US Politics XXXV: My Insurrection Lasted More Than 4 Hours

[mikal]

So from what I'm hearing, this sounds like we are going down the usual Trump road. The judge appoints the special master, which is supposed to be agreed up on by both sides, but I'm guessing that is in serious question. She has opened it up to everything, meaning any document can be litigated. So when people say, oh this is just a little delay, maybe a few weeks... Really they could drag it on for as long as they want.

this is what always happens. Delay, break the case down further and further, get wins from Trump judges along the way which hobble the case against him, the longer it stays out in the public, the less people think its a big deal. Trump walks away. Rinse and repeat.

Two things:

1. It'll be overturned

2. It doesn't matter because the feds have already reviewed the evidence. A Special Master literally does nothing to help Donald Trump at this point. If they had this ruling the very minute after the raid, then yes it could have delayed things, but because Trump's team took over two weeks to find a judge that would make this ruling, they're fucked.

 

[womanfish]

So IF this is just a delay by a month or so, BEAL is spot on. DOJ will need to indict him pretty much at 12:01am Eastern time on Wednesday, Nov. 9th. Before Trump announces.

mikal, I don't think DOJ will appeal, because that could delay it waaaay longer. The problem with the special master ruling is that the judge insanely said that they could litigate executive privilege, even though Trump has no executive privilege because that would be granted by Biden.

This means that if they bring that to court and win, DOJ would almost certainly have to appeal it since the precedent would have dire consequences, which would mean a long path to the SCOTS, who would absolutely throw our country into the trash heap for Trump. If they don't appeal it, it would mean that Trump was fine having the documents.

 

[mikal]

So IF this is just a delay by a month or so, BEAL is spot on. DOJ will need to indict him pretty much at 12:01am Eastern time on Wednesday, Nov. 9th. Before Trump announces.

mikal, I don't think DOJ will appeal, because that could delay it waaaay longer. The problem with the special master ruling is that the judge insanely said that they could litigate executive privilege, even though Trump has no executive privilege because that would be granted by Biden.

This means that if they bring that to court and win, DOJ would almost certainly have to appeal it since the precedent would have dire consequences, which would mean a long path to the SCOTS, who would absolutely throw our country into the trash heap for Trump. If they don't appeal it, it would mean that Trump was fine having the documents.

They can appeal and still move forward if they even really care about the Special Master. If I were the DOJ I would appeal just as an extra "fuck you" and that's it. The Special Master and executive privilege have nothing to do with each other. And they don't have to indict by any deadline either.

 

[BEAL]

Just fucking indict him already. Literally anyone else in this country would have been thrown in jail doing what he did.

I have no idea why he's allowed to crime out in the open, and yet every week he's spouting off more bullshit and riling up his base....and the media plays it like a sport. Trump gets a win in court! What does this mean for Dems? Can Democracy survive??? We debate this and more!!

 

[BEAL]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1567301624158208001?s=21&t=2MEuvTlHyLE0fnuv9VC4FA

 

[dazzledbylight]

Hi gang

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED TO A PRESIDENT BEFORE!!

We never had a president willingly steal/take confidential materials, or lead a armed insurrection against his own government before.

These people have shown us who they really are. When they get back into office they plan to burn the entire thing down.

At least it'll be Obvious to most people.

Gosh, imagine that. WE WERE RIGHT. Who could've EVER imagined that a guy who spread a racist birther conspiracy about Obama, or said vile things about women and immigrants, and bragged about how he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose supporters, would pose a danger to our country and the world? I mean, really...

"But her fucking e-mails", indeed.

I dunno I can imagine quite a lot. Hope u r good!

The Art of The Steal

Heh!

They really should have TV tested those red lights

I really liked them. Very dramatic. Like (I actually don't know how this play was configured serious, sarcastic etc) "Bloody, Bloody Andrew Jackson" powers know the blood on drumphf's & Co. hands

They’re so secret they’re invisible

ULTRAVIOLET!

https://twitter.com/harrylitman/status/1566868489150685185?s=21&t=ioxqpGSKrf-2w3rXWKjmgA
.....
I have to assume that the DOJ knew this would happen and have a good path forward.

So say we all!

Nothing sez "drumphf like shit on a roller coaster!
GAK!

 

[dazzledbylight]

So IF this is just a delay by a month or so, BEAL is spot on. DOJ will need to indict him pretty much at 12:01am Eastern time on Wednesday, Nov. 9th. Before Trump announces.

mikal, I don't think DOJ will appeal, because that could delay it waaaay longer. The problem with the special master ruling is that the judge insanely said that they could litigate executive privilege, even though Trump has no executive privilege because that would be granted by Biden.

This means that if they bring that to court and win, DOJ would almost certainly have to appeal it since the precedent would have dire consequences, which would mean a long path to the SCOTS, who would absolutely throw our country into the trash heap for Trump. If they don't appeal it, it would mean that Trump was fine having the documents.

Some peeps on DU are convinced the delays will be extreme.
There's no way around this or shortening the process?
Powers, I hope Garland indicts him.

 

[DaveC]

Just fucking indict him already. Literally anyone else in this country would have been thrown in jail doing what he did.

almost literally anyone else in the country isn't a former president.

they need to build an absolutely lock-tight slam dunk no-brainer case before they can indict or arrest him. can you imagine the public reaction if he was arrested before the prosecutors had every i dotted and every t crossed, and he got off on a technicality, or there was reasonable doubt or something?

better that they take 2-3 years to build something he has absolutely no chance of getting out of, than arresting him now with the potential of an acquittal that would only give him even more power?

 

[BEAL]

In 2-3 years he may be president again and we already saw how the DOJ treated him with obstruction / Russian collusion.

Some memo says you can’t indict a sitting President, or it’s frowned upon. It’s not even a law, just a courtesy

He had documents that any other human being possessed would be in prison.

We’ll eventually find out he was sharing secrets and still….let’s keep delaying.

I think the biggest issue is finding a judge and jury who would be impartial either way

 

[DaveC]

i agree with you about the difficulty of impaneling an impartial jury - that is probably the single biggest stumbling block to putting him behind bars at this point. it's not as if they don't have solid, unquestionable evidence of a zillion federal and state crimes.

my point is just that they have to be absolutely, 1000% beyond a doubt sure of a conviction before they make a move to indict and arrest a former president. for better or worse he is not "anyone else in this country". if they move too soon and don't lock everything down and for whatever reason trump skates on whatever charge, he (and his followers) come out of it 100x more powerful and dangerous. i fully agree that it sucks to wait and wait and wait, but it's better for the long term health of the country for the DOJ to be at "the sun will come up tomorrow" levels of certainty before making an exceptional and unprecedented move like this.

 

[BEAL]

Read that only eight countries have nukes

So who do we think it is ? Israel ? Maybe the 2 billion investment to Jared from the Saudis…..

 

[dazzledbylight]

almost literally anyone else in the country isn't a former president.

they need to build an absolutely lock-tight slam dunk no-brainer case before they can indict or arrest him. can you imagine the public reaction if he was arrested before the prosecutors had every i dotted and every t crossed, and he got off on a technicality, or there was reasonable doubt or something?

better that they take 2-3 years to build something he has absolutely no chance of getting out of, than arresting him now with the potential of an acquittal that would only give him even more power?

It is a serious dilema! I've been while feeling a bit nudgy about it but, omg, it needs to be tigher than air tight...
Nano tight!

 

[DaveC]

Read that only eight countries have nukes

So who do we think it is ? Israel ? Maybe the 2 billion investment to Jared from the Saudis…..

at least nine:

USA
Russia
UK
France
China
India
Pakistan
Israel
North Korea

 

[Irvine511]

i agree with you about the difficulty of impaneling an impartial jury - that is probably the single biggest stumbling block to putting him behind bars at this point. it's not as if they don't have solid, unquestionable evidence of a zillion federal and state crimes.

my point is just that they have to be absolutely, 1000% beyond a doubt sure of a conviction before they make a move to indict and arrest a former president. for better or worse he is not "anyone else in this country". if they move too soon and don't lock everything down and for whatever reason trump skates on whatever charge, he (and his followers) come out of it 100x more powerful and dangerous. i fully agree that it sucks to wait and wait and wait, but it's better for the long term health of the country for the DOJ to be at "the sun will come up tomorrow" levels of certainty before making an exceptional and unprecedented move like this.

I’m in agreement with this.

 

[mikal]

Just fucking indict him already. Literally anyone else in this country would have been thrown in jail doing what he did.

I have no idea why he's allowed to crime out in the open, and yet every week he's spouting off more bullshit and riling up his base....and the media plays it like a sport. Trump gets a win in court! What does this mean for Dems? Can Democracy survive??? We debate this and more!!

I do agree, but I do wonder if the last piece they're looking at is if he shared any of the documents with foreign countries. That would raise the bar a bit.

And yeah, the defeatism on the left is getting a bit old. The Dems love playing the victim, but all signs point to Trump being indicted here.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

The dude tried to destroy our democracy because he’s a sore fucking loser. Indict him for jaywalking for all I care.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

hey

https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1567523876451614720

religion sucks.

that is all.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Dumb ruling but it’s also really dumb that companies have to pay for that shit. Should be available from the fucking government. Rabble rabble universal healthcare.

 

[BEAL]

It’s not like judges are biased!!!

https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1567527649471352832?s=21&t=xVBem5KAx94OgpLVLtff1Q

https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1567528759577681922?s=21&t=xVBem5KAx94OgpLVLtff1Q

I assume it’ll be Texas that invalidates marriage equality first.

 

[Irvine511]

hey

https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/1567523876451614720

religion sucks.

that is all.

What’s the religious POV here? I can I guess see the argument that some kinds of birth control can be viewed as abortifacients, but there’s no precious holy more-important-than-real-children zygotes involved in most uses of Prep (straight people use it too). Like, all it’s doing is basically eliminating the risk of HIV … which would be much more expensive for the employer to cover? Are people likewise aware that, today, HIV, if properly treated, is far less disruptive to life and health than, say, Type 2 diabetes? And that HIV can be transmitted on a single occasion, whereas other health issues like Type 2 diabetes and, say, heart disease and obesity actually are “lifestyle” diseases from decades of unhealthy eating at church picnics?

I’m trying to find a reason for this other than “I want to facilitate the transmission of HIV by not paying for drugs that are 99%+ effective.” Or is it, “god doesn’t like butt stuff, and Truvada encourages butt stuff?”

Where is the evidence that this is true? Or is it true if a religious person has a moral conviction that it is true? Or does someone just have to feel strongly about something?

So confused.

 

[Irvine511]

Further, can employers have the option not to cover the HPV vaccine, something that literally prevents cervical, oral, and anal cancers?

 

[Hewson]

” Or is it, “god doesn’t like butt stuff, and Truvada encourages butt stuff?”

.

I'm assuming this as the underlying reason.

 

[womanfish]

I do agree, but I do wonder if the last piece they're looking at is if he shared any of the documents with foreign countries. That would raise the bar a bit.

And yeah, the defeatism on the left is getting a bit old. The Dems love playing the victim, but all signs point to Trump being indicted here.

Hard to call it defeatism. We could literally name hundreds of things that Trump has done and has faced zero consequences. In every significant instance he uses the exact same playbook. So when that playbook goes into effect again, I think it's justified to be able to say, I'm doubtful, but I hope you prove me wrong to the DOJ.

(and yes, I accept that this is criminal "charges", not political ones, so that gives me some hope)

Also, I highly agree with your first comment. They have enough right now to indict, the nuclear confirmation pretty much made it impossible for them not to now. But I would guess the damage assessment will turn up some leads and witnesses that could lead to something absolutely damning. Not saying it will, but has the potential.

 

[womanfish]

Further, can employers have the option not to cover the HPV vaccine, something that literally prevents cervical, oral, and anal cancers?

exactly. But sort of Headache's point about religion. Should we ban antibiotics or antivirals for other sexually transmitted diseases? Well no because in this shitheads brain, HIV is a "gay" disease, and the others he needs when he cheats on his wife with hookers.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

What’s the religious POV here? I can I guess see the argument that some kinds of birth control can be viewed as abortifacients, but there’s no precious holy more-important-than-real-children zygotes involved in most uses of Prep (straight people use it too). Like, all it’s doing is basically eliminating the risk of HIV … which would be much more expensive for the employer to cover? Are people likewise aware that, today, HIV, if properly treated, is far less disruptive to life and health than, say, Type 2 diabetes? And that HIV can be transmitted on a single occasion, whereas other health issues like Type 2 diabetes and, say, heart disease and obesity actually are “lifestyle” diseases from decades of unhealthy eating at church picnics?

I’m trying to find a reason for this other than “I want to facilitate the transmission of HIV by not paying for drugs that are 99%+ effective.” Or is it, “god doesn’t like butt stuff, and Truvada encourages butt stuff?”

Where is the evidence that this is true? Or is it true if a religious person has a moral conviction that it is true? Or does someone just have to feel strongly about something?

So confused.

it's as simple as texas christian fascists believing that pre = butt stuff and if they pay for prep that it may force them to confront their inner desires for more butt stuff. cuz jesus.

 

[womanfish]

Also, not to sidetrack the badmouthing of religion, cause it is one of my favorite things, but I did have a scary thought last night about how imperative it is that Dems hold the at least the Senate and win the White House in 2024.

Other than you know, facing the thought of living in a christofascist, authoritarian country. But if Desantis were to win, and if at that point Trump had been convicted of any of the multiple things going on at the moment, I imagine he would pardon him.

I dare anyone to tell me I'm off base here.

 

[BEAL]

https://twitter.com/mjs_dc/status/1567536173853151232?s=46&t=h-KbzmQ77z041Y8_fMng3g

This thread shows it may be a bit deeper than the HIV stuff, seems like this judge is going after the ACA again

 

[Irvine511]

it's as simple as texas christian fascists believing that pre = butt stuff and if they pay for prep that it may force them to confront their inner desires for more butt stuff. cuz jesus.

But if they are on Prep, they can do all the butt stuff they want using their headless Grindr profiles and not get HIV. Seems win-win to me?

But in truth, BEAL is right that this is about the ACA, the notion that you can’t “force” me to “pay” for someone else’s healthcare, so we’re going to conjure up a “religious objection” as our Trojan Horse.

I’m the way that I personally paid all of you $10,000 for your student loans.

 

[phanan]

Also, not to sidetrack the badmouthing of religion, cause it is one of my favorite things, but I did have a scary thought last night about how imperative it is that Dems hold the at least the Senate and win the White House in 2024.

Other than you know, facing the thought of living in a christofascist, authoritarian country. But if Desantis were to win, and if at that point Trump had been convicted of any of the multiple things going on at the moment, I imagine he would pardon him.

I dare anyone to tell me I'm off base here.

Isn't it essentially imperative for the foreseeable future at this point?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

But if they are on Prep, they can do all the butt stuff they want using their headless Grindr profiles and not get HIV. Seems win-win to me?

But in truth, BEAL is right that this is about the ACA, the notion that you can’t “force” me to “pay” for someone else’s healthcare, so we’re going to conjure up a “religious objection” as our Trojan Horse.

I’m the way that I personally paid all of you $10,000 for your student loans.

Well the headless grindr profiles in this case belong to political types who will still be able to afford their prep, much like how they also manage to find a way to get their side chicks an abortion when needed.

So it's also a way to stick it to the poor is what I'm saying.