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Old 09-05-2012, 03:23 PM   #821
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Rant away . It's what we're here for.

You may be shot down, but if you feel bothered enough to the point where you need or want to speak up against such things, I'd say go for it. Never hurts to try. I do understand wanting to keep the peace, too, though. Hopefully your weekend won't be too unpleasant.

I don't see my relatives nearly enough to have this be as much of an issue. I know a cousin likes to post a bunch of anti-Obama stuff on Facebook, but I'm not on there enough to get too bothered by it, and even if I do see it I just move on to do something else.
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:36 PM   #822
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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
Rant away . It's what we're here for.

You may be shot down, but if you feel bothered enough to the point where you need or want to speak up against such things, I'd say go for it. Never hurts to try. I do understand wanting to keep the peace, too, though. Hopefully your weekend won't be too unpleasant.

I don't see my relatives nearly enough to have this be as much of an issue. I know a cousin likes to post a bunch of anti-Obama stuff on Facebook, but I'm not on there enough to get too bothered by it, and even if I do see it I just move on to do something else.
Thanks, Moonlit

It is hard to voice my opinions when my own parents and sisters have such hate - literal hate - for anything that is not radical conservative. The few times I've tried, I was called ignorant, that I was "missing the point". When Heath Ledger died and I expressed my sadness, my dad kind of mocked me because I had admitted before to seeing Brokeback Mountain (while no one in family had ever heard of Heath before, they didn't want to hear about him when he died because he did that movie) . When I told my sister I believe in evolution, she said in utter disgust that I was an atheist, which I'm not. I still seethe with anger over those moments.

I also want to say that I am glad FYM exists. I'm glad this forum allows different viewpoints and that the mods have a good handle on the debates here. There's a lot of intelligent people here to help me see the world from a different perspective. When I first joined Interference 10 years (I had a different screenname back then), my viewpoints were very limited because of my upbringing. But thanks to this forum, plus some of my liberal college professors, and just life in general, I've been able to see the world differently, be open-minded and have better thinking skills. Yes, I've gotten out of line and may have sounded ignorant a few times, but I was corrected in a empathetic manner, and I learned new things.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:15 PM   #823
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My step-dad is a self-described lifelong Democrat, from Chicago, and voted for Obama in 2008. These days, he believes Obama is a Muslim, which to reasonable people wouldn't make any difference, but to him it's all part of some conspiracy bullshit. He is also a Birther.

He is also, pretty much, a fundamentalist Christian. And I think he's gotten more radical over the last few years. That's where the power of a certain kind of paranoid evangelism comes into play. It's hard to describe. They see it as a bigger apocalyptic picture where Obama is literally leading us to prophecy.

As an aside, I know many other fundamentalist Christians that do NOT believe this kind of stuff. Oh, they believe plenty of kooky things for sure.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:25 AM   #824
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somehow i ended up with 2 separate posts (originsally) into this one post ....
I separated them. this first one was posted originally i think IN it's own "post box" AFTER the "second" one! shheeeessh



---------------------------------------------------------------


hoooo boy U2DM and even more Pearl!

i grew up with FDR & Elenor R-type liberal parents and have stayed that way.

Sometimes i think could i be wrong contemplating some issue.... a quick review of what i've heard, seen, experinced in life -- i answer to myself "nah"

in fact in some ways i've become even more liberal/ progressive.

at some point earlier on 70's? i remember the word "progressive" that well know activist liberals claimed the word progressive because liberal had become such a "dirty" word.

On the other hand i guess it was later on that ? some people declared that progressive meant more ledft than liberal. Not to be confused with neo-liberal; altho i think some issues are agreed upon between them.

Pearl you'll get a kick out of this i think...

when i was in my tweens one of my best friends was a girl who's father left Cuba don't know if he married here or left with his wife . I remember riding in back of their car...me & and girlfriend basically saying we'd "rather be dead, than red!".

Red = Communist, Red China, Soviet Union
pink-diapered baby meant a child of avowed/suspected Communists

I had no idea back then that communism & socialism were often different things!

And also that the very humorless peole hawking their ?Socialist Workers Party Newspaper in the big hallway near the Lunchroom of my Art College were not necessarily the same as some of the brands of European Solcialism or Nordic Countries Socialism ofI think we could learn things from.

Although I belive in bending, even breaking rules at times, i'm not an anarchist. Although one of my favorite political sayings does come from an anarchist ...Emma Goldberg.
it goes something like the first part i think is verbatum

"If I can't dance to your Revolution." .... then something about> tnot being in terested in it.

too tired too goggle itf up right now

hope i fixed most of my typos!


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Originally Posted by Steved1998 View Post
I pledge allegiance to the UNITED STATES not the state of Israel. There's no reason to put Jerusalem in any party platform unless you're bowing to AIPAC. They've got the money and guns- let them sort out their own shit.
ugh AIPAC .......

what's SO deffieciant and sad is that in Israel there's much more of a broader debate between Ultra-Religous, Religious, more Reform and probably some secular Jews and a very much Active Peace Movement, and Jews already working with Palestinian Peace & cooperation people through the years....
...not that many non-Jewish Americans even know this !!!

How do I know this?

I'm not Jewish, I just play one on TV!



j/k.... i spent a lot of years my later kid, tween & teen years ESP when we first moved into the middle section of the area there... it was? oh 60-65% Jewish. A mix of secular, Reform, Conservative but not Ultra-Orthadox Jews!

It was great fun when they're be the High Holy Days ( Sept - Oct depending on older Calander) and the rest of us... some Protestians, a lot of various Ethnic Catholics: Irish, Greek, and anti-Castro Cubans and Puerto Ricans Catholics too.....
and there'd be only 35-30% in the class!

Anyway i'm a native NYC'r, there's big a big Jewish presense and concentrated in certain neighborhoods more than others, so sort of picked up some of the lingo.....
and the POV that Israel could do no wrong.

Over the decades i learned a way more nuanced view. I still support their Statehood alot, but their are issues of fairness & abuse etc that have not been well adressed.
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:22 PM   #825
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I've just staked $3,000 on Obama on Intrade. $5.89 a share. He's been rising like crazy this week from about $5.60 a share. Payout is ten if he wins, but I'll probably sell before election day if it's close enough since why wager nearly $5,000 to win a couple hundred?

Romney has done nothing but trend downward for the last few months both on that site and on the 538 blog. There's nothing he can really do in the next two months to turn things around at this point. It's starting to look more and more probable that the only state he will reclaim from Obama is Indiana - the only state 538 managed to pick wrong in the last election (and the most obvious one to flip back to red).
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Old 09-06-2012, 05:56 PM   #826
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betting on the election are we?

what is the name of that famous ? British betting company??

they almost are always mentioned around USA President al elections.

oh i remember hearing about 538 site...



but what IS it?!

total electorial votes? goes to ggl up!
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:14 PM   #827
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538 is a site run by Nate Silver who aggregates poll data to predict the Electoral college. He was a baseball stats nerd who used those tools to come up with the prediction. He was almost perfect.
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Old 09-06-2012, 08:27 PM   #828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
Thanks, Moonlit

It is hard to voice my opinions when my own parents and sisters have such hate - literal hate - for anything that is not radical conservative. The few times I've tried, I was called ignorant, that I was "missing the point". When Heath Ledger died and I expressed my sadness, my dad kind of mocked me because I had admitted before to seeing Brokeback Mountain (while no one in family had ever heard of Heath before, they didn't want to hear about him when he died because he did that movie) . When I told my sister I believe in evolution, she said in utter disgust that I was an atheist, which I'm not. I still seethe with anger over those moments.
Oh, my god, wow. That is nuts. I don't blame you for being angry-the 'Brokeback' thing in particular pisses me off! I just don't get how people can think that way and find it perfectly logical. I really, honestly don't. My relatives, to my knowledge, aren't THAT blatant in their views. They're more the type to think those things, but not say them in polite company, or if they do say them, they find ways to dance around coming right out and saying what they really mean. But even then I don't think they would dare be as offensive with their views as what you refer to with your family.

My parents and sister share my views-my immediate family has always been generally in agreement on politics. We've had a couple disagreements here and there on minute things, and that's been about it. But on all the issues where it matters, we're of similar minds.

Also, you're welcome .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl View Post
I also want to say that I am glad FYM exists. I'm glad this forum allows different viewpoints and that the mods have a good handle on the debates here. There's a lot of intelligent people here to help me see the world from a different perspective. When I first joined Interference 10 years (I had a different screenname back then), my viewpoints were very limited because of my upbringing. But thanks to this forum, plus some of my liberal college professors, and just life in general, I've been able to see the world differently, be open-minded and have better thinking skills. Yes, I've gotten out of line and may have sounded ignorant a few times, but I was corrected in a empathetic manner, and I learned new things.
Fully agreed on that. Even with how heated it's been here in recent months (and how heated it's gotten at various times in years past), I still enjoy a good discussion/debate here. And even if I don't agree with someone's views, I still want to hear what they have to say, both because I just like hearing people's opinions in general and because it can help me reevaluate and strengthen my own positions/arguments.

My parents and upbringing helped shape the vast majority of my worldview, too, but yeah, it is nice to be able to expand beyond that and hear other viewpoints for the reasons you mentioned.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:12 PM   #829
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Only 96,000 jobs added last month.

368,000 Americans left the job market.

"When somebody doesn't do the job, you gotta let `em go"
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:24 PM   #830
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"When somebody doesn't do the job, you gotta let `em go"
Indeed. So when is the Republican majority in the House going to do their job and pass the jobs bill that will add about 1 million jobs (and that's an estimate on the safe side, indepent reports are more like 1.3 to 1.7 million jobs)? You know, the bill that the president proposed I don't know how many months ago.

BTW, what's Romney's plan to add more jobs to the economy? Apart from cutting taxes for the rich?
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #831
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Only 96,000 jobs added last month.

368,000 Americans left the job market.

"When somebody doesn't do the job, you gotta let `em go"
Quote:
America’s public sector, which has lost more than 700,000 jobs since 2009.
700,000 people getting government paychecks have been let go

I can't imagine why conservatives, Grover Norquist types, aren't dancing a jig.



Public Sector Cuts Have Wiped Out 45 Percent Of Women's Job Gains Since 2009 | ThinkProgress
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:02 PM   #832
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It's abundantly clear the GOP has done everything it can to prolonged the recession and make the American people suffer so that they might not re-elect Obama.

How awful for them if it doesn't work.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:07 PM   #833
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700,000 people getting government paychecks have been let go

I can't imagine why conservatives, Grover Norquist types, aren't dancing a jig.



Public Sector Cuts Have Wiped Out 45 Percent Of Women's Job Gains Since 2009 | ThinkProgress
ThinkProgess Includes census workers I'm sure. Also includes teachers, police and firefighters that local and state governments, who often must balance their budgets, can no longer afford due to high pension costs. Most cities and states now have two work forces, two police depts and two fire depts on their budgets. The working force and the retired force.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:16 PM   #834
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Subprime Housing Bubble Collapse Was Facilitated By Obama Lawsuit In 1995 - Investors.com

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Housing Crisis: Previously unpublished court documents reveal that as a young lawyer from Chicago, President Obama's lawsuit against big banks started inflating the housing bubble that created the mess he says he inherited.

We have often written that the true roots of our current economic crisis lay in the excesses of the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act as redefined under the Clinton administration. We have explained how community outreach by banks, under pressure from groups such as Acorn, was transformed into the mandatory credit issuance based not of creditworthiness, but on the basis of "fairness."

"Redlining," the activists argued, was the antithesis of the American dream of owning a home. Moreover, they insisted, everyone had the "right" to own a home. So the banks were forced to issue loans to people who couldn't afford to pay them back. The banking system was forced to inflate a housing bubble that set us up for a near-catastrophic economic collapse.

This did not occur by accident, but by design at the hands of disciples of the Cloward-Piven strategy of overwhelming the system, causing it to collapse, then to be replaced by a worker's paradise of redistributed income with the individual totally subservient to the greater good.

Presidential candidate Barack Obama called it the "fundamental transformation" of America, and he was there when the seeds of collapse were planted.

The Daily Caller has obtained and analyzed previously unpublished court documents relating to a class-action lawsuit filed in 1995 by young attorney Barack Obama on behalf of three lead plaintiffs and 180 subsidiary plaintiffs against Citibank for alleged discrimination in lending practices.

As the Daily Caller relates, "Obama's lawsuit was one element of a national 'anti-redlining' campaign led by Chicago's progressive groups, who argued that banks unfairly refused to lend money to people living within so-called 'red lines' around African-American communities."

The discrimination lawsuit was initiated by Chicago progressive activist Fay Clayton in 1994. Obama's employer, lawyer Judson Miner, joined with Clayton to file a class-action lawsuit a year later. Obama later introduced himself to Clayton as an "associate" on the case.

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Citibank would settle the case, with $950,000 going to the lawyers, including Obama. But it gave only $20,000 to each of the three named plaintiffs, and included $360,000 in benefits to be divided among the 183 other clients. Their portion of the settlement was not in cash, but in coupons. About half of the 186 African-American clients in Obama's lawsuit have since gone bankrupt or received foreclosure notices.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:08 PM   #835
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The suggestion that the entire housing collapse and economic crisis was driven by a banks being forced by activist-lawsuits to lend money to poor blacks who demanded more house than they could rightly afford strikes me as a gross oversimplification at best.

But then I can't claim to be well-versed on all the root causes of our current economic situation, so maybe that is it.

Just doesn't feel quite right to me, you know. . .
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:25 PM   #836
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Does the DC have these documents for everyone to see? Can you find where it lists Obama as the lead attorney?


snopes.com: Obama Required Banks to Lend Money to Poor People
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:44 AM   #837
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I love this picture, and I find it so interesting that this guy is a Republican who voted for Obama and will again (wonder how many of those exist in this country). The President wanted to meet him because of the charity work he does through his foundation.

President Barack Obama is picked up and lifted off the ground by Scott Van Duzer, owner of Big Apple Pizza and Pasta Italian Restaurant, during an unannounced stop, Sunday, Sept. 9, 2012, in Ft. Pierce, Fla



Obama entered the shop saying, "Scott, let me tell you, you are like the biggest pizza shop owner I've ever seen," according to a White House pool report.

Van Duzer, 46, is a big guy: He is 6' 3" tall and weighs 260 pounds.

After Obama was lifted up, he said "Look at that!" Man are you a powerlifter or what?"

He continued, according to the pool, talking about Van Duzer's big muscles.

"Everybody look at these guns," he said. "If I eat your pizza will I look like that?"

Van Duzer, by the way, is a registered Republican who voted for Obama in 2008 and says he will do so again in November.

"I don't vote party line, I vote who I feel comfortable with, and I do feel extremely comfortable with him," he told the press pool.
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Old 09-10-2012, 11:56 AM   #838
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"I don't vote party line, I vote who I feel comfortable with, and I do feel extremely comfortable with him," he told the press pool.

If only more people would think this way, we'd all be better off.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:07 PM   #839
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I love this picture, and I find it so interesting that this guy is a Republican who voted for Obama and will again (wonder how many of those exist in this country). The President wanted to meet him because of the charity work he does through his foundation.

President Barack Obama is picked up and lifted off the ground by Scott Van Duzer, owner of Big Apple Pizza and Pasta Italian Restaurant, during an unannounced stop, Sunday, Sept. 9, 2012, in Ft. Pierce, Fla



Obama entered the shop saying, "Scott, let me tell you, you are like the biggest pizza shop owner I've ever seen," according to a White House pool report.

Van Duzer, 46, is a big guy: He is 6' 3" tall and weighs 260 pounds.

After Obama was lifted up, he said "Look at that!" Man are you a powerlifter or what?"

He continued, according to the pool, talking about Van Duzer's big muscles.

"Everybody look at these guns," he said. "If I eat your pizza will I look like that?"

Van Duzer, by the way, is a registered Republican who voted for Obama in 2008 and says he will do so again in November.

"I don't vote party line, I vote who I feel comfortable with, and I do feel extremely comfortable with him," he told the press pool.

That was staged.There's no way the bodygards would let a person grab the president like that.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:12 PM   #840
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I would vote for a Republican if one was available that I felt comfortable with. Can't find any.

Meanwhile, this woman has to settle for Biden (trying to pick HER up?), apparently in a biker bar. Love the looks on the faces of the other guys I'd want to cuddle with the President like that , not Joe. It looks like she's sitting in his lap, I'm getting a sort of creepy lech vibe.

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