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Old 04-28-2020, 04:28 PM   #321
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I have no problem vetting this Biden accusation. Zero.

But you better do the same fucking thing for every one of Trump’s. Whatever it is 16-22 women who have come forward.

Trump story comes out, outrage for 20 mins and then on to something else.

Yet for Biden, and even Clinton all we hear daily for months are these stories.

It hurts one side politically, and it completely lowers any moral bar / standard as a society.

It’s enough to make you want to drink bleach
Trump has been credibly accused numerous times. I'm quite sure he is a sex criminal, in addition to a criminal of other sorts and an incredible misogynist. But the Democrats are now in the second straight election against Trump in which they are running someone who cannot have their campaign put a spotlight on it because of their own candidate's issues. For Biden, that is obvious. For Clinton, it was because not only had her husband been accused of rape, but she had attacked the accuser. She couldn't go after Trump for it either.

There is plenty to criticize the media for in regards to this, of that there is no doubt. But the media often take their cues from the campaigns and the respective national committees. And the Biden campaign is in a no-win position on this now.
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Old 04-28-2020, 04:30 PM   #322
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https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/sta...948696064?s=21

Can go in either thread but since it’s a policy thing figured here

I expect something like this for rest of industries.
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Old 04-28-2020, 04:31 PM   #323
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Hillary Clinton endorsed Biden today.

I don't know how long Biden can continue to dodge this issue of being accused of sexual assault. And how long the media can keep pretending it doesn't exist.
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Old 04-28-2020, 05:14 PM   #324
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US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

I think the main difference betweeen Blasey-Ford and Tara Reade is that Joe Biden was VP from 2008-2016, and has been running for President since 2019. This story — which has changed — came out in March 2020, right as he became the presumptive nominee and crushed her candidate. Her story has been pushed, hard, by the combination of Glenn Greenwald and right wing media.

Blasey-Ford’s story did not change, she spoke about it to friends for years as Kavanaugh rose in conservative judicial circles and she worried about him being a potential SCOTUS nominee. And when he became one, she very carefully came forward through Senator Feinstein. The second he stepped into the national spotlight and was put in a position where he could actively hurt American women, she stepped forward.

None of this necessarily has any bearings on the truth, or not, of either accusation. But I do think it’s a mistake to weight these two stories as the same.

I’m reading about it in the media all the time. I don’t see a cover up. I see this getting more air time and attention than Jean Carroll, and that’s likely because leftist media couldn’t care less about her. She’s not useful to them.

However, I am in agreement that this puts democrats in a difficult position. When you pursue purity, it’s easily weaponized by the opposition. What must be demanded by Democrats is treating every single one of Trump’s accusers the same. If they are going to accuse Biden — who has not nearly the same track record of B Clinton — then Trump’s position as the hog emperor of rape culture cannot get a pass.
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Old 04-28-2020, 05:26 PM   #325
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My response was under the understanding that "overboard" was in response to how much credibility was given to Ford, given that Reade's credibility is the subject of the current discussion. How it was handled by the Democrats and the press is a totally separate discussion. I'm talking strictly about whether or not you believe Ford and Reade.
That's fair. Maybe I could have articulated better before I edited my post.

My ex wife was a victim of sexual assault so I am very sympathetic to victims, but I just think it's important to fully investigate as well as look at the potential timing for victims to come out. And in Reade's case, it's very challenging not to look past both the timing and which campaign she was working for this year. And being honest with myself, I really believe I'd have a problem with it if it were a woman working on Biden's campaign accusing Bernie of assault as well. It's a tough thing to swallow.
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Old 04-28-2020, 06:36 PM   #326
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I think the main difference betweeen Blasey-Ford and Tara Reade is that Joe Biden was VP from 2008-2016, and has been running for President since 2019. This story — which has changed — came out in March 2020, right as he became the presumptive nominee and crushed her candidate. Her story has been pushed, hard, by the combination of Glenn Greenwald and right wing media.

Blasey-Ford’s story did not change, she spoke about it to friends for years as Kavanaugh rose in conservative judicial circles and she worried about him being a potential SCOTUS nominee. And when he became one, she very carefully came forward through Senator Feinstein. The second he stepped into the national spotlight and was put in a position where he could actively hurt American women, she stepped forward.

None of this necessarily has any bearings on the truth, or not, of either accusation. But I do think it’s a mistake to weight these two stories as the same.

I’m reading about it in the media all the time. I don’t see a cover up. I see this getting more air time and attention than Jean Carroll, and that’s likely because leftist media couldn’t care less about her. She’s not useful to them.

However, I am in agreement that this puts democrats in a difficult position. When you pursue purity, it’s easily weaponized by the opposition. What must be demanded by Democrats is treating every single one of Trump’s accusers the same. If they are going to accuse Biden — who has not nearly the same track record of B Clinton — then Trump’s position as the hog emperor of rape culture cannot get a pass.
I don't think the Biden accusation has been covered at all by CNN. On air. Of course they are all virus all the time now. But I think Tara Reade was quoted as being very upset that Anderson Cooper didn't even ask Biden about it when he interviewed him recently. Which TV news network has asked Biden about it?

The guy is running for President, Trump is a mess during this pandemic, the election is months away. Joe Biden could be all over media going after Trump's response to this pandemic. And talking about what a Biden administration would be like during a pandemic and otherwise.

Admittedly I don't expose myself to too much TV news these days for the sake of my mental health, but I can't believe the Democratic candidate for President seems so invisible these days.
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Old 04-28-2020, 06:38 PM   #327
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I don't think the Biden accusation has been covered at all by CNN. On air. Of course they are all virus all the time now. But I think Tara Reade was quoted as being very upset that Anderson Cooper didn't even ask Biden about it when he interviewed him recently. Which TV news network has asked Biden about it?

The guy is running for President, Trump is a mess during this pandemic, the election is months away. Joe Biden could be all over media going after Trump's response to this pandemic. And talking about what a Biden administration would be like during a pandemic and otherwise.

Admittedly I don't expose myself to too much TV news these days for the sake of my mental health, but I can't believe the Democratic candidate for President seems so invisible these days.
He has been very present on social media. Having worked in digital advertising, I can definitely say with confidence that his video content on Social Media has a much larger reach than television.
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Old 04-29-2020, 09:44 AM   #328
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He has been very present on social media. Having worked in digital advertising, I can definitely say with confidence that his video content on Social Media has a much larger reach than television.
Of course, but does he have to answer any questions about Tara Reade on social media? I would guess no, he controls the narrative on his social media. More accurately, his campaign management does.

I wonder if TV media agrees not to ask him about it, I hope not.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:14 AM   #329
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Ok, I didn't really want to reply to all this, especially with the lengthy response to follow, but I think that it does require some more detail then just the She said, He said.

As I've said before, I was a victim of sexual assault at the age of 5. This will come up later in my response to certain facets of this story. My wife was also a victim in her teens, so I have some background and frame of reference for what we are talking about.

I will also begin by saying that I believe Tara Reade's initial claims of feeling uncomfortable and Biden touching her neck and shoulders. This lines up with others that have come forward and gives me no reason not to believe that this likely happened.



But I am still very skeptical of the new allegation, and here is why:

1. Her actions and public display toward Biden from 2009 to 2018

* In an article Reade wrote in 2009, she commended Joe Biden for action he had taken against domestic abuse, writing: I should know what an abuser looks like. After all, I was working for then Senator Joseph Biden, who sponsored the Violence Against Women Act. Domestic violence is an equal opportunity offender.

* Between September of 2016 and May of 2017, Alexander Tara Reade used a Twitter account, under the name Tara McCabe, to spread praise of Joe Biden via tweeting, retweeting and liking various Tweets. Including his action in stopping sexual assault.

* In November of 2016, a few weeks after the election, Reade liked a tweet made by President Obama, wishing Joe Biden a “Happy Birthday,” and calling Biden “the best Vice President and friend” that he could have had.

* In January of 2017, Reade liked a tweet by the Obama, congratulating Joe Biden for receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

* In April of 2017, Reade liked a tweet by the Huffington post that praised the former Vice President for helping men realize how important they are in the fight against sexual assault. It commends Biden for the steps he has taken to encourage men to take responsibility in stopping assaults against women.

* Also in April of 2017 Reade tweeted - “My old boss speaks the truth. Listen”

This is where I will step in about my history. In no universe would I or my wife or any other assault victim that I know of personally, would ever praise, or congratulate, or praise someone else's praise of my abuser. This just does not square at all with me.


Then comes in Reade's changing story.

* When she left DC, she said at the time it was because her husband got a job offer.

* Then she said it was because she got another job offer

* Then in 2018 she said she left DC and politics because she was tired of America’s wreckless Imperialism and xenophobia against Russia that she loved so much.

* Then in 2019 right after Biden joined the race, she changed the story for the fourth time saying she left because of Joe Biden, and that she had felt uncomfortable because he touched her neck and shoulders (this would be modified again later to include touching her hair) That she had gone to staffers and to Senate personnel and no one helped.

* In April of 2019, Reade originally said that Joe Biden’s handsiness made her feel uncomfortable when she worked as a Senate aide in 1993. At the time, however, she said that she did not consider Biden’s actions to be sexualization, instead comparing her experience to that of being a beautiful lamp.

* Further - Reade said she told four Biden aides, including Dennis Toner, a senior staffer, and then-chief of staff Ted Kaufman, about inappropriate behavior by Biden but not the alleged digital penetration. Afterward, she said, she was stripped of most of her duties, and later given a month to find another job at the instruction of Kaufman, who denies her account, along with Toner and two others in the office. No Biden staffers have corroborated the assault and harassment allegations to the media.
“She did not come to me. I would have remembered her if she had. And I do not remember her,” Kaufman said.

Side note – The NY Times and AP has interviewed all staffers, over 24, and the individuals in Senate Personnel that she said she told, and have found that they have all strongly denied any such reports from her happened.

* Her brother's story has also changed, first stating that she told her that she felt harrassed, to later saying she said he touched her under her clothes. Yet at the time, according to Reade, and her brother, he told her to "let it go and move on" A response that might fit the first story, but certainly not the latter.

* Later in December of 2019 she seems ok with Biden:
Tweeting: Whoever the democratic front-runner is for the 2020 Presidential run; Beto O’Rourke, the Joe Biden and Stacey Abrams ticket, Kamala Harris, or Bernie Sanders. We should urge these candidates to elevate the national conversation to more important matters.

* In January of 2020 her tone switches yet again. - Reade wrote that she was telling her story because of a picture the media has drawn conveying Joe Biden as a “champion of women’s rights.”
The reason I am writing about it is the hypocrisy that Biden is supposed to be the champion of women’s rights. Also, watch how the media coddles him.

Yet as noted above, just a little over two years prior, SHE was on twitter praising Biden for his work on women’s rights and domestic violence.

* Then on March of 2020 (one week after Super Tuesday) the story changed again, now saying that Joe Biden harassed and fired her.

* Then at the end of March 2020 the story escalates one more time when she goes on a podcast and says that Biden sexually assaulted her.


Also troubling, is that Reade has not been able to identify where or specifically when this took place.
As a child, I could tell you every last detail of where this happened to me, and over almost 40 years, it would have never even crossed my mind to give some milder version of what happened. Oh he only rubbed my back and kissed my head, would not be something I would ever dream of saying, when it was actual sexual assault.


I will reiterate that the story my wife has told me about her assault, has never changed, and she can recount exactly where it took place and has never given me any milder version. The same goes for my own experience, and friends that I have spoken to about their experiences.

Also, the video of the Larry King call, only backs up my original feelings. That yes she felt uncomfortable, and had problems at the Biden office with him. But the lack of any mention of sexual assault or going to authorities leaves me thinking this backs up her initial claim, but not her recent claim.

I'll close with a couple excerpts from Joan Walsh. A woman that was very critical of Biden when the first group of women came forward about being uncomfortable at times with Biden, and also was on record saying he shouldn't run.
But her feelings on the new allegations closely follow mine and she can probably state it better than I. One of the main points being that a man in a powerful position doesn't just do this once. Someone that would do this, would almost certainly be a repeat offender.

In his closely documented, almost 50-year career, there have been no other similar claims against Biden. The Times interviewed the other seven women who came out last year to accuse Biden of touching them against their will; none said his behavior crossed the line to sexual assault. After many dozen interviews, with Reade and her friends, along with lawyers and two dozen Biden staffers, the writers concluded: “The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden.” Men who do what Reade says Biden did tend to do it more than once (see Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and Donald Trump). Also, once an allegation like Reade’s surfaces, others usually follow. They have not, at least so far.

“Believe women” was never that simple; nobody ever said, or meant, “Believe every woman, no matter how incredible or undocumented her claim.” The point was to give women’s accounts of sexual assault a fair and respectful hearing: first, hopefully, by police; or, if she made her claim to the media, by reporters.
Reporters have done just that with Tara Reade. Her allegation against Biden doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:20 AM   #330
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I will post this separately because i don't think it is as important but
just evidence of her being a very odd duck, there is the Russia/Putin thing.

Some of her experts about this subject in 2018 and 2019.

”President Putin has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness. His sensuous image projects his love for life, the embodiment of grace while facing adversity. It is evident that he loves his country, his people and his job.”
Reade continues,
“President Putin’s obvious reverence for women, children and animals, and his ability with sports is intoxicating to American women”
“President Putin scares the power elite in America because he is a compassionate, caring, visionary leader.”
“President Putin is beloved by Russia and he not going anywhere. Instead of being ensnared in the recent political intrigues (and America is trying hard to set that trap). President Putin is keeping a calm focus on his own country’s development and future, without America. To President Putin, I say keep your eyes to the beautiful future and maybe, just maybe America will come to see Russia as I do, with eyes of love. To all my Russian friends, happy holiday and Happy New Year.”

When the anti-Russia, anti-Putin propaganda starts up, personally, I shut down. I love Russia, I love my Russian relatives and friends. And like most women across the world, I like President Putin… a lot, his shirt on or shirt off.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:45 AM   #331
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Justin Amash trying to become the 2nd most hated person in the country (assuming Trump is #1) ???
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:20 AM   #332
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Why would this make him be hated?
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:42 AM   #333
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Because he is trying to pull moderate votes
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:30 PM   #334
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He gives people who do not want to vote for Trump an out.

There’s plenty of GOP or independents that would feel great to say they didn’t vote for Trump, instead someone who fits their views on government.

It’s a more dangerous version of Jill Stein
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:35 PM   #335
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Ok, I didn't really want to reply to all this, especially with the lengthy response to follow, but I think that it does require some more detail then just the She said, He said.

As I've said before, I was a victim of sexual assault at the age of 5. This will come up later in my response to certain facets of this story. My wife was also a victim in her teens, so I have some background and frame of reference for what we are talking about.

I will also begin by saying that I believe Tara Reade's initial claims of feeling uncomfortable and Biden touching her neck and shoulders. This lines up with others that have come forward and gives me no reason not to believe that this likely happened.



But I am still very skeptical of the new allegation, and here is why:

1. Her actions and public display toward Biden from 2009 to 2018

* In an article Reade wrote in 2009, she commended Joe Biden for action he had taken against domestic abuse, writing: I should know what an abuser looks like. After all, I was working for then Senator Joseph Biden, who sponsored the Violence Against Women Act. Domestic violence is an equal opportunity offender.

* Between September of 2016 and May of 2017, Alexander Tara Reade used a Twitter account, under the name Tara McCabe, to spread praise of Joe Biden via tweeting, retweeting and liking various Tweets. Including his action in stopping sexual assault.

* In November of 2016, a few weeks after the election, Reade liked a tweet made by President Obama, wishing Joe Biden a “Happy Birthday,” and calling Biden “the best Vice President and friend” that he could have had.

* In January of 2017, Reade liked a tweet by the Obama, congratulating Joe Biden for receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

* In April of 2017, Reade liked a tweet by the Huffington post that praised the former Vice President for helping men realize how important they are in the fight against sexual assault. It commends Biden for the steps he has taken to encourage men to take responsibility in stopping assaults against women.

* Also in April of 2017 Reade tweeted - “My old boss speaks the truth. Listen”

This is where I will step in about my history. In no universe would I or my wife or any other assault victim that I know of personally, would ever praise, or congratulate, or praise someone else's praise of my abuser. This just does not square at all with me.


Then comes in Reade's changing story.

* When she left DC, she said at the time it was because her husband got a job offer.

* Then she said it was because she got another job offer

* Then in 2018 she said she left DC and politics because she was tired of America’s wreckless Imperialism and xenophobia against Russia that she loved so much.

* Then in 2019 right after Biden joined the race, she changed the story for the fourth time saying she left because of Joe Biden, and that she had felt uncomfortable because he touched her neck and shoulders (this would be modified again later to include touching her hair) That she had gone to staffers and to Senate personnel and no one helped.

* In April of 2019, Reade originally said that Joe Biden’s handsiness made her feel uncomfortable when she worked as a Senate aide in 1993. At the time, however, she said that she did not consider Biden’s actions to be sexualization, instead comparing her experience to that of being a beautiful lamp.

* Further - Reade said she told four Biden aides, including Dennis Toner, a senior staffer, and then-chief of staff Ted Kaufman, about inappropriate behavior by Biden but not the alleged digital penetration. Afterward, she said, she was stripped of most of her duties, and later given a month to find another job at the instruction of Kaufman, who denies her account, along with Toner and two others in the office. No Biden staffers have corroborated the assault and harassment allegations to the media.
“She did not come to me. I would have remembered her if she had. And I do not remember her,” Kaufman said.

Side note – The NY Times and AP has interviewed all staffers, over 24, and the individuals in Senate Personnel that she said she told, and have found that they have all strongly denied any such reports from her happened.

* Her brother's story has also changed, first stating that she told her that she felt harrassed, to later saying she said he touched her under her clothes. Yet at the time, according to Reade, and her brother, he told her to "let it go and move on" A response that might fit the first story, but certainly not the latter.

* Later in December of 2019 she seems ok with Biden:
Tweeting: Whoever the democratic front-runner is for the 2020 Presidential run; Beto O’Rourke, the Joe Biden and Stacey Abrams ticket, Kamala Harris, or Bernie Sanders. We should urge these candidates to elevate the national conversation to more important matters.

* In January of 2020 her tone switches yet again. - Reade wrote that she was telling her story because of a picture the media has drawn conveying Joe Biden as a “champion of women’s rights.”
The reason I am writing about it is the hypocrisy that Biden is supposed to be the champion of women’s rights. Also, watch how the media coddles him.

Yet as noted above, just a little over two years prior, SHE was on twitter praising Biden for his work on women’s rights and domestic violence.

* Then on March of 2020 (one week after Super Tuesday) the story changed again, now saying that Joe Biden harassed and fired her.

* Then at the end of March 2020 the story escalates one more time when she goes on a podcast and says that Biden sexually assaulted her.


Also troubling, is that Reade has not been able to identify where or specifically when this took place.
As a child, I could tell you every last detail of where this happened to me, and over almost 40 years, it would have never even crossed my mind to give some milder version of what happened. Oh he only rubbed my back and kissed my head, would not be something I would ever dream of saying, when it was actual sexual assault.


I will reiterate that the story my wife has told me about her assault, has never changed, and she can recount exactly where it took place and has never given me any milder version. The same goes for my own experience, and friends that I have spoken to about their experiences.

Also, the video of the Larry King call, only backs up my original feelings. That yes she felt uncomfortable, and had problems at the Biden office with him. But the lack of any mention of sexual assault or going to authorities leaves me thinking this backs up her initial claim, but not her recent claim.

I'll close with a couple excerpts from Joan Walsh. A woman that was very critical of Biden when the first group of women came forward about being uncomfortable at times with Biden, and also was on record saying he shouldn't run.
But her feelings on the new allegations closely follow mine and she can probably state it better than I. One of the main points being that a man in a powerful position doesn't just do this once. Someone that would do this, would almost certainly be a repeat offender.

In his closely documented, almost 50-year career, there have been no other similar claims against Biden. The Times interviewed the other seven women who came out last year to accuse Biden of touching them against their will; none said his behavior crossed the line to sexual assault. After many dozen interviews, with Reade and her friends, along with lawyers and two dozen Biden staffers, the writers concluded: “The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden.” Men who do what Reade says Biden did tend to do it more than once (see Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, and Donald Trump). Also, once an allegation like Reade’s surfaces, others usually follow. They have not, at least so far.

“Believe women” was never that simple; nobody ever said, or meant, “Believe every woman, no matter how incredible or undocumented her claim.” The point was to give women’s accounts of sexual assault a fair and respectful hearing: first, hopefully, by police; or, if she made her claim to the media, by reporters.
Reporters have done just that with Tara Reade. Her allegation against Biden doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.
This is a great amount of detail and definitely provides a lot more clarity as to why it hasn't blown up. My personal hunch is that Biden is "old school" in certain ways. Like the teacher we all had in High School that wasn't a rapist, but would put his hands on a girl's shoulders. I do also think Biden is an affectionate guy. Like how he is around kids. I think he genuinely loves kids and that's how he shows it. I have a co-worker like that too. Great guy, super passionate, but sometimes creeps people out. But no one would actually think he's a rapist or capable of that.

PS. Sorry to hear about your own personal struggles with that.
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Old 04-30-2020, 03:26 AM   #336
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I will post this separately because i don't think it is as important but
just evidence of her being a very odd duck, there is the Russia/Putin thing.

Some of her experts about this subject in 2018 and 2019.

”President Putin has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness. His sensuous image projects his love for life, the embodiment of grace while facing adversity. It is evident that he loves his country, his people and his job.”
Reade continues,
“President Putin’s obvious reverence for women, children and animals, and his ability with sports is intoxicating to American women”
“President Putin scares the power elite in America because he is a compassionate, caring, visionary leader.”
“President Putin is beloved by Russia and he not going anywhere. Instead of being ensnared in the recent political intrigues (and America is trying hard to set that trap). President Putin is keeping a calm focus on his own country’s development and future, without America. To President Putin, I say keep your eyes to the beautiful future and maybe, just maybe America will come to see Russia as I do, with eyes of love. To all my Russian friends, happy holiday and Happy New Year.”

When the anti-Russia, anti-Putin propaganda starts up, personally, I shut down. I love Russia, I love my Russian relatives and friends. And like most women across the world, I like President Putin… a lot, his shirt on or shirt off.
The bitter irony being Putin's very own domestic violence law which is basically the exact opposite of what such a law should entail: outlawing violence against spouses, not legitimizing it. Oh the love for women's rights on display here...
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Old 04-30-2020, 07:48 AM   #337
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I wish I had someone like her to vote for


New Zealand’s Prime Minister May Be the Most Effective Leader on the Planet
Jacinda Ardern’s leadership style, focused on empathy, isn’t just resonating with her people; it’s putting the country on track for success against the coronavirus.

URI FRIEDMAN
APRIL 19, 2020
The Atlantic


The coronavirus pandemic may be the largest test of political leadership the world has ever witnessed. Every leader on the planet is facing the same potential threat. Every leader is reacting differently, in his or her own style. And every leader will be judged by the results.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel embraces science. Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro rejects it. U.S. President Donald Trump’s daily briefings are a circuslike spectacle, while Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi holds no regular briefings at all, even as he locks down 1.3 billion people.


Jacinda Ardern, the 39-year-old prime minister of New Zealand, is forging a path of her own. Her leadership style is one of empathy in a crisis that tempts people to fend for themselves. Her messages are clear, consistent, and somehow simultaneously sobering and soothing. And her approach isn’t just resonating with her people on an emotional level. It is also working remarkably well.

People feel that Ardern “doesn’t preach at them; she’s standing with them,” Helen Clark, New Zealand’s prime minister from 1999 to 2008, told me. (Ardern, a fellow member of the Labour Party, got her start in politics working for Clark during her premiership.) “They may even think, Well, I don’t quite understand why [the government] did that, but I know she’s got our back. There’s a high level of trust and confidence in her because of that empathy.”

She is “a communicator,” Clark added, noting that Ardern earned a degree in communications. “This is the kind of crisis which will make or break leaders. And this will make Jacinda.”

One of Ardern’s innovations has been frequent Facebook Live chats that manage to be both informal and informative. During a session conducted in late March, just as New Zealand prepared to go on lockdown, she appeared in a well-worn sweatshirt at her home (she had just put her toddler daughter to bed, she explained) to offer guidance “as we all prepare to hunker down.”

She sympathized with how alarming it must have been to hear the “loud honk” that had preceded the emergency alert message all New Zealanders had just received essentially informing them that life as they knew it was temporarily over. She introduced helpful concepts, such as thinking of “the people [who] will be in your life consistently over this period of time” as your “bubble” and “acting as though you already have COVID-19” toward those outside of your bubble. She justified severe policies with practical examples: People needed to stay local, because what if they drove off to some remote destination and their car broke down? She said she knows as a parent that it’s really hard to avoid playgrounds, but the virus can live on surfaces for 72 hours.

She expected the lockdown to last for several weeks, Ardern said, and for cases to rise steeply even as New Zealanders began holing up in their homes. Because of how the coronavirus behaves, “we won’t see the positive benefits of all of the effort you are about to put in for self-isolation … for at least 10 days. So don’t be disheartened,” she said.


In a more recent Facebook Live, one of Ardern’s staffers walked into her office just as she was launching into a detailed explanation of what life would look like once the government began easing its lockdown. “Oh look, it’s Leroy!” she exclaimed, assuring viewers that he was in her “work bubble.” A children’s toy was visible just behind her desk. The scene seemed apt for an era in which work and life are constantly colliding.

While Ardern conducts more formal and conventional daily briefings with other top officials and journalists, she puts her personal touch on these as well. “Trump does his briefings, but that’s a different kind of show,” Clark said. “On no occasion has Jacinda ever spun out and attacked a journalist who’s asked a question,” she noted, in reference to the American president’s repeated tirades against journalists. (When a reporter forgot his question upon being called on during a recent briefing, Ardern jokingly told him that she was concerned he wasn’t getting enough sleep.)



“She doesn’t peddle in misinformation; she doesn’t blame-shift; she tries to manage everyone’s expectations at the same time [as] she offers reassuring notes,” Van Jackson, an international-relations scholar at Victoria University of Wellington and a former Defense Department official during the Obama administration, wrote to me in an email. “She uses the bully pulpit to cue society toward our better angels—‘Be kind to each other’ and that kind of thing. I think that’s more important than people realize and does trickle down into local attitudes.”

Ardern’s style would be interesting—a world leader in comfy clothes just casually chatting with millions of people!—and nothing more, if it wasn’t for the fact that her approach has been paired with policies that have produced real, world-leading results.

Since March, New Zealand has been unique in staking out a national goal of not just flattening the curve of coronavirus cases, as most other countries have aimed to do, but eliminating the virus altogether. And it is on track to do it. COVID-19 testing is widespread. The health system has not been overloaded. New cases peaked in early April. Twelve people have died as of this writing, out of a population of nearly 5 million.

As a collection of relatively isolated islands at the bottom of the South Pacific, New Zealand was in a favorable position to snuff out the virus. “Because we had very few cases wash up here, we could actually” work toward an elimination strategy, Clark said. “It is undoubtedly an advantage to be sitting down on the periphery [of the world], because you have a chance to see what’s circulating from abroad.”

But Ardern’s government also took decisive action right away. New Zealand imposed a national lockdown much earlier in its outbreak than other countries did in theirs, and banned travelers from China in early February, before New Zealand had registered a single case of the virus. It closed its borders to all nonresidents in mid-March, when it had only a handful of cases.


Michael Baker and Nick Wilson, two of New Zealand’s top public-health experts, wrote last week that while the country’s ambitious strategy may yet fail, early intervention bought officials time to develop measures that could end the transmission of the coronavirus, such as rigorously quarantining at the country’s borders and expanding COVID-19 testing and contact tracing.

Jackson, the international-relations scholar, said that the decision by Ardern’s government to unveil its four-level alert system (it moved to Level 4 in late March) at the outset of the crisis “was great at getting us ready psychologically for a step-up in seriousness,” a model that “couldn’t be more different from Trump’s ‘What will I do today?’ approach.”



The success, of course, isn’t all Ardern’s doing; it’s also the product of an impressive collective effort by public-health institutions, opposition politicians, and New Zealanders as a whole, who have largely abided by social-distancing restrictions.

And that collective may be fraying. Although the government has unveiled many economic-stimulus measures, some opposition politicians and public-health experts are now demanding that the lockdown, which may be eased this week, be rolled back even further. They accuse the government of overreacting and argue that Australia has managed to reduce new coronavirus cases without the severe lockdown that New Zealand has endured.

Ardern is similar to Barack Obama in that she’s “polarizing at home [while] popular abroad,” Jackson said. “But her favorables are never higher than when she’s pulling the country through a crisis.”


Indeed, one poll by the market-research firm Colmar Brunton in early April found that 88 percent of New Zealanders trusted the government to make the right decisions about addressing COVID-19, and 84 percent approved of the government’s response to the pandemic, in each case higher than what the company found in the world’s seven largest advanced economies, including the United States. New Zealand citizens had come to support the government’s policies even though many were feeling economic pain, at least in the short term, as a result of them.

Jackson cautioned that while Ardern and many young European leaders have expertly navigated the coronavirus crisis, he still worries about how this new generation of leaders will handle what comes after it.

“Strategic decision making and crisis decision making are very different,” he noted. “The world is going to be changed, largely for the worse, in the coming years. A great depression seems all but inevitable. China’s strategic opportunism knows no bounds. Dictators everywhere are using the pandemic to solidify control of societies. Multilateral institutions aren’t delivering as promised. Getting through this crisis intact is just one step in a longer process toward a brave new world.”
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Old 04-30-2020, 04:18 PM   #338
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https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-qano...-out-joe-biden


More and more of these people will “wake up”
As we get closer to election
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Old 04-30-2020, 04:33 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-qano...-out-joe-biden


More and more of these people will “wake up”
As we get closer to election
this sounds more like extreme mental illness in the "if i kill the president jodie foster will fall in love with me" vein than anything actually to do with trump or biden.
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Old 04-30-2020, 04:43 PM   #340
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We have former members who are big on the QAnon train.

It's frightening how many people see it as legitimate.
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