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Old 04-07-2017, 10:38 AM   #461
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Is there any verifiable evidence out there of how many people actually fit this bill, i.e. diehard Sanders supporters who refused to consider Hillary? I can't help but feel "a large chunk" is a major overstatement. Sure, some of them were loud, but that shouldn't be mistaken for influence.

I think a much more common story is the one I had: I liked Sanders and voted for him in the primary, but then happily voted for Clinton in the general.
Well, there was reporting from Huffington and Maddow that detailed a lot of the sites that Eastern European outfits were running. Several of them were masquerading as Bernie fan sites (and are still operating), because their theory was that it was actually much more effective to try and split the left than it was to speak to the converted on the right.

I obviously can't say how large a group it was, but when you see Sanders himself getting booed mercilessly by crowds when he would say anything about supporting Clinton, it gives you an idea of what sort of mind set many in the Bernie camp had adhered to.

To me it's more about this type of meddling moving forward, and have they now created a larger subset of the left that will always find some fault in a standard Democrat/liberal candidate, and hobble the party moving forward.

anyway, now we all live with Trump. I just hope that those on the left can come together in a stronger way in the future, and not feel that our candidate is somehow evil if they don't fit exactly every idea we think they should.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:03 AM   #462
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I think a much more common story is the one I had: I liked Sanders and voted for him in the primary, but then happily voted for Clinton in the general.


you "happily" voted for her?

you were supposed to cry and sob and pretend as if this was the toughest decision of your life, moan about how the two parties were exactly the same, rage about the unfairness of how the DNC "rigged" the primaries and Donna Brazille "cheated" by giving Hillary a question, and then pull the lever for Jill Stein so you could retain an air of self-righteousness that lasted up until Pennsylvania was called for Trump.

i guess you didn't really like Bernie after all.








(obviously i'm kidding, and i think the vast majority of the Sanders supporters did exactly what you did, however, i can think of at least a dozen people i know alone who did essentially what i outlined above, and that's just my little self-selecting group of people; i am related to a few die-hard Sanderistas, and the stuff they'd post and share about Hillary really could have come from any far right website -- right down to diamond-esque pictures of Hillary-as-witch)
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:05 AM   #463
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so, missiles in Syria, guys. what do we think?
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:07 AM   #464
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LOL. Ludicrous? I in NO WAY am saying that anyone who didn't support Clinton had to be influenced by Russia/Wiki.
you have been strongly implying it, and consistently so.

and you still seem confused about what represents your personal opinions, versus what is objective fact.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:24 AM   #465
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The missiles into Syria are a distraction, there is clearly no thought-out policy or long term approach here, just Trump being Trump.

Syria is a disaster but I would ask everyone truthfully, how much they really understand about the conflict there, about the years/decades that preceded it, about who is fighting whom and how many factions there are and what each of them want in the end? I am betting the vast majority of us here, maybe even all of us, don't really understand this at all. So then how do you expect Joe Shmoe who thinks that Trump is bringing back his coal job to know or care?

This is why Syria will be left to its own devices, unless it becomes politically important to go strike there, for showmanship or other reasons.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:31 AM   #466
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Trump gonna Trump.
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Old 04-07-2017, 11:40 AM   #467
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I do think it's a distraction

I also believe it's a way for him to appear stronger than Obama

I'm also not completely opposed to the strike against the airfields.

How will it play out with Russia? If they truly are mad, do they start trolling Trump like they did Clinton?

There is a load of bullshit coming from this administration. So NOW we care about the lives of Syrians? Yet they sign a law stating that no refugee from this area should be allowed into our country?

He could have followed up the strike with a change of that law, to say you know what, seeing the death and carnage, especially against children has changed my mind on the refugee crisis.

That won't happen though.

I don't think anything will come of this, at least that's my hope. My fear is that this starts something much much worse
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:07 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
Is there any verifiable evidence out there of how many people actually fit this bill, i.e. diehard Sanders supporters who refused to consider Hillary? I can't help but feel "a large chunk" is a major overstatement. Sure, some of them were loud, but that shouldn't be mistaken for influence.

I think a much more common story is the one I had: I liked Sanders and voted for him in the primary, but then happily voted for Clinton in the general.
I will say to this just one thing: in the era of the Internet, with news feeds and all, it's VERY easy for the loudest voice to be the most dominant. It might have only been five people on my Facebook, for all I know, but in the months leading up to the election, I was inundated with posts about the evil of Hillary, the lesser of two evils, etc. It wasn't everyone on my feed, but it was a handful of the same people willing to post multiple times a day about it.
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:12 PM   #469
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He could have followed up the strike with a change of that law, to say you know what, seeing the death and carnage, especially against children has changed my mind on the refugee crisis.
I would love for this to be the case, and would happily give Trump credit for changing his mind and doing the right thing.

Quote:
That won't happen though.
I'd love to be wrong on this (and would prefer being wrong), but we all know this is right. Seeing innocent men, women and children gassed is terrible, but not terrible enough to open our doors to those fleeing such atrocities.
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:47 PM   #470
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They can't think we were in bed with Russia during the election if we go to war with them, right right?
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:52 PM   #471
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So your answer is to do nothing? Is it morally acceptable to do nothing ?

I don't want to go to war. I don't like the West intervening, and I sure as hell don't want Trump making decisions.

But what options do we have? Will UN sanctions work? Do we ask Assad nicely to please stop using chemical weapons?

I can understand the outrage of what's going on. Do you feel like by not getting involved (America First right?), that the Middle East will just clean itself up once enough people have been killed.

This isn't a easy solution. The Middle East has been fucked up for a long time. War in that region is apparently how it goes.

I don't know what to do. I don't feel good knowing that millions of people are suffering. I also don't feel good sending troops into a region that seems to hate us helping more than not.

Phils, it just feels like you're resorting to throwing outrage to do so. I honestly don't know what your position lately other than Corporations/Politicians are all bad.
I think a good starting point would be accepting refugees.
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:10 PM   #472
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They can't think we were in bed with Russia during the election if we go to war with them, right right?
It's the muppet show!
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:26 PM   #473
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Reports coming in that the US are investigating whether Russia had direct involvement with the chemical attacks. This could get real nasty if true.
Assad needs put in his place what he did with these attacks is an absolute outrage. At the same time this is a very, very delicate situation and could lead to a world war. Also, there's the sideshow that Trump and Putin could have conspired to take heat of the election investigation by staging these strikes, the US contacted Russia and told them prior to the strike and it does seem very "staged" etc. This is a complete mess no doubt and you've got a completely incompetent president in Trump sitting in the middle of it..... yikes!
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:49 PM   #474
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Hurry up FBI get the proof and take the cuffs to the white house already. Does anyone know who becomes president if it goes as deep as speaker of the house?
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:52 PM   #475
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Hurry up FBI get the proof and take the cuffs to the white house already. Does anyone know who becomes president if it goes as deep as speaker of the house?


Keifer Sutherland
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:55 PM   #476
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Keifer Sutherland
Sweet! What about Harrison Ford?
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:56 PM   #477
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Just looked it up phew people don't let it get 11 deep that's Ben Carson
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:57 PM   #478
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Omg worse Betsy Devos is 13
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:55 PM   #479
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The only coherent thought I have on Syria is that anyone claiming that this has anything to do with Trump and his "compassion" needs to fuck right off.
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:56 PM   #480
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(obviously i'm kidding, and i think the vast majority of the Sanders supporters did exactly what you did, however, i can think of at least a dozen people i know alone who did essentially what i outlined above, and that's just my little self-selecting group of people; i am related to a few die-hard Sanderistas, and the stuff they'd post and share about Hillary really could have come from any far right website -- right down to diamond-esque pictures of Hillary-as-witch)
I'm a Bernie supporter who chose not to vote for Hillary. I voted third party, and I'm not ashamed of that. I never liked Hillary. I didn't like her in 2008, I didn't like her in the 90s either. I never intended to vote for her, even though I hate Trump even more.

She lost by 11,640 votes in my county, and 574,117 statewide, though I have still had people tell me that it's my fault that she lost. That I committed the gravest sin by voting for someone I actually liked, instead of someone I did not like.
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