diamond
ONE love, blood, life
ok good point
it was said in jest but came acrosss mean.
sorry.
diamond
it was said in jest but came acrosss mean.
sorry.
diamond
Arun V said:I don't know if diamonds comment would constitute a slur....it wasn't directed at the ppl more seemed like he was slamming he french government...which is fair game.
and to say a country is irrelevant in political terms isn't really that big a deal...he didn't say french lives were worthless or anything like that....as much as sometimes diamond does deserve to be crucified.....I think you should save your nails this time.
as callous...arrogant..and in fact stupid as that assesment was...it's not a slur..nor is it racist.
the United states get slammed far worse than that in this forum...and I think most of you know it.
Arun V said:
the United states get slammed far worse than that in this forum...and I think most of you know it.
Bono's American Wife said:
As much as I hate to admit it...I agree with Arun on this one. I've seen a lot worse here.
diamond said:ok good point
it was said in jest but came acrosss mean.
sorry.
diamond
?The President considers this nation to be at war,? a White House source says,? and, as such, considers any opposition to his policies to be no less than an act of treason.?
Screaming Flower said:
i agree too. i don't care if people are anti-american policy, but there has been plenty of anti-americanism in here that never gets a second look. saying france is irrelevant is nothing compared to what people have said about my country.
Klaus said:Gickies Gageeze:
Germany was responsible for 2 Worldwars
After the fall of the 3rd Reich some of us learned the lesson history made for us history.
Klaus
elfyx said:Okay, nobody's innocent here. *Everybody* stands to gain and/or lose in this war, including the French, Germans, Russia, and definitely the U.S.
I do think there are some moral positions in all of this, but lets not delude ourselves either. The economic factor is overwhelming. In fact, it is my opinion that along with the obvious zionist agenda, the main reason for this war is economic, and economic globalism. I briefly detailed some of this in another post a while back. Basically, the U.S. economy is in a world of hurt; more than the financial guys are letting on (though Greenspan is starting to let hints slip through). It is no secret financial topbrass are playing financial collapse games with the FED and the Council on Foregin Relations in NY right now. The world all over, from China to Russia and more are dropping the U.S. dollar from their holdings like there's no tomorrow. They are all moving towards the Euro. OPEC is moving to the Euro. Iraq already has. The U.S. can't simply print Euros. Many financial analysts simply don't see the Federal Reserve System surviving a financial collapse. The FED is a house of cards; a ponzai scheme if you will, which has essentially played itself out. Only more massive debt can prop this system up. Of course we are seeing this in Bush's insane economic planning. Nevertheless, the U.S. will go bankrupt if this isn't changed soon, or it doesn't achieve worldwide economic dominance. And I hate Bush for this; he's betting the future of an entire country on his Pax Americana ambitions. We won't have much to worry about if the U.S. dominates the world economy, which is, of course, very much tied to the U.S. economy. The very heart of governments and financial institutions worldwide are jockeying for position in this banking war. The U.S. and Britain are on one side of it. The first step towards this goal is the control of Iraq. It's been documented, folks. France, Germany, and Russia are on the other side of this banking war and want no part of world-wide American capotolistic dominance. Oil plays a key role in all of this, of course, which is one reason why Iraq is so key to PNAC's ambitions. The world is currently stretched at peak capacity. When the numbers are added up, the evidence indicates that such a peak for conventional oil will arrive around 2005, and about five years later for all hydrocarbons, assuming no radical change in demand. Uh oh.
Yes, Russia and France have long-term oil contract with Iraq. So do many French, British, and other international companies. They shouldn't have to worry about thier contracts, however, they know what the U.S. was essentially told by an ex-Iraqi (defector I believe): That, should there be regime change in Iraq, all existing oil contracts can be null and voided, and war restitutions can be appropriated from Iraqi oil. Of course, just GUESS who is all lined up for this various array of new contracts? Could it maybe, perhaps, just >possibly< be Bush, his father, Cheney, the rest of his administration which is steeped in the oil industry, his corporate "friends", and other interests? This is a no brainer, is in fact, documented, and the rest of the freaking world sees it. France and Russia are pretty miffed about seeing their contracts essentially stolen right from underneath of them, while already having invested billions. We should not forget all of the financial incentives the Bush administration, his friends, and family will make off this war. The answer is that they will make millions upon millions. The whole thing is so sickeningly corrupt, it's not even in the slightest funny.
Nor, I think, should we forget all of the economic "incentives" the U.S. are paying countries for their support. Of course, we are essentially buying out the support of states, and even would try the votes of the security council. When approached by this, Ari Fleischer was literally laughed off stage by the press when he insisted Bush would do no thing. Hehe.
Scarletwine said:A contingent of US Veterans has written a letter to the President. They agree with Russia, France & Germany.
I doubt anyone could underestimate their patriotism.
Arun V said:I will state the reasons I don't trust the administration line on this war
1.) the SAME ppl who said not to invade iraq the first time...are begging to do it now....it's not basement ping pong...you dont' get a "redo"
2.) the president wasn't in a rush to do this pre 9/11
3.) the administration line is never consistent is it al qaeda...is it WMD's...is it to free the iraqi ppl????....is it cos of oil???....who knows....the administration hasn't done much to convince me that THEY have any clue why they are invading iraq.
4.) Also...the exit strategy is unclear at one point they said we could liberate iraq with minimal effort and that reissitances within would do most of the work...now it's a US led occupation.
5.)...none of the iraqi war plans include WMD contigencies being used on US troops...you'd think if he had them we'd be a little hesitant to go with this
6>) inconsistency....pakistan suplied nuclear technology to N korea...yet...they are our "ally"..and they are goign to recieve a loan write off from the US...iraq has not particiapted in any arms proliferation and is about to get invaded
7.) I do believe that at least airstrikes ar warranted...but not an invasion/groud war
these are the reasons I dont' agree with france and germany
1.) france has a horrible history of percieving global threats...and an even worse history of acting on them
2.) the german government thinks that if they never support another war...ppl will forget their post modern history.
3.)the rise of the right in europe...including the rise of anti semitism in france I feel is clouding the french governments ability to handle this situation reasoanably
I think that both sides need to calm down...iraq is like a kid pitting his parents againt each other to get away with something and it's working.
elfyx said:
That was a really eloquent letter, and really does debunk the whole illogical fallacy of unquestioning Patriotism.
I take a moment to honor all of our veterans and current servicemen and women. True Patriots.
There are many good reasons to go to war. There are also many good reasons against it. I just wish there weren't so many hidden agendas, corruption, and special interests involved by so many of the world's parties.
.. I'm sick of hearing, again and again ... that there's never gonna be - peace on earth. u2 - a tribute to heroes
Arun V said:
I'm talking about claims that are far more inciendiary.
All I have to do is point out the history of africa and india to point out where europe has failed in the past.
Klaus said:whenhiphopdrovethebigcars:
I guess there can be more than 1 responsible for it.
Arun V:
Stoping the embargo and raising the Oil production from 5% -> 100% again is a good start without violating old contracts. This would make the new system also more reliable, don't you think so?
If the winner says that old contracts are not gonna be fullfild and "surpise surprise" the new contracts will be done with the invadors - well it gets a bad taste for me.
Klaus