Obama General Discussion, vol. 3 - Page 27 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-12-2011, 11:23 PM   #521
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner El Guapo View Post
Minnesota (10) is considered by some as a 13th swing state.

If MN goes to Obama, then the split is Obama-196 Republican-191.
With those 151 votes from the 12 swing states up for grabs.
Short of a Penn State-type scandal in the White House, Minnesota goes Obama in 2012 by a wider margin than in 2008. I am confident in that.
__________________

__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 01:33 AM   #522
War Child
 
Inner El Guapo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 609
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Lots of ways to look at it.

But I can't imagine any scenario where Ohio isn't the Belle of the Ball.

It won't be gay marriage and the like this time.

It's going to be union shit.
__________________

Inner El Guapo is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 10:47 AM   #523
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 10:27 AM
All the puzzle pieces for an interesting 2012 race are falling into place:

The SCOTUS has agreed to hear the appeal of the Affordable Care Act (that's Obummerkare for all you Fox News viewers). Ruling is expected before July 2012.

Then again, it's all down to the economy. This should still be interesting, though.
Canadiens1131 is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:36 PM   #524
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
The SCOTUS has agreed to hear the appeal of the Affordable Care Act (that's Obummerkare for all you Fox News viewers). Ruling is expected before July 2012.


and on that note:

Quote:
CNN Poll: Support rises for health insurance mandate
politicalmugshot
Posted by
CNN Political Unit

Washington (CNN) - The public is divided over the idea of requiring all Americans to have health insurance, according to a new national survey. But a CNN/ORC International Poll also indicates that support for the proposal, a cornerstone of the 2010 health care reform law, has risen since June.

The survey's Monday release comes as the Supreme Court has agreed to decide the constitutionality of the sweeping health care reform law that was passed by a Democratic Congress and championed by President Barack Obama. The justices made their announcement in a brief order issued on Monday. Oral arguments would likely be held in late February or March, with a ruling by June, assuring the blockbuster issue will become a hot-button political issue in a presidential election year.

According to the poll, 52% of Americans favor mandatory health insurance, up from 44% in June. The survey indicates that 47% oppose the health insurance mandate, down from 54% in early summer.

"The health insurance mandate has gained most support since June among older Americans and among lower-income Americans," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "A majority of independents opposed the measure in June, but 52 percent of them now favor it."

The poll was conducted for CNN by ORC International Poll from November 11-13, with 1,036 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's overall sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points.

CNN Poll: Support rises for health insurance mandate – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 11-14-2011, 01:06 PM   #525
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Like with everything, as people learn more, they start to get it right (see: same sex marriage).
PhilsFan is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 01:23 PM   #526
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,258
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Or it could just be a fluke poll.

RealClearPolitics - Election Other - Obama and Democrats' Health Care Plan
2861U2 is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 02:48 PM   #527
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post


possibly.

but the last poll in that RCP was late October, it's been a few weeks, and Obama's numbers have continued a gradual rise, wouldn't surprise me if this issue follows suit.

also, people might be discovering that having more people with insurance is a good thing, that a pre-existing condition can no longer disqualify you from having insurance is a good thing, and that kids being able to remain on their parent's health care is also a good thing.

i really can understand the philosophical objection to the idea of a "mandate." i might not agree, but i can understand it.

i can't understand the total unwillingness of those opposed to the Affordable Care Act to acknowledge that, yes, there are some very, very good and important improvements in the bill.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 11-14-2011, 02:53 PM   #528
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 06:27 AM
either way, the Supreme Court could make this a non-issue


also, I think most people that see themselves as not being affected by it, they are guessing they are against it.

as more and more people are impacted with higher and higher co-pays and insurance costs, they would rather have some controls, vs no controls.
deep is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 03:21 PM   #529
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 10:27 AM
The interesting possibility for Summer 2012 will be both President Obama and Eventual Nominee Romney both having to face down their own brand of legislation being declared unconstitutional. Both of them pushed through healthcare legislation requiring the mandatory purchase of health insurance to get the provisions to work.
Canadiens1131 is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 03:25 PM   #530
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 10:27 AM
what's also weird is that my premiums just went down by about $17 this month.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 11-14-2011, 03:38 PM   #531
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 06:27 AM
Here is CA many are getting rebates, there is a state law that something like 70 % of money collected must go for health care, if audits show that is not the case premiums are lowed or rebates. There really are only a couple of big insurance companies here, Blue Cross, Blue Shield, Anthem. Kaiser.

The State Insurance Commissioner has not allowed some rate increases, or lower them after audits show they were not justified.

Keep in mind the insurance companies have a lot of control on these numbers, and still they are making/showing huge profits.
deep is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 03:48 PM   #532
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 06:27 AM
I also do accept that there are credible arguments to be made for free markets in health care

look at the costs of breast augmentations, the costs in a free market have come down drastically over the years

the same could be said for laser eye surgeries, these costs are probably at 25% of the they were first offered at. And I do attribute that to market factors. Because those are paid by the consumer and not paid for by insurance coverage. If they were covered by insurance, the costs would be much, much higher.

Those services do better in a free market, like cell phones. Ability to enter the market and compete drives the costs down with better products/ services.

Unfortunately, many or most health need requirements are not as open to free markets.
deep is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 06:34 PM   #533
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Canadiens1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,363
Local Time: 10:27 AM
You can argue that breast augmentations and eye surgery for vision correction are non-essential services, though, and depend on discretionary income.

Setting a broken arm is not an optional expenditure for an individual.
Canadiens1131 is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 06:51 PM   #534
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Actually breast reductions and vision correction are covered on many occasions.
BVS is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 08:01 PM   #535
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
The interesting possibility for Summer 2012 will be both President Obama and Eventual Nominee Romney both having to face down their own brand of legislation being declared unconstitutional. Both of them pushed through healthcare legislation requiring the mandatory purchase of health insurance to get the provisions to work.
The constitutionality of the Massachusetts law isn't in question as it pertains only to citizens of Massachusetts. States can compel its citizens to buy car insurance for example. At question is the authority of the federal government to compel the purchase of insurance using the Commerce Clause.
INDY500 is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 08:06 PM   #536
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The American Resistance
Posts: 4,754
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadiens1131 View Post
You can argue that breast augmentations and eye surgery for vision correction are non-essential services, though, and depend on discretionary income.

Setting a broken arm is not an optional expenditure for an individual.
Setting a broken arm was also quite affordable until third party payers and defensive medicine entered the picture.
INDY500 is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 08:49 PM   #537
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 09:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500

Setting a broken arm was also quite affordable until third party payers and defensive medicine entered the picture.
So setting a broken arm in 1920 was less expensive than in 2011? that's your argument? On the surface that's a pretty true statement, beyond the surface it's one of your most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.
BVS is offline  
Old 11-14-2011, 09:13 PM   #538
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Setting a broken arm was also quite affordable until third party payers and defensive medicine entered the picture.
If you want 1950s prices, you'll get 1950s medicine.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 11-15-2011, 09:21 AM   #539
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
If you want 1950s prices, you'll get 1950s medicine.
It might be worth it if we get 1950s tax rates.

__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:30 AM   #540
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 67,806
Local Time: 10:27 AM
and 1950's gas
__________________

Headache in a Suitcase is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×