anything otherwise?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

These don't seem like examples of racism to me. They are way too vague for such a serious charge. I'm looking for a comment like "all blacks are (insert insult), all Mexicans are (insert insult), the N-word...anything.

...you do realize that racism isn't always that overt, right? Please tell me you're playing naive or something here with this.

How on earth is the constant insinuation that Obama wasn't born here NOT racist at its core? How is Trump going around claiming most Mexicans are criminals, thus contributing to all the negative stereotypes about them, not a racist/xenophobic sentiment?

Additionally, all presidents will have fringe supporters - that doesn't make the president the same as the fringe. If that were true - that would make Pres. Obama the same as BLM ,

Once again, BLM is not comparable to the neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups. Quit trying to act like they're one and the same.

Also, Obama never ran a campaign or presidency that insulted and stereotyped minority groups, and any supporters of his who did go on to commit violent acts (which were few and far between, unlike the rise in hate crimes that's been reported since Trump took office), he immediately called them out for doing so. Trump's campaign and presidency, on the other hand, have consisted of nothing but insults and stereotypical remarks towards other people. The only people he's ever praised are his supporters and himself. He's said exactly the sorts of things his base wanted to hear, and he hired people to work on his campaign and in his administration that echoed those racist and xenophobic beliefs, like Bannon, and further added to the racist and xenophobic sentiments with things like his travel ban, that just added to the anti-Muslim sentiment, and his border wall, which adds to the anti-immigrant sentiment.

 

[BVS]

These don't seem like examples of racism to me. They are way too vague for such a serious charge.

This is what's wrong with so much of Trump's base, unless I hear the word '******' it's just glorified hyperbole.

He can say a man is unqualified due to the color of his skin.

He can say being married to a brown person will make a person weak on immigration.

He can say only a few of them are good people.

He can post a crime meme about blacks created by a neo-nazi.

But he hasn't said ****** yet.

THEN the hate groups who have said they are emboldened and have an ally in the WH will have a reason to like Trump.

THIS is how we got here. Fuck us.

 

[Wide Awake n AZ]

there is an organised Antifa group here

They may organize locally and call themselves whatever, but there aren't chapters with some larger organization.

I could start a Facebook group of "Arizona Antifa" and get people involved and do what we do. But it wasn't anything but something I just made up. I didn't pay dues to the central team and get patches for our gas masks.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

This is what's wrong with so much of Trump's base, unless I hear the word '******' it's just glorified hyperbole.

Yep.

And even when we do get something as blatant as what happened in Charlottesville, people STILL try and find ways to excuse, justify, or downplay it.

 

[BVS]

Yep.



And even when we do get something as blatant as what happened in Charlottesville, people STILL try and find ways to excuse, justify, or downplay it.

Or even feel sorry for the poor bullied Nazis.

 

[anitram]

Amitram is arguing this. She is saying that white nationalist should not be allowed to march because we should know "where these things tend to go"

Don't lie. Just because your president is a pathological liar doesn't mean you need to lie as well.

I said, and I quote:

But let's all the rest of us stay home while they march with torches screaming obscenities openly armed, their numbers and prominence increasing due to becoming an acceptable wing of your ruling party. Sorry, some of us are from Europe, unlike you, we know where these things tend to go.

WHERE in there did I even imply they should not be allowed to march??? My point is that the rest of us, antifa or not SHOULD NOT STAY HOME and absolutely should confront.

I can't believe I even had to write this post.

 

[anitram]

These don't seem like examples of racism to me. They are way too vague for such a serious charge. I'm looking for a comment like "all blacks are (insert insult), all Mexicans are (insert insult), the N-word...anything.

Of course you are.

Because to you anything short of the N-word is not racism.

Even Orgieporgie backed down from his ridiculous racism scale eventually...before he was outed as one of deplorables.

 

[BEAL]

Tom Arnold could settle all of what we already know

But it still wouldn't matter. Somehow having one black guy at his rallies would enable him to use the N-word, you know, cause he's probably the blackest white guy ever

 

[AEON]

Don't lie. Just because your president is a pathological liar doesn't mean you need to lie as well.

I said, and I quote:



WHERE in there did I even imply they should not be allowed to march??? My point is that the rest of us, antifa or not SHOULD NOT STAY HOME and absolutely should confront.

I can't believe I even had to write this post.

I suppose I took "confront" to mean "disrupt" - since that is what ANTIFA has been doing since Trump's inauguration - disrupting everything to conservative speakers at universities to Trump rallies.

I have no problem with a counter protest. I take issue (and so does the law) when they attack (smash people and burn property). Also - NAZI means "National Socialism" - are you suggesting the marchers, or Trump, are supporting National Socialism?

If people want the right to burn the American flag, then they have to accept the rights of those who want to wave a Confederate flag (or rainbow flag, or hammer and sickle flag...etc).

Again, allow the arguments to happen. Allow the white nationalist to march peacefully and speak at the universities without chaos. If there is nothing to their argument - it will fizzle out on its own.

 

[mama cass]

Also - NAZI means "National Socialism" - are you suggesting the marchers, or Trump, are supporting National Socialism?

they were carrying swastikas and doing Heil Trump salutes for fucks sakes, so what do YOU think? not Nazi?

but i guess in your line of reasoning you might say "being inspired by Nazis does not make one a Nazi - they were just fiiiiine young men"?

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I love this new breed of right wing. Trying to deny nazism because the folks aren't socialist.

It's almost as though this argument normalizes the word nazi as a legitimate socioeconomic-political philosophy. Almost like... "naw we aren't nazis we don't believe in the socialism part (but don't hate nazis just for their political leanings bro!)."

 

[BVS]

I suppose I took "confront" to mean "disrupt" - since that is what ANTIFA has been doing since Trump's inauguration - disrupting everything to conservative speakers at universities to Trump rallies.



I have no problem with a counter protest. I take issue (and so does the law) when they attack (smash people and burn property). Also - NAZI means "National Socialism" - are you suggesting the marchers, or Trump, are supporting National Socialism?



If people want the right to burn the American flag, then they have to accept the rights of those who want to wave a Confederate flag (or rainbow flag, or hammer and sickle flag...etc).



Again, allow the arguments to happen. Allow the white nationalist to march peacefully and speak at the universities without chaos. If there is nothing to their argument - it will fizzle out on its own.

You really need to walk away from Breitbart every once in awhile. Please.

 

[Irvine511]

I suppose I took "confront" to mean "disrupt" - since that is what ANTIFA has been doing since Trump's inauguration - disrupting everything to conservative speakers at universities to Trump rallies.

had you heard of ANTIFA before Charlottesville?

be honest.

 

[AEON]

...you do realize that racism isn't always that overt, right? Please tell me you're playing naive or something here with this.

It is really only possible to discuss the qualities of another based on their words or actions. We shouldn't pretend we can read people's minds and just assume racism. Additionally, let's say his private thoughts ARE racist? So what? Are we now the thought police?

People are free to think what they want. It is only in their words and their actions can we truly assess them (and even that is limited).

How on earth is the constant insinuation that Obama wasn't born here NOT racist at its core? How is Trump going around claiming most Mexicans are criminals, thus contributing to all the negative stereotypes about them, not a racist/xenophobic sentiment?

Many people were insinuating Obama wasn't born in the US. Hillary Clinton was one of them - is she also racist?

Once again, BLM is not comparable to the neo-Nazis and white supremacist groups. Quit trying to act like they're one and the same.

True - BLM is far more violent and has been given a virtual free-pass from the press and the last Administration.

that just added to the anti-Muslim sentiment, and his border wall, which adds to the anti-immigrant sentiment.

President Bill Clinton proposed such a wall to a standing ovation from congress, is he a racist?

 

[mama cass]

I love this new breed of right wing. Trying to deny nazism because the folks aren't socialist.

It's almost as though this argument normalizes the word nazi as a legitimate socioeconomic-political philosophy. Almost like... "naw we aren't nazis we don't believe in the socialism part (but don't hate nazis just for their political leanings bro!)."

yeah but nazi style socialism was never socialism

 

[AEON]

had you heard of ANTIFA before Charlottesville?

be honest.

Yes, just after the election. I thought it was odd they dressed just like ISIS. Then again, they are pulling down statues....just like ISIS.

 

[Irvine511]

Yes, just after the election. I thought it was odd they dressed just like ISIS. Then again, they are pulling down statues....just like ISIS.

Why are you making ISIS comparisons? What do they have in common with ISIS other than nothing? Is all you have baseless innuendo? Is there nothing there other than trying to convince yourself that there are "two sides" when, in fact, there are Nazis and then everyone else?

 

[mama cass]

Why are you making ISIS comparisons? What do they have in common with ISIS other than nothing? Is all you have baseless innuendo?

Irvine, i know you meant it as a joke, but you may have been onto something in this case

If you don't know anything, it sounds Arabic. Which is going to become a problem.

 

[BVS]

It is really only possible to discuss the qualities of another based on their words or actions. We shouldn't pretend we can read people's minds and just assume racism. Additionally, let's say his private thoughts ARE racist? So what? Are we now the thought police?

No, not their words and actions, only the word. You've made that clear.

True - BLM is far more violent and has been given a virtual free-pass from the press and the last Administration.

Such a good little Breit disciple.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

yeah but nazi style socialism was never socialism

Lol I'm not arguing reality, I'm laughing at selective perception.

You know, saying someone isn't a nazi because they aren't socialist. Sort of ignores the whole social belief that everyone knows of nazis.

 

[AEON]

Well, I just gave you two examples. And you know what is funny - I've posted a few things for the time in years - and the amount of insults haven't changed. Why can't we have a debate without the personal "at my avatar"attacks? Many of you have made some great points in the past - but they are much more easily received when I don't have to sift through the old cliche eye rolls, stop reading (insert obvious Right Wing website). I am only here to engage in a discussion, because I like healthy debates about the hot issues of the day. I will often play devil's advocate because there are so few opposing views here. But those opposing views do exist and you cannot just "insult" them away. You will need to win the debate.

 

[Irvine511]

love the recycled right wing talking points.

Many people were insinuating Obama wasn't born in the US. Hillary Clinton was one of them - is she also racist?

where are you getting this?

True - BLM is far more violent and has been given a virtual free-pass from the press and the last Administration.

garbage. BLM hasn't run over anyone. it is not violent -- they do not belong in the same sentence as the Nazis you're so eager to defend.

President Bill Clinton proposed such a wall to a standing ovation from congress, is he a racist?

apples to oranges, and "build the wall" was THE centerpiece of his entire campaign especially saying he was building a wall to keep out all those Mexicans who were rapists and criminals.

 

[Irvine511]

Irvine, i know you meant it as a joke, but you may have been onto something in this case