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Old 09-24-2008, 08:00 PM   #321
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Yea, but I would hope that if someone is 'interviewing' for a promotion, they would want to be part of an issue that they could in fact be stuck with while they are President. I would think that they would do everything in their power to try to get the bill their way now before the possibility of having to deal with it while they are President.
Does some special light shine out of the two of their asses which will suddenly bring clarity to the 500+ members of Congress?

Come on, their physical presence is completely ancillary.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:06 PM   #322
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Does some special light shine out of the two of their asses which will suddenly bring clarity to the 500+ members of Congress?

Come on, their physical presence is completely ancillary.
No. They are all idiots. (see post in other thread).

But the fact is, McCain is concerned with an issue that could potentially effect him if he wins the election.

Now let's face it. We all know who will win the debates. Obama. You'd have to be stupid to believe McCain has a chance to win a debate. Obama is charismatic, and a great public speaker. McCain is just....well...how do I say....not.

And we are pretty sure who will probably win the election - Obama.

But still, no one has answered my question.

What if this was reversed and Obama was the one who rushed over and asked McCain to postpone the debate to solve this crisis....what would the Obama lovers think? I'm still waiting on an answer.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:07 PM   #323
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That may be. And it's entirely possible that it IS a cheap political trick. But I'll ask again, what if Obama did this, and not McCain? Would you say it's a political trick? Or would you think Obama is doing the right thing? Again, I'm split on both candidates as I like and dislike each equally. I'm playing devil's advocate here, so humor me.
I think it would have been taken more seriously coming from Obama, for even talking head Glen Beck admitted Obama has a better grasp than McCain, McCain even in conservative circles is considered completely incompetant when it comes to the economy. But I would rather have someone who can focus on both... No matter what happens one of these men are going to inherit this problem. So honestly, what happens between now and January 20th is crucial but can all change on Jan 20. It already sounds like the bailout is going to happen no matter what, I'd like to hear what Obama and McCain plan on doing after that...
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:08 PM   #324
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But still, no one has answered my question.

What if this was reversed and Obama was the one who rushed over and asked McCain to postpone the debate to solve this crisis....what would the Obama lovers think? I'm still waiting on an answer.
Um....

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I'd say the same thing because neither Obama nor McCain's physical presence is necessary to draft this bill. McCain, a man who said he doesn't understand the economy, who said that the fundamentals of the economy are strong just last week, and who is not a lawyer, is not going to be drafting this Bill.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:10 PM   #325
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I think it would have been taken more seriously coming from Obama, for even talking head Glen Beck admitted Obama has a better grasp than McCain, McCain even in conservative circles is considered completely incompetant when it comes to the economy. But I would rather have someone who can focus on both... No matter what happens one of these men are going to inherit this problem. So honestly, what happens between now and January 20th is crucial but can all change on Jan 20. It already sounds like the bailout is going to happen no matter what, I'd like to hear what Obama and McCain plan on doing after that...
Thank you for the response. I enjoyed reading that...twice. Seriously. Maybe it's just because I agree with what you said, but you answered my question.

Glen Beck. He's entertaining, if you can call it that, to watch. But I digress.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:10 PM   #326
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But the fact is, McCain is concerned with an issue that could potentially effect him if he wins the election.
Are you suggesting that Obama is not concerned?

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Now let's face it. We all know who will win the debates. Obama. You'd have to be stupid to believe McCain has a chance to win a debate. Obama is charismatic, and a great public speaker. McCain is just....well...how do I say....not.
And there is the perfect motive for McCain pulling a cheap political trick to buy him some time in debating Obama

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And we are pretty sure who will probably win the election - Obama.
Given how fucked up our political culture is, I'm not too sure about this.

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What if this was reversed and Obama was the one who rushed over and asked McCain to postpone the debate to solve this crisis....what would the Obama lovers think? I'm still waiting on an answer.
I would be thinking the same thing - Obama's attendance makes absolutely no difference to the bill. Postponing the debate does absolutely nothing to help solve this crisis.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:11 PM   #327
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Um....
My apologies anitram. I read over that.

Thanks for pointing it out to me, and thanks for your response to my question.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:11 PM   #328
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Does some special light shine out of the two of their asses which will suddenly bring clarity to the 500+ members of Congress?

Come on, their physical presence is completely ancillary.
There are 100 Senators

and the Senate is pretty evenly divided


It will take bi-partisan support to get anything done.

something must be done.

Senators and Congressmen (435) need to be able to line up behind their nominee, one of these two will be President and they each have to step up take a position and lead

Obama make like to just vote present and then go where ever this ends up.


He needs to prove he capable or working across the isle find a solution.

If he is a true leader he should roll up his sleeves and show the American people he capable of leadership and not just reading a TelePrompTer and saying "...this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal… etc."
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:14 PM   #329
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Intention of both men aside, when preparing for a profession of any kind who in their right mind wouldn't try to get experience when things get tough. Seeing how the two parties reach a compromise would be very beneficial for the next president. Someone running for that position should listen to everything and get educated because the economy will be one of the biggest issues for a very long time. McCain wants to help take action. Again, why just talk when you can educate yourself and be part of the action?

You do know McCain has been a member of Congress since 1983, don't you? He's had 25 years to become educated about economics and the US economy in particular but has not chosen to do so, even though there have been major ups and downs during that time. What on earth makes you think he will "get educated" in the next few days when he has shown absolutely no interest in it over the past 25 years?
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:15 PM   #330
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Are you suggesting that Obama is not concerned?
McCain appears to be more concerned than Obama because he's actually wanting to be apart of something that no matter who goes into office, will inherit.



[/QUOTE]And there is the perfect motive for McCain pulling a cheap political trick to buy him some time in debating Obama[/QUOTE]
Dirty political trick, indeed. The only thing he can do at this point to have a chance against Obama. If McCain was leading in the polls and he needed 20-30 electoral votes, and not Obama, I wouldn't be surprised it Obama would be doing the same thing. It's how the game is played.


[/QUOTE]I would be thinking the same thing - Obama's attendance makes absolutely no difference to the bill. Postponing the debate does absolutely nothing to help solve this crisis.[/QUOTE]

Yet Obama should be concerned since he is more likely to inherit this problem.

Especially since he's potentially going to win. One would think he'd want to be more involved with this issue.

Edit - I fucked this up. I haven't learned the fine art of multi-quoting yet.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:18 PM   #331
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There are 100 Senators

and the Senate is pretty evenly devided


It will take bi-partisan support to get anything done.

something must be done.

Senators and Congressmen (435) need to be able to line up behind their nominee, one of these two will be President and they each have to step up take a position and lead

Obama make like to just vote present and then go where ever this ends up.


He needs to prove he capable or working across the isle find a solution.

If he is a true leader he should roll up his sleves and show the American people he capable of leadership and not just reading a TelePrompTer and saying "now is the time the oceans have stopped rising, etc."


Very nice. I love what he has to say, but it's getting tiresome. As I said, he talks to the people like I talk to a chick at a bar - he says what we want to hear, like I say what the girl wants to hear.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:20 PM   #332
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Yea, but I would hope that if someone is 'interviewing' for a promotion, they would want to be part of an issue that they could in fact be stuck with while they are President. I would think that they would do everything in their power to try to get the bill their way now before the possibility of having to deal with it while they are President.
The bill is still in committee, and neither Obama or McCain are on the banking committee. They have already provided their opinions on what any bill should or should not have, and can communicate with their offices via phone or video conference. They would be a "fifth wheel" at this point in DC. McCain is going to DC to rally around the President, and apparently he has Bush's speechwriter involved - note the reference to 9/11 in his postponement speech.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:22 PM   #333
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Yet Obama should be concerned since he is more likely to inherit this problem.
There is no evidence that Obama is not concerned about this problem. He has been speaking at length on the economy and was and has been more on target with the state of the economy than McCain has been so far. It's a logical mis-step to link the desire to postpone the debates to the level of concern with the issue.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:25 PM   #334
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The bill is still in committee, and neither Obama or McCain are on the banking committee. They have already provided their opinions on what any bill should or should not have, and can communicate with their offices via phone or video conference. They would be a "fifth wheel" at this point in DC. McCain is going to DC to rally around the President, and apparently he has Bush's speechwriter involved - note the reference to 9/11 in his postponement speech.
Yes, they would be a 'fifth wheel'. You are correct in that. But, I would I'm glad to see McCain wants to be present for something he could potentially inherit. I would want to be there.

As for McCain rallying around the President, is this fact or just speculation because he's a Republican and made the reference to 9/11?
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:28 PM   #335
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Yes, they would be a 'fifth wheel'. You are correct in that. But, I would I'm glad to see McCain wants to be present for something he could potentially inherit. I would want to be there.
So is it more of an image thing, then? Wanting to see your (potential) president there in the mix? I can understand that. But again, in this multimedia age it's not really necessary to be physically present in order to fully understand what he's going to be inheriting.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:31 PM   #336
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So is it more of an image thing, then? Wanting to see your (potential) president there in the mix? I can understand that. But again, in this multimedia age it's not really necessary to be physically present in order to fully understand what he's going to be inheriting.
Perhaps it's an image thing. I think we can only speculate as to the true nature of McCain's intentions of being present. It's highly possible this is a dirty political move. It's highly possible it's an image thing. It's highly possible that he genuinely does see this as an more important issue than campaigning right now since it's his job.

I don't think we'll know for sure until we see what kind of impact, if any, he had on being present.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:32 PM   #337
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McCain and Obama do have records that go back to when 2005 when Obama was in the Senate

The record shows that McCain saw the problem coming and tried to get Congress to act. In 2005, both McCain and Obama served together in the Senate. Did Obama attempt to pass this reform, sign on as a co-sponsor, or even speak out in its favor?

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John McCain " Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac–known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs–and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation."
In this speech, McCain managed to predict the entire collapse that has forced the government to eat Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with Bear Stearns and AIG. He hammers the falsification of financial records to benefit executives, including Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson, both of whom have worked as advisers to Barack Obama this year. McCain also noted the power of their lobbying efforts to forestall oversight over their business practices. He finishes with the warning that proved all too prescient over the past few days and weeks.

It never made it out of committee. Chris Dodd, then the ranking member of the Banking Committee and now its chair, was in the middle of receiving preferential loan treatment from Countrywide Mortgage, one of the companies gaming the system in the credit crisis. Meanwhile, Barack Obama took hundreds of thousands of dollars from the lobbyists McCain mentions in this speech, making him the #2 recipient of Fannie/Freddie money.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:36 PM   #338
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McCain and Obama do have records that go back to when 2005 when Obama was in the Senate

The record shows that McCain saw the problem coming and tried to get Congress to act. In 2005, both McCain and Obama served together in the Senate. Did Obama attempt to pass this reform, sign on as a co-sponsor, or even speak out in its favor?



In this speech, McCain managed to predict the entire collapse that has forced the government to eat Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with Bear Stearns and AIG. He hammers the falsification of financial records to benefit executives, including Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson, both of whom have worked as advisers to Barack Obama this year. McCain also noted the power of their lobbying efforts to forestall oversight over their business practices. He finishes with the warning that proved all too prescient over the past few days and weeks.

It never made it out of committee. Chris Dodd, then the ranking member of the Banking Committee and now its chair, was in the middle of receiving preferential loan treatment from Countrywide Mortgage, one of the companies gaming the system in the credit crisis. Meanwhile, Barack Obama took hundreds of thousands of dollars from the lobbyists McCain mentions in this speech, making him the #2 recipient of Fannie/Freddie money.
If this is all true, I did not know this. This is definitely a very interesting find and gives me more to think about.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:39 PM   #339
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So is it more of an image thing, then?
The majority of these Senators and Congressmen will be there next January.

Both of the candidates claim they are capable of working across the isle and bringing change.

This bail out will be the biggest thing in the U S financial history the next President will be dealing with this his whole four year term.

The fact that Obama is aloof on it is amazing. He cleared his schedule for three days to practice for the debate while our fanacial markets are collapsing.

His lack of interest and uninvolvement is just one more example of how he reminds me of W.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:40 PM   #340
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There are also reports that McCain's campaign manager's lobbying firm took contributions from failing Freddie Mac as recently as last month.
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