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Old 09-23-2008, 04:56 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
#2 was the most discussed in the news media in 2002/3. by far. that's what i would take the meaning of the Bush Doctrine to be, as would all the presidential candidates who have even a modest interest in foreign affairs.

remember the whole debate about a "grave and gathering danger" and "imminent threats" in regards to the WMD lies?
so did you do a search in FYM and archives
perhaps you were not here,
but many were, and we have always cut and pasted articles from newspapers and magazines, actually this place used to move a lot faster, with more posters and replies.


no mention of "Bush Doctrine"

lots of preemptive war.



some "one percent doctrine"

but no Bush Doctrine ?

and there are plenty of posts attacking Bush policy.
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:57 PM   #182
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How did all the Republican candidates know what it meant in their debate?
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:01 PM   #183
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Thank you Mr. Biden.
Yes, Biden is a decent person.

and his flub on FDR and the depression is not a big deal.


I think he probably meant to say FDR spoke to the American people with his "Fireside chats" on the radio. (That was the medium in the 1930s. ) That he would reassure the people that were having hard times during the Great Depression that happened in the 1930s.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:01 PM   #184
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Oh my God, he's right. If it wasn't discussed in FYM, the term never can have been important! It's so obvious.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:02 PM   #185
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Biden has always been notorious for foot-in-mouth moments, I certainly wouldn't defend him against that much.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:03 PM   #186
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How did all the Republican candidates know what it meant in their debate?

I'd have to watch the whole debate in context, to give a good answer.

After the first guy gets it, the rest do not need clarification.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:12 PM   #187
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Again, no one who falls back on "...his world view?" when the questioner refuses to hand them a partial answer, understands at all what the phrase refers to.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:16 PM   #188
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If the question was Cheney's One per cent Doctrine
I would have know what that meant.

but the Bush Doctrine can mean different things,* so Palin's response was reasonable, wanting a clarification
and the moderator looked like an ass trying to play "gotcha"

* from wiki
EXACTLY. Will everyone please stop with this whole "Bush Doctrine" nonsense. Nobody cares if she knew what it was because they themselves (the voters that matter to McCain/Palin) don't know either. It just adds so much fuel to the anti-media fire that the McCain campaign is currently milking to their benefit. So enough already. This kind of intellectual snobbery is just helping them!!!
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:28 PM   #189
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Kind of like how all that screeching about BILLARY THE TWO-HEADED MONSTER!!!!! only further alienated Hillary supporters whose votes Obama badly needs?

But it doesn't matter, because this ain't the MSM, and the general public doesn't know or give a shit what anyone in FYM says.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:34 PM   #190
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From Andrew Sullivan
The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan


The final two paragraphs from George Will's column today are worth highlighting again
Quote:
Conservatives who insist that electing McCain is crucial usually start, and increasingly end, by saying he would make excellent judicial selections. But the more one sees of his impulsive, intensely personal reactions to people and events, the less confidence one has that he would select judges by calm reflection and clear principles, having neither patience nor aptitude for either.

It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?

We forget that McCain has no executive experience, just as Obama has no executive experience. But in terms of judgment, of selection of a running mate, of calm in crisis, of a smooth operation, it is McCain who is revealing his total inexperience and unreadiness for the job, not Obama. In fact, there is no comparison. ]One campaign is chaotic, secretive, impulsive, unpredictable and losing. The other is supremely well-run, as transparent as a campaign can be, unflappable, very predictable, and winning. I know which man I'd prefer to be runing the country in a crisis. Not hotheaded, mercurial, impulsive, gambling McCain.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:38 PM   #191
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Kind of like how all that screeching about BILLARY THE TWO-HEADED MONSTER!!!!! only further alienated Hillary supporters whose votes Obama badly needs?

But it doesn't matter, because this ain't the MSM, and the general public doesn't know or give a shit what anyone in FYM says.

If FYM is a mirror of society....it reflects real world back at us.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:40 PM   #192
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I think you miss Mr. Will's point as he writes to the conservatives. McCain, the maverick, cannot be counted upon to always toe the line and run with them.

Will would not like this, and is most definitely correct. Now that he has the nomination, he does not have to completely sing their song.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:41 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
If FYM is a mirror of society....it reflects real world back at us.
Oh, I completely agree.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:44 PM   #194
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So then it does matter the things that are posted here.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:56 PM   #195
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Not in the way Harry was suggesting, no. Posting and squabbling over gaffes is uninteresting and unenlightening, yes. Of course, in Palin's case, if she were doing more interviews and taking questions from the press, there might be more there to debate (not that that means it would happen).
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:08 PM   #196
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The US Presidential election 2008 will be decided by the discussions in FYM. That would be great.

We could now stop discussing these non-issues here in FYM. Sadly, it doesn't seem the same discussions would stop in the public.
In my opinion, the current situation of political discourse is a product of shifts in politics itself and in shifts in the media, i.e. 24h news programs that normally would only have material for two hours since foreign issues don't matter anyways.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:17 PM   #197
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And political campaigns, especially presidential ones, increasingly becoming marketing campaigns, based on shaping perceptions and peddling consumer-friendly images.
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Old 09-23-2008, 06:26 PM   #198
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I reckon a combination of the 24hr news + the length of it all.

I can’t believe how little media scrutiny your politicians get in general. I think it’s amazing that they can go hours, let alone days, let alone weeks, without having to answer spontaneous, direct questions, either as candidates or eventually as elected officials. In Australia, the Prime Minister gets hammered daily by the media, potentially several times a day. On top of that, like the British, we have parliamentary question time as well. It’s more staged and not as worthwhile as it sounds, but still, it is again a daily, very public questioning that all elected officials are subjected to. I truly find it staggering and I think you’d start electing quite different people. The clever soundbite for the 6pm news still rules, but you have to face up to so much more. Imagine if George Bush was having to answer to journalists a few times a day, every day, asking completely spontaneous questions from both favourable and hostile journalists, never able to avoid them, plus challenges from Democrats in the open, on national TV, regularly.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:29 PM   #199
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I reckon a combination of the 24hr news + the length of it all.

I can’t believe how little media scrutiny your politicians get in general. I think it’s amazing that they can go hours, let alone days, let alone weeks, without having to answer spontaneous, direct questions, either as candidates or eventually as elected officials. In Australia, the Prime Minister gets hammered daily by the media, potentially several times a day. On top of that, like the British, we have parliamentary question time as well. It’s more staged and not as worthwhile as it sounds, but still, it is again a daily, very public questioning that all elected officials are subjected to. I truly find it staggering and I think you’d start electing quite different people. The clever soundbite for the 6pm news still rules, but you have to face up to so much more. Imagine if George Bush was having to answer to journalists a few times a day, every day, asking completely spontaneous questions from both favourable and hostile journalists, never able to avoid them, plus challenges from Democrats in the open, on national TV, regularly.
I've long wanted just such a change to our media/politician relationship in the US. Unfortunately I don't see it happening without a major overhaul of both the political atmosphere and the media attitude towards reporting. Overhaul may be too polite.

It would be nice to see politicians get used to actually answering (or at least trying to answer) tough questions on a regular basis.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:30 PM   #200
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Kind of like how all that screeching about BILLARY THE TWO-HEADED MONSTER!!!!! only further alienated Hillary supporters whose votes Obama badly needs?
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