Stop the Complaining and Deal!!!!

[pulle28]

Maybe there has yet to be a confirmed identical setlist...
But I cannot see the big issue here. Does it matter that much if there's 1 or 2 changes in the setlist?
It's still pretty much the same setlist.
I think U2 approach these concerts with the same attitude as has always been there. Nothing has changed for the worse - or better.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

Interesting how Vertigo/Elevation setlist bashers proudly declare they love setlists of Zoo TV/Popmart.

Now THAT was static.

i wouldnt bother now U2girl, i am now being told in another thread that the reason i dont find the european shows boring, is because i havent been to as many shows as the person saying its boring

 

[U2Man]

i wouldnt bother now U2girl, i am now being told in another thread that the reason i dont find the european shows boring, is because i havent been to as many shows as the person saying its boring

KUEF, you aren't really the right person to tell others not to bother about these kinds of things....

...I think I could try to explain this....the persons U2girl is talking about feel the same about the ZooTV setlists that the two of you feel about the Vertigo-tour setlists....they love/loved them - and when you love something you don't want it to change, of course. However, if you are dissatisfied with something, you, of course, want it to change...so you complain about it being static

 

[KUEFC09U2]

KUEF, you aren't really the right person to tell others not to bother about these kinds of things....

...I think I could try to explain this....the persons U2girl is talking about feel the same about the ZooTV setlists that the two of you feel about the Vertigo-tour setlists....they love/loved them - and when you love something you don't want it to change, of course. However, if you are dissatisfied with something, you, of course, want it to change...so you complain about it being static

which am sure the people during zoo/popmart who loved the set and didnt want it to change, were annoyed when they heard people saying "this shouldnt be played" etc

its all 2 ways

 

[Blue Room]

I think alot of people that hold up Zoo as the ultimate and that most people loved it, etc.. Didnt actually experience it first hand and were not die hard fans then. I seem to see alot of that on here lately.

Zoo TV actually alienated a VERY large segment of the U2 fan base at the time. U2 lost alot of die hard fans who were put off by the new direction. Now they gained a bunch in the process and I think some of the die hards that left returned eventually. But it wasnt all peaches and cream at some mythical level like alot of people seem to make it out to be. The reason it doesnt seem as bad now is things get diluted over time. But the primary reason is there was no internet then obviously. I can almost guarantee you if there had been the internet in 1992/93 it would have been VERY ugly on the message boards. Worse than anything we have seen over the last couple tours. If those setlists were being posted online during each show then people would have been bitching up a storm. I remember chatting with fans before shows back then and there were people in person griping about the static setlists. But because the media loved it for the most part, and it got great reviews, people accepted it. Popmart was just as good of a show as Zoo (in some ways it was better IMO) but because the critics and the media chose to bring U2 down, its viewed as some type of failure. I see alot of fans here, again, who didnt experience Popmart but love to rip it, just because the media gave the impression it was awful. Its kind of sad really.

I think alot of you are like your own mini media. You love to rip things that are popular just because it makes you stand out or because you like to get a rise out of people. Thats fine, but don't act all offended when someone thinks your a piece of crap for turning something thats suppose to be fun, into something that makes you feel like crap. What do you expect? Its U2, sure, I would love for them to change certain things, or play X song. But I know why they are doing it they way they are and so do most of you. I'm just happy we get to see them play, this tour almost didnt happen. I think alot of you seem to forget that.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

I think alot of people that hold up Zoo as the ultimate and that most people loved it, etc.. Didnt actually experience it first hand and were not die hard fans then. I seem to see alot of that on here lately.

Zoo TV actually alienated a VERY large segment of the U2 fan base at the time. U2 lost alot of die hard fans who were put off by the new direction. Now they gained a bunch in the process and I think some of the die hards that left returned eventually. But it wasnt all peaches and cream at some mythical level like alot of people seem to make it out to be. The reason it doesnt seem as bad now is things get diluted over time. But the primary reason is there was no internet then obviously. I can almost guarantee you if there had been the internet in 1992/93 it would have been VERY ugly on the message boards. Worse than anything we have seen over the last couple tours. If those setlists were being posted online during each show then people would have been bitching up a storm. I remember chatting with fans before shows back then and there were people in person griping about the static setlists. But because the media loved it for the most part, and it got great reviews, people accepted it. Popmart was just as good of a show as Zoo (in some ways it was better IMO) but because the critics and the media chose to bring U2 down, its viewed as some type of failure. I see alot of fans here, again, who didnt experience Popmart but love to rip it, just because the media gave the impression it was awful. Its kind of sad really.

I think alot of you are like your own mini media. You love to rip things that are popular just because it makes you stand out or because you like to get a rise out of people. Thats fine, but don't act all offended when someone thinks your a piece of crap for turning something thats suppose to be fun, into something that makes you feel like crap. What do you expect? Its U2, sure, I would love for them to change certain things, or play X song. But I know why they are doing it they way they are and so do most of you. I'm just happy we get to see them play, this tour almost didnt happen. I think alot of you seem to forget that.

really couldnt have put it better myself

and just like Zoo this tour has been lapped up by the media, they love it, even manchester 1 which got slaged of by some fans, got praised by the media

 

[U2Man]

Popmart was just as good of a show as Zoo (in some ways it was better IMO) but because the critics and the media chose to bring U2 down, its viewed as some type of failure. I see alot of fans here, again, who didnt experience Popmart but love to rip it, just because the media gave the impression it was awful. Its kind of sad really.

And you wouldn't acknowledge that U2 themselves in recent years have admitted that they made mistakes during the POP period and that some of the decisions were failures? That they didn't even think that the album was done when they released it? You wouldn't acknowledge that playing at half-empty stadiums throughout large parts of the US would be very tempting to call a flop or failure, especially considering that the band we are speaking about is and was supposed to be the most popular band around?

Sure the media have power - but it really is ridiculous trying to blame them for everything. Do you think that if a few random journalists in the sixties wrote that Lennon & McCartney produced crap songs and that their live performances sucked, people would turn their backs on Beatles? They wouldn't, because only a few ill-tasted people could ever agree on that. Actually the media weren't too fond of them in the beginning...with their "long" hair and so on....but noone could resist the magic that the fab4 created no matter what kind of attitude the media had towards them. Why? because their music was magical and strong enough to survive anything.

I was actually a U2 fan during the POP period, too...and I'm sorry but I don't feel it was their strongest period - and that has nothing to do with what the media said at the time. I was so happy to see them get things right again when they gave out ATYCLB.

And you think some of the people in here are pieces of crap?

I urge you to do two things Blue Room - 1) Stop the personal attacks, I've already asked you to do this once in this thread.

2) Go to U2@NYC's thread concerning this kind of behaviour and read his first post there. I think it would be healthy and worth-while for you. I had actually hoped that his thread would once and for all stop this kind of behaviour that you are currently exercising.

 

[Blue Room]

And you wouldn't acknowledge that U2 themselves in recent years have admitted that they made mistakes during the POP period and that some of the decisions were failures? That they didn't even think that the album was done when they released it? You wouldn't acknowledge that playing at half-empty stadiums throughout large parts of the US would be very tempting to call a flop or failure, especially considering that the band we are speaking about is and was supposed to be the most popular band around?

Sure the media have power - but it really is ridiculous trying to blame them for everything. Do you think that if a few random journalists in the sixties wrote that Lennon & McCartney produced crap songs and that their live performances sucked, people would turn their backs on Beatles? They wouldn't, because only a few ill-tasted people could ever agree on that. Actually the media weren't too fond of them in the beginning...with their long hair and so on....but noone could resist the magic that the fab4 created no matter what kind of attitude the media had towards them. Why? because their music was magical and strong enough to survive anything.

I was actually a U2 fan during the POP period, too...and I'm sorry but I don't feel it was their strongest period - and that has nothing to do with what the media said at the time. I was so happy to see them get things right again when they gave out ATYCLB.

And you think some of the people in here are pieces of crap?

I urge you to do two things Blue Room - 1) Stop the personal attacks, I've already asked you to do this once in this thread.

2) Go to U2@NYC's thread concerning this kind of behaviour I think it would be healthy and worth-while for you.

1. I dont think I said anyone in particular in my post. So how is that a personal attack? You chose to take it as one directed at you. To me thats shows me that you think you are one of these people. What does that say about you? You be the judge.

2. I think you should just try to enjoy U2 and not be so damn negative about it.

OK, so you were a fan during Popmart. Which show or shows did you go see? Also, regarding attendance. Check with Sting2 on this. Popmart was one of the most successful tours financially ever. U2 chose to experiment in a few markets they had not played before and those were the markets were attendance was lower. But overall, attendance was as good as most tours. Zoo TV wasnt sellouts all over the place either. The entire upper bowl at the Silverdome in Detroit was empty for the Zoo TV show there. Also, the major mistake U2 indicates they made on the Popmart tour was not giving them enough time to finish the album. The tour was planned and they had to start it before it was finished. THIS is the part they regret. Not the tour, or even the album. Larry himself has said if they would have had time to finish it POP would have been one of their best albums.

I obviously struck a nerve with you in my post. GOOD

 

[U2Man]

1. I dont think I said anyone in particular in my post. So how is that a personal attack? You chose to take it as one directed at you. To me thats shows me that you think you are one of these people. What does that say about you? You be the judge.

Do I care whether you mentioned any particular person or not? You obviously spoke of some persons in here, didn't you? Don't try to dodge the issue. Whether it was directed to me or not doesn't matter - it was obviously directed at someone in here, wouldn't you agree? And I'm sorry but I don't think you have the right to call anyone in here such a thing - and people who do this are really not worth discussing anything with.

 

[Blue Room]

Do I care whether you mentioned any particular person or not? You obviously spoke of some persons in here, didn't you? Don't try to dodge the issue. Whether it was directed to me or not doesn't matter - it was obviously directed at someone in here, wouldn't you agree? And I'm sorry but I don't think you have the right to call anyone in here such a thing.

A personal attack is directed at someone specific. My post was not directed at anyone specific at all. It was in general. In fact, I was talking about fans over several tours that have done or would have done the same thing. What is with this "have a right" stuff. or YOU warned me Just like you have a right to complain and be negative most of the time about U2, I have the right to point out those that do that all the time. I never said you dont have the right to do so. But I certainly have a right to think what I want about those that do and post about it as well.

Oh, and I'm not blaming the media for all the crap said about Popmart. But most that slag on it, didnt see it from what I have seen here. The same about Zoo. Those lately hyping it, didnt see it. Then examine what the media thought of those tours. Thats all I'm pointing out. Those that actually attended those tours have their own feelings about them regardless of the media. But those that didnt, seem to base their opinion off the media.

 

[Chizip]

Popmart

 

[U2Man]

A personal attack is directed at someone specific. My post was not directed at anyone specific at all. It was in general. In fact, I was talking about fans over several tours that have done or would have done the same thing. What is with this "have a right" stuff. or YOU warned me Just like you have a right to complain and be negative most of the time about U2, I have the right to point out those that do that all the time. I never said you dont have the right to do so. But I certainly have a right to think what I want about those that do and post about it as well.

Again, you are dodging the issue. Think whatever you want about other people in here or "in general" - yes you have a right to do so, agreed (and again it doesn't matter whether I'm included or not, FYI) but DON'T state it publicly in here when it is as offensive, insulting and infantile as calling people "pieces of crap". I really don't have more to say about this.

 

[Blue Room]

Again, you are dodging the issue. Think whatever you want about other people in here "in general" - yes you have a right to do so, agreed (and again it doesn't matter whether I'm included or not, FYI) but DON'T state it publicly in here when it is as offensive, insulting and infantile as calling people "pieces of crap". I really don't have more to say about this.

Not dodging anything. Look back at the post you are referring to that I made. Where did "I" say anyone was a piece of crap?? I didnt, look again. I said to those that are negative all the time not to act offended when "people" call them pieces of crap for doing so. What do you expect? I didnt say what I thought of those people. You can infer what I think of them. But I never stated that.

Again, are you proving my point with each of your posts on this thread? You be the judge again. The funny thing is, I dont even really think you are one of the negative people I'm discussing for the most part. I think your posts seem to have a tinge of negativity towards U2 and you seem to react mainly to the negative threads about them. But there are people here that post absolutely ridculous things about U2 and thats all or mainly what they do here, those are the people I'm referring to. I disagree vehemently with you on a few of your opinions and for some reason that really pisses you off. I cant do anything about that and I honestly dont care. Not sure why you do so much?

 

[U2Man]

I said to those that are negative all the time not to act offended when "people" call them pieces of crap for doing so. What do you expect?

....and this is exactly where I disagree. No matter how ridiculous or stupid you think a remark about a setlist or whatever non-human thing is, this cannot justify anyone calling any person a piece of crap. That's all - and yes, it does matter to me that people don't do this in here, that's why I'm using my time and effort on this and, again, NOT because I felt stung. Please don't continue to insinuate this.

 

[KUEFC09U2]

come on guys stop the arguing

 

[U2Man]

-

 

[Blue Room]

....and this is exactly where I disagree. No matter how ridiculous or stupid you think a remark about a setlist or whatever non-human thing is, this cannot justify anyone calling any person a piece of crap. That's all - and yes, it does matter to me that people don't do this in here, that's why I'm using my time and effort on this and, again, NOT because I felt stung. Please don't continue to insinuate this.

You have got to be kidding me. I just find it enormously ironic that I'm being accused of insinuating anything from someone who basically did just that with my posts on this very thread!!

Man, if a message board reaction is THAT important to you and bothers you that much. You may want to take a step back or a break from it. WOW Its a message board, about a rock band!!

 

[U2Man]

You have got to be kidding me. I just find it enormously ironic that I'm being accused of insinuating anything from someone who basically did just that with my posts on this very thread!!

Man, if a message board reaction is THAT important to you and bothers you that much. You may want to take a step back or a break from it. WOW Its a message board, about a rock band!!

As far as I can see, you're playing along, quite eagerly, too.

 

[Blue Room]

As far as I can see, you're playing along, quite eagerly, too.

I'am!! I love a good debate. Especially when people try to quote things I didnt even say to prove their point. But I dont take this stuff that seriously. Its a hobby, and thats part of my point. Its suppose to be fun or at the very least engaging. Not crappy. I also think you have to keep it all in context. Its a message board about a Rock Band!!!

 

[U2Man]

I'am!! I love a good debate. Especially when people try to quote things I didnt even say to prove their point. But I dont take this stuff that seriously. Its a hobby, and thats part of my point. Its suppose to be fun or at the very least engaging. Not crappy. I also think you have to keep it all in context. Its a message board about a Rock Band!!!

Yep, people will really find it funny to be called "a piece of crap".

Look at my quote a little back you did actually write that you thought it was okay for someone to call someone "a piece of crap".

And bing, bing! Here you go again, dodging the issue. This time by referring to the context - it doesn't really matter what you call people in here because it is a message board about a rock band!

 

[Blue Room]

Yep, people will really find it funny to be called "a piece of crap".

Look at my quote a little back you did actually write that you thought it was okay for someone to call someone "a piece of crap".

And bing, bing! Here you go again, dodging the issue. This time by referring to the context - it doesn't really matter what you call people in here because it is a message board about a rock band!

Now this is just getting really funny.

AGAIN, I didnt call anyone a piece of crap. I didnt even say it was ok. I said those of you that are constantly negative and make something crappy that is suppose to be fun shouldnt be surprised or act offended when people call you pieces of crap for it. Not dodging it. I will say this and this IS my personal opinion. Someone coming here to do specifically those things, on purpose isnt a piece of crap. But I understand why people think they are or why they call them that, right or wrong. For those doing that not to expect that kind of reaction are being ridiculous and naive. I think the people that do come here to do those things specifically though are pathetic and that is the exact reaction they are trying to get anyway. I have stated that before and I still feel that way. Take that how you want.

There is a fine line between being a jerk and constructive criticism. I dont mind people being critical of the band, I never have. I have been myself in the past on certain things.

Oh, and my pointing out its a message board about a rock band isnt in regards to the piece of crap part. Its to your post about how this is important to you or how you get offended it appears so easily about things said here. Its just not worth it if it bothers you that much.

 

[U2Man]

You don't think people should act offended when they're called "a piece of crap"? This is what I don't get. I'm sorry but the only way I can interpret this, is that you think it is OK for these people to call people this. If someone writes that he doesn't like a particular part of U2's setlist and someone calls him "a piece a crap" for saying so, he shouldn't feel offended?!

 

[Blue Room]

You don't think people should act offended when they're called "a piece of crap"? This is what I don't get. I'm sorry but the only way I can interpret this, is that you think it is OK for these people to call people this. If someone writes that he doesn't like a particular part of U2's setlist and someone calls him "a piece a crap" for saying so, he shouldn't feel offended?!

Are you even reading what I'm saying?? If a person is constantly posting negative and ridiculous things here, and that is all they do, I'm saying they shouldnt be surprised by that type of reaction. If someone is pointing out legitimate well thought out criticisms that are not inflammatory or intended to be, then, no, they shouldn't be called a piece of crap and I dont think that happens that much. Like I said in my last post, constructive criticism is fine, I have always said that over the years. Its the people that are being jerks intentionally that get called out like that. Do they deserve to? You dont think so. I dont think so in that people doing those things are trying to get a rise out of people so calling them that is kind of what they were looking for anyway. I'm saying I understand how some fans get sick of it though and react that way.

 

[U2Man]

Are you even reading what I'm saying?? If a person is constantly posting negative and ridiculous things here, and that is all they do, I'm saying they shouldnt be surprised by that type of reaction. If someone is pointing out legitimate well thought out criticisms that are not inflammatory or intended to be, then, no, they shouldn't be called a piece of crap and I dont think that happens that much. Like I said in my last post, constructive criticism is fine, I have always said that over the years. Its the people that are being jerks intentionally that get callled out like that. Do they deserve to? You dont think so. I dont think so in that people doing those things are trying to get a rise out of people so calling them that is kind of what they were looking for anyway. I'm saying I understand how some fans get sick of it though and react that way.

Alright, I think we've reached a conclusion here. I don't think anyone should be called "a piece of crap" in here, like you just said. If anyone is sooo dissatisfied with someone's behaviour they should report it to a mod instead. There is actually a rule saying that you are not allowed to come in here solely to post negative things about U2.

You think that they deserve it under certain circumstances (if I understood you correctly).

If this is true, we won't agree, and there's no point in taking this discussion any further.

I would like to thank you for a good and heated debate though

 

[Blue Room]

You think that they deserve it under certain circumstances (if I understood you correctly).

If this is true, we won't agree, and there's no point in taking this discussion any further.

I would like to thank you for a good and heated debate though

Well, no, thats not what I said. I said I understand why some fans get sick of a certain type of behaviour (which really isnt even a bannable offense) and react that way.

That was a decent debate.

 

[U2Man]

Do they deserve to? You dont think so. I dont think so in that people doing those things are trying to get a rise out of people so calling them that is kind of what they were looking for anyway.

I know we are about to end this...but didn't you just right here state that they deserved to be called these things because that was what they were looking for anyway? Otherwise, I haven't understood this part correctly

 

[joerags]

They should do more War songs, such as Like a Song, Drowning Man, Surrender.

 

[1stOne]

They should do more War songs, such as Like a Song, Drowning Man, Surrender.

Drowning Man

Such a haunting song!
< Rushes off to get the album

 

[u2rulesmyworld]

I went to 4 Who shows in 2002 all 4 had identical setlist
I went to 7 Paul McCartney shows and they all had the same setlist(except he switched it for the Fall leg)
I went to 4 Springsteen shows in 2002 and they all had pretty much the same setlist
I saw No Doubt 17 times in 2002 and they would play the same setlist changing maybe one song each night

Depeche Mode plays the same set for their entire tour

You wanna see a varied setlist you better go see Pearl Jam, Radiohead, Phish(blah) or Dave Matthews

90% of touring artist stick to a standard setlist

 

[timothius]

I went to 4 Who shows in 2002 all 4 had identical setlist
I went to 7 Paul McCartney shows and they all had the same setlist(except he switched it for the Fall leg)
I went to 4 Springsteen shows in 2002 and they all had pretty much the same setlist
I saw No Doubt 17 times in 2002 and they would play the same setlist changing maybe one song each night

Depeche Mode plays the same set for their entire tour

You wanna see a varied setlist you better go see Pearl Jam, Radiohead, Phish(blah) or Dave Matthews

90% of touring artist stick to a standard setlist

Only in America...

Artists that play stagnant setlists have one or two traits... they are American-centric in their touring schedule or they are vintage acts who one could argue are touring for the money.