U2 seen filming in Berlin

[Salome]

this entire "U2 being revisionists" thing pisses me off
they're very critical of their own work and when you read U2 by U2 you notice that goes for just about every album, not just POP
of course, on a forum where that album is most of the time being treated as the Holy Grail, the entire focus is always on the fact U2 ALSO reckons things could have been better on POP

you know what, the band is more often right than wrong

/blindsheep

 

[medley]

I think U2 believe in every album they put out unless it doesn't sell very well.

I just think that they know that an album that fails to be a commercial success can't be that great artistically too and they are certainly right imo.

 

[Niceman]

this entire "U2 being revisionists" thing pisses me off
they're very critical of their own work and when you read U2 by U2 you notice that goes for just about every album, not just POP
of course, on a forum where that album is most of the time being treated as the Holy Grail, the entire focus is always on the fact U2 ALSO reckons things could have been better on POP

you know what, the band is more often right than wrong

/blindsheep

Do you think the best of 1990-2000 was a true and accurate representation of their work in that time period?

 

[U2girl]

You're on to something here.



Now you're on some other planet. I don't even really love Achtung Baby that much, but I guess I've just learned better over the years than to fuck with it on the open forum.

Regardless of the "relevance" you may attribute to it, the fact that NO ONE requests anything from ATYCLB is incredibly significant as far as judging how many tracks should be allocated to it. Again, I realize that the tens of thousands of people here are Comic Book Guy-esque fans on the fringe with no opinions that could or should be realistically followed, but poll this entire website and at least 80% would rather hear Achtung Baby in full than ATYCLB. Perhaps that tells you "ignoreignoreignoreignorehdfryhsddyrjdbsyehsja" but it tells me that more songs from it should be played live, of the two.

On the level with the classics of the 80's in the world's view..yeah, One - maybe BD from this decade. That still stands.

NO ONE/80% data is all good and probably true...but not as significant as the band's own choices what to play.

Next to sales and accolades at the comeback factor, there's is also 9/11 that also gave an extra status to ATYCLB. For better or worse, and unless they really do something spectacular with their next album(s), it will be the third defining work of their career with JT and AB. There are plenty of reasons why it should, and does, get played.

 

[U2girl]

Achtung Baby has a lot of songs that work well in a stadium setting.

ATYCLB just has Beautiful Day.

No.

There's the Vertigo tour version of Kite, Elevation, and 360 version of Walk on. New York would also work in stadiums.

 

[Salome]

Do you think the best of 1990-2000 was a true and accurate representation of their work in that time period?

while I can appreciate that they felt the need to remix some of the tracks, I don't think the end results were all that great either

and personally I feel The Fly should have been included

otherwise, yes, as far as Best Ofs go an accurate representation of that period


but that has little to nothing to do with my sentiment that those who claim U2 are revisionists don't know what they are on about

 

[Niceman]

while I can appreciate that they felt the need to remix some of the tracks, I don't think the end results were all that great either

and personally I feel The Fly should have been included

otherwise, yes, as far as Best Ofs go an accurate representation of that period


but that has little to nothing to do with my sentiment that those who claim U2 are revisionists don't know what they are on about

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the new mixes. I also think The Fly and Lemon should have been there, for sure. I don't think The First Time was an important song that decade. I also don't think the two new tracks - while good songs - represented that decade's sound accurately. IMHO there was an attempt on that album to make the 1990s appeal to the new 2000s fans, rather than record what they were into then. What do you think?

 

[Salome]

I think they tried to solve the 1 problem of the 80s Best Of
it was filled with classics, but didn't feel like an album

the 90s didn't have nearly the same amount of classics
but that Best Of does feel like an album

so mission accomplished

 

[Niceman]

I think they tried to solve the 1 problem of the 80s Best Of
it was filled with classics, but didn't feel like an album

the 90s didn't have nearly the same amount of classics
but that Best Of does feel like an album

so mission accomplished

Maybe. IF that was the mission.

But, I think this is where and why the talk of revisionist history started. This and U2's disowning of Pop.

 

[Salome]

Maybe. IF that was the mission.

But, I think this is where and why the talk of revisionist history started. This and U2's disowning of Pop.

so because of a best of and something that never happened?
that's about as solid reasoning as saying U2 disowned the 80s with Achtung and ZOOTV
actually, that would make more sense
while still being silly

 

[Hollow Island]

I think U2 believe in every album they put out unless it doesn't sell very well.

Which is true, and that's really stupid because everyone with a brain knows sales don't mean something is good. Surely U2 know this, which makes it strange they'd apply that foolish logic to their work.

 

[Hollow Island]

otherwise, yes, as far as Best Ofs go an accurate representation of that period


but that has little to nothing to do with my sentiment that those who claim U2 are revisionists don't know what they are on about

Right, except that 2 songs are from 2002, and 5 are remixed and sound completely different from the originals and sound like 00s U2. Half the record is essentially new. I like it, but it does not capture their 90s music. It presents the 90s music in a way that appeals to the fans of the 80s music that were put off by the weird U2.

 

[Hollow Island]

so because of a best of and something that never happened?
that's about as solid reasoning as saying U2 disowned the 80s with Achtung and ZOOTV
actually, that would make more sense
while still being silly

But U2 didn't disown the 80s music. They never ragged on any of it; they never said any of it wasn't good, or was unfinished. They wanted to get away from that sound and image (though by R+H they already got far away from the sound) but didn't trash any records like they do Pop or No Line, probably because they all met or surpassed their commercial expectations

 

[Niceman]

so because of a best of and something that never happened?
that's about as solid reasoning as saying U2 disowned the 80s with Achtung and ZOOTV
actually, that would make more sense
while still being silly

You don't think they have disowned Pop? I'll have to respectfully disagree. The songs don't get played live. None of them were on U218. They talk about re-recording it. In my opinion its a brilliant album with fewer flaws than the two albums which followed it, or the two before it (Passengers and Zooropa) and yet they treat it like they want to sweep it under the rug and forget it ever happened.

So yeah, the Best of 1990-2000 and the treatment of POP both involve what I would consider revisionist history on the part of the band.

As far as your likening the treatment of POP with the 80s work, they continued to play material from the 80s. They have never publicly dissed it. It all made the Best of 1980-1990, so I see no similarity at all between the two examples.

 

[dan_smee]

So, apparently U2 did some filming in berlin the other day! Must be for the Best-of 2000-2010!

 

[PhilsFan]

"I'm asking you nicely: stop running away from Irvine and engage him in a discussion without taking it personally. Please."

Ok. I'll reply to YOU.

I stated that I didn't believe ATYCLB was U2's third masterpiece.

I disputed the suggestion that ZOOTV was the only stadium tour in which the band believed in the new album enough to play most of it live by pointing out that they did the same thing on both TJT and POPMART. The ridiculous counter argument was offered that U2 obviously didn't believe in POP because, even though they were playing 10 songs off of it, they also interspersed some of their other work.

The argument was made that "the consensus" outside of this board is that ATYCLB is U2's third masterpiece. I reported that whenever I personally speak to non-U2 fanatics they never have anything good to say about anything U2 has done in the last decade. I find myself having to defend the work. Some people tried to twist my words to mean that I thought anyone who liked the album was less than normal. I quickly made it clear that, by my own definition, I was not normal. Of course, no one who posts to this board is - we're the fanatics. I even joked that I do my best to avoid "normal people."

When it became clear that one poster and I had wildly different tastes, I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with his taste, I simply said that I doubted we would find much in common we agreed on - because our tastes seem to be so dramatically different. He then responded by suggesting that I had claimed all normal people agree with me on all issues. GAH!

I then responded by saying he had "poor reading comprehension skills" because he was dramatically transforming what I had said into something I had never said.

Then he made a post saying that MOFO couldn't stand alone. I'm not sure what performance of U2's was only one song long..... I decided I had wasted enough time talking to someone who was either making no effort to understand me or was intentionally pretending not to know what I was saying. or for all I know, stoned off of his mind! Sometimes, on the internet, you can waste a lot of energy on some people.

He THEN brought up a conversation he and I had had a few years ago... one I still remember very well. One wherein he accused me of being homophobic because I didn't agree that BOY was a gay themed album - and I had dared to say that I had no interest in "queer theory" (As he had put it then.) Realizing that this was the very unpleasant and bigoted individual I had dealt with then, I was certain I didn't want to continue trying to discuss or debate anything with him.

So, what is it that you think I should discuss with him? I enjoy a good debate, but I haven't seen anything enjoyable about this.

I got up to your post in that thread where you said Irvine was a jerk and you were "done," and there was literally not a single offensive thing posted before that time period at you by him.

It seems to me that you're the type of person who can't handle a disagreement. Every time someone disagreed with you in that thread, no matter how politely, you were quite abrasive and defensive.

 

[lemonfly]

Best Of 1990-2000 was an absolute travesty. It was basically U2 saying to their 00's audience "Hey kids, this is what we did during the last decade, but don't worry! It wasn't all that different to the dad rock we're doing now!"
Between omitting The Fly, the "new mixes", the new songs, and tacking on BD, they watered down their bravest decade with a firehose. U2 are really deeply, deeply insecure. They NEED love and acceptance and when they don't get it they will eat their children.

 

[Niceman]

I got up to your post in that thread where you said Irvine was a jerk and you were "done," and there was literally not a single offensive thing posted before that time period at you by him.

It seems to me that you're the type of person who can't handle a disagreement. Every time someone disagreed with you in that thread, no matter how politely, you were quite abrasive and defensive.

I strongly disagree. However, if you want to discuss it, this thread is not the place for it.

 

[theedgeu2]

This is off topic (shit the whole thread is isn't it? ) but I went to atu2.com to check out something and I found this quote in the top right corner:

"Edge made me listen to [our old material] for The Best Of, and I was bracing myself, cause I think I sound like a very opinionated girl. Just screaming my head off. But then I actually listened to it and I thought, 'My God, there's pure joy here.'"

-- Bono, 2000

Just thought of you guys and the Best Of discussion earlier. I wonder what he means about the "pure joy" part.

 

[Niceman]

Just thought of you guys and the Best Of discussion earlier. I wonder what he means about the "pure joy" part.

As I recall, "Joy" was a big key word for him around then.

 

[Irvine511]

I think I sound like a very opinionated girl.

brilliant Bono quote.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The argument was made that "the consensus" outside of this board is that ATYCLB is U2's third masterpiece. I reported that whenever I personally speak to non-U2 fanatics they never have anything good to say about anything U2 has done in the last decade. I find myself having to defend the work.

we obviously hang around vastly different types of people... do you, perchance, hang out with a lot of hipster douchebags?

most non u2 fans that i know adore all that you can't leave behind, and are big fans of vertigo and city of blinding lights as well.

i also happen to work with a u2 tribute band here in new york, and when they play gigs that they know are full of non hardcore u2 fans there are always a ton of songs off all that you can't leave behind, along with your standard hits, because that's what those crowds know and dig.

so yea, i'm very confused as to whom these non-u2 fans you speak of are. music snobs? hipster douchebags? commies perhaps?

 

[Niceman]

we obviously hang around vastly different types of people... do you, perchance, hang out with a lot of hipster douchebags?

so yea, i'm very confused as to whom these non-u2 fans you speak of are. music snobs? hipster douchebags? commies perhaps?

Maybe! lol!

I know a lot of people, from all walks of life. I'm completely flummoxed by the opinions about U2's last 3 albums that I get again and again. I don't know what else to say....

But I'll say it again, I don't think I've heard a kind word about anything from the 00s except the song "Beautiful Day"... Well, I know a guy who thinks Summer Rain was good, and that its omission from ATYCLB was further proof that U2 had lost it.

And keep in mind, Moment of Surrender is my favorite song! So, I don't agree with these people.

 

[theedgeu2]

Summer Rain > Wild Honey.

Had to get that off my chest.

 

[cobl04]

How come aaaaall the threads in this forum devolve into the same tiresome arguments?

 

[Niceman]

Summer Rain > Wild Honey.

Had to get that off my chest.

I'm big on them both.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

How come aaaaall the threads in this forum devolve into the same tiresome arguments?

By the same people, too.

 

[mama cass]

tedious thread, really

 

[Swan269]

tedious thread, really

started out promising with real news then

 

[BVS]

How come aaaaall the threads in this forum devolve into the same threesome arguments?

This would make for much more interesting derailments.