The Fracturing of a Party...

[Irvine511]

Has Crist specifically said he would not accept being on the ticket?

Crist is gay.

 

[U2isthebest]

Crist is gay.

Excuse my ignorance, but who exactly is Crist?

 

[Infinity]

Maybe, but the "real conservatives" would rather not vote than vote for McCain (see Rush Limbaugh, James Dobson, etc) .

I guess they'd rather hand over the Presidency (and therefore any nominations for Supreme court) to the Dems rather than vote for McCain. Oh well, just shows again how stupid they are.

Since i'm a real conservative, I can answer this perfectly. If McCain wins, and say Clinton wins for the Democrats, I would have a tougher time choosing who to vote for. I think the neo-cons are going to regret losing Ron Paul supporters to the Democratic nominee.

Oh and Limbaugh and Dobson are NOT real conservatives.

 

[yolland]

Charlie Crist is the governor of Florida.

 

[U2isthebest]

Charlie Crist is the governor of Florida.

Thank you! I knew the name sounded somewhat familiar, but I couldn't place it. I also couldn't put a first name with it.

 

[Strongbow]

Crist is gay.

Your evidence on that would be?

 

[yolland]

There's been a lot of ink spilled in the Florida press on that question...Orlando Sentinel, Palm Beach Times, etc.--do a Google search and you'll find plenty. Crist himself denies it, but if you're talking a Republican Vice Presidential candidacy, the paper trail of rumors plus his longterm bachelorhood and pro-civil-unions stance would be a real liability for his running mate's campaign.

 

[U2isthebest]

There's been a lot of ink spilled in the Florida press on that question...Orlando Sentinel, Palm Beach Times, etc.--do a Google search and you'll find plenty. Crist himself denies it, but if you're talking a Republican Vice Presidential candidacy, the paper trail of rumors plus his longterm bachelorhood and pro-civil-unions stance would be a real liability for his running mate's campaign.

I don't know much about these rumors themselves other than what you've just posted, but yes, if McCain wants the slightest chance of winning over the conservative evangelical base picking a pro-gay rights, possibly gay, running mate would be political suicide.

 

[Irvine511]

There's been a lot of ink spilled in the Florida press on that question...Orlando Sentinel, Palm Beach Times, etc.--do a Google search and you'll find plenty. Crist himself denies it, but if you're talking a Republican Vice Presidential candidacy, the paper trail of rumors plus his longterm bachelorhood and pro-civil-unions stance would be a real liability for his running mate's campaign.

conveniently, he's stood by Florida's medieval adoption laws, as if that's some sort of innoculation.

he's what's known as an "Auntie Tom."

or just another toe-tapping self-hater.

 

[Strongbow]

There's been a lot of ink spilled in the Florida press on that question...Orlando Sentinel, Palm Beach Times, etc.--do a Google search and you'll find plenty. Crist himself denies it, but if you're talking a Republican Vice Presidential candidacy, the paper trail of rumors plus his longterm bachelorhood and pro-civil-unions stance would be a real liability for his running mate's campaign.

So if your rumored to be gay, are a longterm bachelor, and are pro-civil-unions, that means your gay?

 

[U2isthebest]

So if your rumored to be gay, are a longterm bachelor, and are pro-civil-unions, that means your gay?

Where did yolland say that? She was simply pointing out the evidence other people have given who have come to that conclusion.

 

[Irvine511]

So if your rumored to be gay, are a longterm bachelor, and are pro-civil-unions, that means your gay?

honey, if the papers are writing about it, do you not think that this is going to be a HUGE liability as a running mate?

the Republican party has made hatred of gay people front-and-center in it's social policies. the only reason Bush is in office is because of the gay bashing amendments on the ballot in Ohio and the outstanding work done by the Republican ground operatives in SE Ohio.

McCain is already loathed by the base of his own party. and that's to his credit.

do you really think he's going to risk his conservative "credentials" by putting a gay man on the ticket?

do some research on the topic. he's as credibly gay as any Republican who hasn't outed himself with bad behavior.

and nothing changes the fact that this is a 50 year old bachelor. he's never been married. that screams GAY to your party.

i'm sorry you people have shot yourselves in the foot over this and are on the wrong side of history. sure, it won you the 2004 election, but you've lost the war on this particular issue. and you're going to be no different than the people who became Republicans after the Civil Rights Act passed because they hate black people.

i'm sorry you're such an ardent supporter of a party who's social policies are based on fear, ignorance, hatred, and suspicion, but that seems to be the situation.

 

[BVS]

So if your rumored to be gay, are a longterm bachelor, and are pro-civil-unions, that means your gay?

Did anyone say this? It doesn't matter at this point if he is or isn't, if you are even rumored gay you are poison in the Republican party...

Maybe I should have called this thread fractured from reality.

 

[anitram]

They'll find a snappy name for him, like Governor BendOver or something of the sort and run with it.

No way in hell is that guy going to be VP.

Huckabee FTW!!

 

[Strongbow]

honey, if the papers are writing about it, do you not think that this is going to be a HUGE liability as a running mate?

about as much as of a liability as it was in 2006 when:

Charlie Crist 52.18%

Jim Davis 45.11%

in the 2006 Gubernatorial election in Florida. Only 8 counties in Florida failed to vote for Charlie Crist, 3 of them in the south. If you can win in a state like Florida especially 30 counties across northern Florida which is in the Bible Belt, I think the rumor is not the liability you claim it to be.

the Republican party has made hatred of gay people front-and-center in it's social policies. the only reason Bush is in office is because of the gay bashing amendments on the ballot in Ohio and the outstanding work done by the Republican ground operatives in SE Ohio.

i'm sorry you people have shot yourselves in the foot over this and are on the wrong side of history. sure, it won you the 2004 election, but you've lost the war on this particular issue. and you're going to be no different than the people who became Republicans after the Civil Rights Act passed because they hate black people.

This is what Democrats say to console themselves after their defeat in 2004. Most people don't care and most Republicans actually working to get people to the voting both didn't engage in such activities. Yes, some exit polling may indicate it may have been important to them, but the same exit polling suggested John Kerry was going to win the election.

There is nothing that tells you precisely who each of the 2,859,768 who voted for Bush in Ohio are in terms of their religion, nor anything that tells why each person came out to vote, or whether they would have stayed home if the ammendment was not on the ballot.

do some research on the topic. he's as credibly gay as any Republican who hasn't outed himself with bad behavior.

and nothing changes the fact that this is a 50 year old bachelor. he's never been married. that screams GAY to your party.

It did not scream Gay to most of Florida's section of the Bible Belt. But it does seem to scream gay to people in this forum. Interesting.

 

[BVS]

Fracture from reality... you have it bad!!!

 

[martha]

It did not scream Gay to most of Florida's section of the Bible Belt.

Any voting stats by county to back this up?

 

[anitram]

The Republican field is already very classy:

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno." - John McCain in 1998

Those poor Obama daughters won't know what hit 'em.

 

[U2isthebest]

The Republican field is already very classy:

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno." - John McCain in 1998

Those poor Obama daughters won't know what hit 'em.

Wow. What a rude, despicable thing to say.

 

[toscano]

Since i'm a real conservative, I can answer this perfectly. If McCain wins, and say Clinton wins for the Democrats, I would have a tougher time choosing who to vote for. I think the neo-cons are going to regret losing Ron Paul supporters to the Democratic nominee.

So you'd have a tough time deciding if you want Hillary Clinton or John McCain choosing your supreme court nominee ? Really ?

Oh and Limbaugh and Dobson are NOT real conservatives.

That's why I used quotation marks. They are however self-appointed spokesmen for conservatives.

 

[Strongbow]

Any voting stats by county to back this up?

Of the 45 Florida counties from Orlando in Orange County and then going north, Crist won 40 of the counties and only lost 5. First the 5 he lost and then the 40 he won:


5 counties in Northern Florida Crist lost:


Gadsden County

Davis 66.25%
Crist 32.45%

Leon County

Davis 55.82%
Crist 42.30%

Jefferson County

Davis 54.47%
Crist 43.28%

Madison County

Davis 49.23%
Crist 48.20%

Alachua County

Davis 54.94%
Crist 42.74%




40 counties in Northern Florida that Crist won:

Escambia County

Crist 59.09%
Davis 38.98%

Santa Rosa County

Crist 68.78%
Davis 29.27%

Okaloosa County

Crist 76.36%
Davis 21.68%

Walton County

Crist 67.81%
Davis 29.88%

Holmes County

Crist 62.58%
Davis 34.74%

Washington County

Crist 61.39%
Davis 34.54%

Bay County

Crist 65.26%
Davis 30.78%

Jackson County

Crist 52.24%
Davis 45.09%

Calhoun County

Crist 50.79%
Davis 45.70%

Gulf County

Crist 55.62%
Davis 40.86%

Liberty County

Crist 49.94%
Davis 46.81%

Franklin County

Crist 49.89%
Davis 46.69%

Wakulla County

Crist 50.56%
Davis 46.22%

Taylor County

Crist 56.54%
Davis 41.48%

Hamilton County

Crist 50.30%
Davis 46.62%

Suwannee County

Crist 63.70%
Davis 33.84%

Lafayette County

Crist 62.37%
Davis 35.73%

Dixie County

Crist 52.69%
Davis 41.92%

Levy County

Crist 55.82%
Davis 40.28%

Gilchrist County

Crist 59.59%
Davis 35.94%

Columbia County

Crist 59.74%
Davis 36.97%

Union County

Crist 59.52%
Davis 37.51%

Marion County

Crist 56.76%
Davis 39.50%

Volusia County

Crist 50.11%
Davis 47.23%

Flagler County

Crist 51.81%
Davis 45.79%

Putnam County

Crist 55.51%
Davis 41.23%

St. Johns County

Crist 67.27%
Davis 30.46%

Duval County

Crist 58.86%
Davis 38.93%

Nassau County

Crist 68.87%
Davis 28.42%

Clay County

Crist 73.00%
Davis 24.46%

Bradford County

Crist 62.59%
Davis 34.23%

Baker County

Crist 69.39%
Davis 27.82%

Pasco County

Crist 53.09%
Davis 42.21%

Hernando County

Crist 52.44%
Davis 42.80%

Citrus County

Crist 56.24%
Davis 38.55%

Sumter County

Crist 65.26%
Davis 31.91%

Lake County

Crist 61.62%
Davis 35.33%

Brevard County

Crist 53.62%
Davis 42.76%

Seminole County

Crist 61.13%
Davis 36.53%

Orange County

Crist 53.33%
Davis 44.34%




Given Crist popularity in Bible thumping Northern Florida, I'm sure he would do alright in a northern state like Ohio if he were on the ticket with McCain. I'm sure he would do well in Missouri and Colorado as well.

 

[Infinity]

So you'd have a tough time deciding if you want Hillary Clinton or John McCain choosing your supreme court nominee ? Really ?

No what I meant was that there are some things I like about Clinton (end to war in Iraq) and some things I like about McCain (low taxes/low spending), so I would I have a tough time deciding.

 

[Infinity]

The Republican field is already very classy:

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno." - John McCain in 1998

Chelsea is hott. I guess he doesn't find her attractive since he needs women his own age who are in their 100's.

 

[Infinity]

Also quite a beauty, Barbara Bush:

 

[anitram]

McCain got thumped in Kansas. From USA Today:

en. John McCain's aides downplayed a thumping from Mike Huckabee in Kansas's caucuses Saturday, calling it a small bump on an inevitable road to the Republican presidential nomination. But the loss again underscored McCain's problems with staunch conservatives in his party.

Anti-abortion activists and other social conservatives have had a big role in the Kansas GOP, and some of Huckabee's supporters say his appeal to them was a key to his victory in Saturday's lightly attended caucuses. Those who did vote chose the former Arkansas governor over McCain by more than 2-to-1, ignoring an endorsement of McCain by Sen. Sam Brownback, R-Kan., who earlier dropped his bid for the nomination.

Values voters!

 

[deep]

about as much as of a liability as it was in 2006 when:

Charlie Crist 52.18%

Jim Davis 45.11%

in the 2006 Gubernatorial election in Florida. Only 8 counties in Florida failed to vote for Charlie Crist, 3 of them in the south. If you can win in a state like Florida especially 30 counties across northern Florida which is in the Bible Belt, I think the rumor is not the liability you claim it to be.

and this guy got 100% of the vote to lead the evangelicals crusade against gay life style choices

 

[deep]

I realize you are one of the ones that is smart enough to figure out this election is not about slogans, stances, speaking styles

but only about electoral votes (period)


and for your candidate to win

Florida is almost required to go red

and for that to happen

Obama has to get the nomination
Because if Hillary does
McCains odds go way down of winning Florida

Can McCain win Florida against Hillary?

The popular Crist seems the best way to accomplish that.

unfortunately it is not his 50+ years of bachelorhood that hurts

but his lack of any significant public girlfriends,
his public statements that his sexuality is no ones business
and his preference for spending his private time with close male friends


this is enough smoke
to dowse any running mate speculation

 

[maycocksean]

Because if Hillary does
McCains odds go way down of winning Florida

Can McCain win Florida against Hillary?

Do you really think that many would-be Hillary voters will choose McCain over Obama though? As has already been pointed out, most Democrats will be happy with either nominee though they have their preference about who they want the nominee to be.

I suppose the argument that it would be independents who value experience that would swing the vote McCain's way? I'm not totally convinced that such a movement would happen among independents but I could see the argument.

I do see evidence of people who would be willing to vote for Obama over McCain (at least here in FYM which I know is not entirely representative of the "real world" but still. . .) These same people would vote McCain over Hillary.

 

[deep]

I do see evidence of people who would be willing to vote for Obama over McCain (at least here in FYM which I know is not entirely representative of the "real world" but still. . .) These same people would vote McCain over Hillary.

Be careful with this one

I have read in here things like

"Me and everyone I know" are doing this and that


Well, I could post the same thing.

We all live in our very own "little echo chambers".

FYM is a bit of an echo chamber.


In considering this election, in Nov.
All we must consider is how the indiviual states will go.

You did post somewhere in here that you thought you got what I was saying,

"If it comes down to the electoral college"



The "electoral college" is all it ever comes down to.

There are times when it is not close.

Decided by one state or two.


The last two elections have been one state.


Will this election come down to only one or two states?


I believe that is the only way to consider this.


It is looking more and more like Obama may get the nomination.

I don't care that much about the polls right now.
They matter in the primaries, as they to indicate trends in those elections.


If the primaries were held in October/ November 2007, the nominees would be Giuliani and Hillary. (period)

We see how quickly peoples' opinions and who they plan to vote for can and do change.


There is a lot of good will for Obama. It will be historic to have a “qualified”, competent candidate with his heritage as the nominee.

I don’t disagree.


I also remember the ground swell of support and enthusiasm for Geraldine Ferraro as the first woman to be nominated by one of the two major parties for high office.

After Obama gets the nomination. America will have proved we are one nation.

Baseball broke the color barrier by putting Jackie Robinson on the playing field as an equal player. (Well, that is how history portrays it)

Jackie Robinson did not have to win the World Series to accomplish the goal proving Baseball was intregrated.

America does not have to elect Obama.

I suppose the argument that it would be independents who value experience that would swing the vote McCain's way? I'm not totally convinced that such a movement would happen among independents but I could see the argument.

There are enough independents and moderates that will vote for McCain, a proven “change agent”.
One that not only has a “stance” about reaching across the isle but a career record of doing so.
If you like Obama's platform, "stances" about reaching across the isle, one nation, bi-partisanship and all that - you got the real deal- Vote McCain!


I believe this election most likely will be close, with in 1-4 percent of the popular vote.

2004 was 3 % and Bush won by only one state Ohio.

I believe Hillary will do very well in Ohio, she did much better in Florida than Obama.

Yes, I know there was no campaigning. Obama did do a national ad buy that did get played in Florida. It was stopped after it ran for awhile.

I believe Hillary still is the stronger in candidate in both Ohio and Florida.

And I believe there are current polls that support this.

These two states are most likely the key to the whole election


Something to keep in mind also.

The Latino or Hispanic vote, ( I don’t know which, if either is the preferred term) is a major consideration in this election. McCain has quite a bit of support there. Hillary has as much and probably more.

Obama is not strong there at all, the advantage could go to McCain. There are western states that could swing for McCain over Obama that Hillary might win.

 

[phillyfan26]

Deep, I think you overrated Hillary and underrate Obama. You keep saying "electoral votes" and "certain states" but rarely why Hillary would do a better job in those states than Obama.