Songs of Ascent V - The Final Bell

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U2girl said:
Manager caring about the finances of the band ? $hocking...but he does not make the musical decisions. I guess the band's view of what belongs on the album (no one is perfect) is different in some cases compared to (interference) fanbase, but to me there are only 3 mistakes they made: Hold me thrill me kiss me kill me, Ground beneath her feet and Stateless not making it on a U2 album.

Maybe the band will try that "digital album release" - remember that rumour that a U2 album would be one of the first digital only releases a while ago ? U2 likes to get involved with cutting edge technology so that would be right up their alley - plus it buys them more time to work on the album as all the promotion, the actual CD pressing etc isn't needed. Release it digitally on the eve of the 3rd leg and get a little extra media talk...and they did say the album would be out "by June". All they really need is a single in the Spring, which is what Bono already talked about.
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:up:
 
medley said:
This is so much full of fail. People like you have obviously no idea at all about what art really is. Artists are critics that's the primary thing that they are because analysing what they want to create and knowing when they have reach that goal or not is what their job is all about. As a result if they are good artists so they are necessarily very good critics too but the opposite is also right : if you are not able to create anything worthy then you are obviously not good at all at analysing art too. So you're certainly the one who is ridiculous here. Criticizing is good that's what forums like this are about but please people be more humble when you are talking about artists that have proven so much. That doesn't mean that they can't be wrong but they certainly know much much better than you and me what they are doing.
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:up:
 
Jive Turkey said:
this couldnt be more wrong
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Sorry for destroying some dreams here about rock critics and forum discussions :wink: but why should someone unable to create something have a better understanding of it that someone that got great success in this area? When you go to your dentist do you also give him advices about what he should do? Why do you think that should be different with artists? Stop thinking that successful artists haven’t a great understanding about what they are doing because that just shows how vague your idea of a creative process is. I think that artists that have almost an unprecedented success in music have proven that they know better than anyone else how to create great music. Instead of criticizing blindly choices that could appear strange to THEM, people should first try harder to understand why these choices have been made in the first place in order to learn from so talented bands. Again that doesn’t mean that you can’t criticize but harsh critics should only come after deep analysis and not after bold, subjective and therefore unconstructive statements from people, me and you, that haven’t proven anything in this area.
 
medley said:
Sorry for destroying some dreams here about rock critics and forum discussions :wink: but why should someone unable to create something have a better understanding of it that someone that got great success in this area? When you go to your dentist do you also give him advices about what he should do? Why do you think that should be different with artists? Stop thinking that successful artists haven’t a great understanding about what they are doing because that just shows how vague your idea of a creative process is. I think that artists that have almost an unprecedented success in music have proven that they know better than anyone else how to create great music. Instead of criticizing blindly choices that could appear strange to THEM, people should first try harder to understand why these choices have been made in the first place in order to learn from so talented bands. Again that doesn’t mean that you can’t criticize but harsh critics should only come after deep analysis and not after bold, subjective and therefore unconstructive statements from people, me and you, that haven’t proven anything in this area.
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Someone should e mail the moderators on here, as its clearly time they closed down Interference as our opinions aren't worth shit apparently..
 
medley said:
Sorry for destroying some dreams here about rock critics and forum discussions :wink: but why should someone unable to create something have a better understanding of it that someone that got great success in this area? When you go to your dentist do you also give him advices about what he should do? Why do you think that should be different with artists? Stop thinking that successful artists haven’t a great understanding about what they are doing because that just shows how vague your idea of a creative process is. I think that artists that have almost an unprecedented success in music have proven that they know better than anyone else how to create great music. Instead of criticizing blindly choices that could appear strange to THEM, people should first try harder to understand why these choices have been made in the first place in order to learn from so talented bands. Again that doesn’t mean that you can’t criticize but harsh critics should only come after deep analysis and not after bold, subjective and therefore unconstructive statements from people, me and you, that haven’t proven anything in this area.
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I consider myself a successful creative artist that has followed the band for over 20 years. Even though I think I know what I am doing, I still need to listen too and abide by some advice that focus groups can provide. I see that you have only thirty five posts so let me welcome you here, if you haven't read some of the deep analysis that goes on here then you need to read a little more.
 
An Cat Gav said:
Someone should e mail the moderators on here, as its clearly time they closed down Interference as our opinions aren't worth shit apparently..
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nah, it doesn't mean this place should be closed down
just that we should try to appreciate the 'value' of our opinion in the grand scheme of things

being an artist might not mean you're the best judge of quality of your own work
but the fact that you've listened to a couple hundred albums doesn't truly make you an expert either

:shrug:
 
medley said:
Sorry for destroying some dreams here about rock critics and forum discussions :wink: but why should someone unable to create something have a better understanding of it that someone that got great success in this area? When you go to your dentist do you also give him advices about what he should do? Why do you think that should be different with artists? Stop thinking that successful artists haven’t a great understanding about what they are doing because that just shows how vague your idea of a creative process is. I think that artists that have almost an unprecedented success in music have proven that they know better than anyone else how to create great music. Instead of criticizing blindly choices that could appear strange to THEM, people should first try harder to understand why these choices have been made in the first place in order to learn from so talented bands. Again that doesn’t mean that you can’t criticize but harsh critics should only come after deep analysis and not after bold, subjective and therefore unconstructive statements from people, me and you, that haven’t proven anything in this area.
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Comparing the work of a dentist to an artist's work and its respective creative process? :laugh:
 
Guys, I’m not saying there aren’t any meaningful discussions on these boards because thankfully many people here have moderated and constructive opinions. I’m just criticizing the fact that some others seem to be convinced that they know much better than U2 about what they should do or have done and are claiming this as some kind of facts which is imo incredibly pretentious and… well, stupid if you consider the fact that these people haven’t proven anything in this area. That doesn’t mean that there can’t be any constructive debates on a forum just that you certainly need to have at least the good approach to create one and of course bashing something blindly will always be easier than analysing it in a respectful and constructive way.

Aygo > What is funny is that people seem to think that artists obviously don't need strong skills, understanding and knowledge to know what they are doing just like in any other job.
 
medley said:
Guys, I’m not saying there aren’t any meaningful discussions on these boards because thankfully many people here have moderated and constructive opinions. I’m just criticizing the fact that some others seem to be convinced that they know much better than U2 about what they should do or have done and are claiming this as some kind of facts which is imo incredibly pretentious and… well, stupid if you consider the fact that these people haven’t proven anything in this area. That doesn’t mean that there can’t be any constructive debates on a forum just that you certainly need to have at least the good approach to create one and of course bashing something blindly will always be easier than analysing it in a respectful and constructive way.

Aygo > What is funny is that people seem to think that artists obviously don't need strong skills, understanding and knowledge to know what they are doing just like in any other job.
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i don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise that U2 don't have mad skills when it comes to songwriting. and if some people prefer that U2 ought to take a certain route creatively, then that's their opinion and perogative. we all love different eras of U2, some like em all, i think it's safe to say mostly everyone here digs about atleast 90 percent of all the music U2 has done in their career. so if i was to say U2 should care less about what singles they can crack the top 40 with and just write from within, then i don't think it's out of line. because i respect the band and have been following them my entire life, i only want whats best for them. of course they can do whatever they want to do, and they will obviously. but to suggest that maybe U2 are going about things contrary to what one fan believes ought to be the right way, isn't disrespectful or pretensious, it's just their opinion.

and no, you honestly can't say that u2 have never made a wrong move, and that only they know what's best. why? because u read it all the time in their interviews and thruout their history. with or without you wasn't a #1 hit song in their eyes until others started encouraging them to release it as a single. and of course we all know about their hangups with the POP album. they can write music, but i won't say they're always the best judges of their music.
 
ozeeko said:
i don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise that U2 don't have mad skills when it comes to songwriting. and if some people prefer that U2 ought to take a certain route creatively, then that's their opinion and perogative. we all love different eras of U2, some like em all, i think it's safe to say mostly everyone here digs about atleast 90 percent of all the music U2 has done in their career. so if i was to say U2 should care less about what singles they can crack the top 40 with and just write from within, then i don't think it's out of line. because i respect the band and have been following them my entire life, i only want whats best for them. of course they can do whatever they want to do, and they will obviously. but to suggest that maybe U2 are going about things contrary to what one fan believes ought to be the right way, isn't disrespectful or pretensious, it's just their opinion.

and no, you honestly can't say that u2 have never made a wrong move, and that only they know what's best. why? because u read it all the time in their interviews and thruout their history. with or without you wasn't a #1 hit song in their eyes until others started encouraging them to release it as a single. and of course we all know about their hangups with the POP album. they can write music, but i won't say they're always the best judges of their music.
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:up: :up:
 
ozeeko said:
i don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise that U2 don't have mad skills when it comes to songwriting. and if some people prefer that U2 ought to take a certain route creatively, then that's their opinion and perogative. we all love different eras of U2, some like em all, i think it's safe to say mostly everyone here digs about atleast 90 percent of all the music U2 has done in their career. so if i was to say U2 should care less about what singles they can crack the top 40 with and just write from within, then i don't think it's out of line. because i respect the band and have been following them my entire life, i only want whats best for them. of course they can do whatever they want to do, and they will obviously. but to suggest that maybe U2 are going about things contrary to what one fan believes ought to be the right way, isn't disrespectful or pretensious, it's just their opinion.

and no, you honestly can't say that u2 have never made a wrong move, and that only they know what's best. why? because u read it all the time in their interviews and thruout their history. with or without you wasn't a #1 hit song in their eyes until others started encouraging them to release it as a single. and of course we all know about their hangups with the POP album. they can write music, but i won't say they're always the best judges of their music.
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Damn, I made a longer answer but have lost it :(.

Let's summarize then : artists are critics they don't have a perfect song at their first attempt (well except the beatles maybe :wink:) they of course need to figure what they want to create, be critical about their work, decide what has to be added or changed and eventually know when a song is finished or not. That's what their job is about and if they are good at it then they are necessarily good to do that. As a result saying that "they aren't the best judges of their work" is highly laughable and pretentious because it is like saying that they don't know better than fans how to create great music. You say that they have very strong songwritting skills then I am curious to know what you mean by that if that don't refers first to amazing tastes and a very strong artistic understanding. Also of course they can also be wrong, they are not perfect, but that doesn't mean that they don't still know much better than amateurs what their job is about.
 
I think I have said everything that I needed to say (even twice) so don't worry I don't think I want continue this discussion.
 
medley said:
Damn, I made a longer answer but have lost it :(.

Let's summarize then : artists are critics they don't have a perfect song at their first attempt (well except the beatles maybe :wink:) they of course need to figure what they want to create, be critical about their work, decide what has to be added or changed and eventually know when a song is finished or not. That's what their job is about and if they are good at it then they are necessarily good to do that. As a result saying that "they aren't the best judges of their work" is highly laughable and pretentious because it is like saying that they don't know better than fans how to create great music. You say that they have very strong songwritting skills then I am curious to know what you mean by that if that don't refers first to amazing tastes and a very strong artistic understanding. Also of course they can also be wrong, they are not perfect, but that doesn't mean that they don't still know much better than amateurs what their job is about.
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I'm not sure i'm following.

Look, U2 aren't Gods. At the end of the day, they're just like you and me, with flaws and insecurities.

I'm a songwriter and perform live here and there, and plan on recording pretty soon. now that doesn't mean i'm the master or anything when it comes to songwriting, but in relation to what were talking about...just like U2, I am not always the best judge of my music. I think i'm a pretty good judge, and 9 times out of ten i know what i want. But there are those incidents where i have a song that i don't rate too highly, and waddya know...everyone who hears it loves it and says "that's ure best song!". and i'm like, "what, really?" so i play it a bunch of times and i realize, wow these people are right, this IS a really good song. On the flipside of that coin, i'll write a song that i think is the best ever, and people's opinions of it will be like, "yea, it's good, but not ure best". Sometimes u need an outsider's view to make u see something for what it is. Of course, you can also have someone go "i hate ure favorite song" and you can just turn around and say with total confidence "well, i think it's great. you're just an idiot who doesn't know music" and not be swayed one bit.

Now i've lost the plot and am confusing even myself. But the point i was trying to make is that U2 are human beings just like me and u who just happen to write songs. and sometimes (admitted by themselves) they make mistakes when it comes to songs and when it comes to direction. (just ask them next time you see them about their decision to release GOYB as the first single)

find me one songwriter or band who hasn't made a mistep and i'll cast the first stone. that's right. now it's Biblical.
 
Since there aren't a lot of fresh news, let me just clarify this: I don't think that even amazing artists like U2 don't care about different opinions thinking that they are necessarily right anyway. I'm certain that they listen to a lot of different points of view even though they will of course be more interested by the ones that come from people who have proven that they are talented and know what they are talking about. But still U2 are just the ones that make the decision at the end of the day thinking that the idea of releasing WOWY as a single would indeed be really clever but denying on the other hand that a song like WTSHNN shouldn't make it on TJT like Eno adviced them. They surely know better than anyone else but that doesn't mean that they don't need other points of view before making the final decisions and again of course they aren't gods and can be wrong I have already said it multiple times.

Ok, now if you want me to finally shut the F*** up just release some amazing news!
 
this is the stage of the game when we need to start making news happen.

some ideas to get us started:

- live in Dublin? Nice? NY? keep your eyes peeled for one of the boys.. then, approach them, and ask.. "do you think there will be an album next year?" Simple. yes or no. sure, we'll probably get a token quote, but hey, any news is better than the endless, aimless debating happening now
- hack into U2.com.. what fun awaits!?
- start following any and all people related to U2 on twitter.. I'm talking McCormick, Gavin Friday, Steve Lillywhite, Terry Lawless, Alan Cross?.. then ask them.. who knows what'll get. probably nothing, but maybe something.
- add's Bono's kid to facebook. who's the oldest one? Eve? maybe she'll update her status with some random tidbit. maybe Beyonce's in the studio with Bono. who knows.. just don't get creepy and become a stalker.
- who's got Guggi's phone number?
- Daniel Lanois' got a tour coming. go see his show. he talks to the fans. I did, and asked him about NLOTH before it came out.. and the show was amazing. win win.


bottom line: we're not going to get anything for 6 months unless we do it ourselves
 
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