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Old 10-12-2007, 05:10 PM   #321
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Originally posted by deep
All W said on his stump speech was.

I will REstore honor and dignity to the White House
And what a great job he did of that, too....

eltimbomofo, that's a great story you shared regarding your meetings with Gore. I particularly like the autograph bit. I have no complaints with Gore (it's amazing how much more respect he's gained since 2000), so if he were to decide to run, hey, I say go for it.

MrsSpringsteen-hehe, I saw that Hilary interview last night. Nice response she gave-that first line in particular, me-yow . It's funny, there's things I haven't agreed with her on, and then I see interviews like this and think of voting for her. I dunno. Hm.

Angela
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:14 PM   #322
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It's funny, there's things I haven't agreed with her on, and then I see interviews like this and think of voting for her. I dunno. Hm.

Angela


not so quick
young lady


please give Mitt one, or maybe two more flip flops to earn your vote
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:18 PM   #323
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It doesn't matter, my ppl love me.
How much does that cost you?
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Old 10-12-2007, 05:57 PM   #324
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


And what a great job he did of that, too....

eltimbomofo, that's a great story you shared regarding your meetings with Gore. I particularly like the autograph bit. I have no complaints with Gore (it's amazing how much more respect he's gained since 2000), so if he were to decide to run, hey, I say go for it.


Angela
Thanks for saying that.
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Old 10-12-2007, 08:16 PM   #325
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You're welcome .

Angela
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:53 PM   #326
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Gore is not going to run again. He's said it over and over and over again.

Moving on to another candidate, Edwards gave an interesting speech today...

Today In New Hampshire Edwards Outlines Agenda To Return The Power In Washington To Regular People

Will Strengthen the Voice of Ordinary Citizens, Reform Campaign Finance, and Curb the Influence of Federal Lobbyists

Manchester, NH - Today, at a town hall in Keene, Senator John Edwards delivered a major policy address unveiling his proposal for Returning Washington to Regular People. Edwards' three-pronged approach calls for strengthening the voice of ordinary citizens through election reform, reforming campaign finance to strengthen small donors, and ending the unique power of lobbyists.

"The American people are sick and tired of business as usual," said Edwards. "Lobbyists and the special interests they represent are pouring millions of dollars into the system, corrupting our democracy and stopping the change we need dead in its tracks. With all the money flooding into politics, you'd think that instead of holding elections we were auctioning our leaders off to the highest bidders. Our founding fathers intended our government to do the will of the people, but regular people can't afford a voice in today's pay-to-play Washington.

"It's time to put an end to the special deals enjoyed by lobbyists and insiders at the expense of regular Americans. We must strengthen voting and campaign finance laws and curb the influence of campaign contributions from special interests, so that everyone has a voice in the political process and the people decide who leads this nation."

Edwards' proposal to end the money game in Washington and return the power to the American people is focused on three main principles:

Reforming Campaign Finance to Strengthen Small Donors: John Edwards believes elections should be about ideas rather than money. Few Americans can afford to make $4,600 contributions to gain access to presidential candidates, and the integrity of our campaign financing system depends upon smaller donors continuing to play an important role in the political process. Edwards' campaign is built upon the support of small donors - in fact, 93 percent of the campaign's donations come from donors contributing less than $100. As president, Edwards will create a new Grassroots Presidential Financing System to match small donations under $100 by eight to one, making two $100 donations as valuable to a campaign as a single $1,000 donation. He will also reduce the maximum contribution from $2,300 to $1,000 per person, to better reflect the incomes of most Americans. Edwards will create a system of full public financing for Congressional candidates and require corporations to disclose their political activity and spending.

Ending the Unique Power of Lobbyists: Edwards will prohibit all candidates and federal office holders from accepting contributions from lobbyists and will prohibit federal lobbyists from acting as fundraisers or bundlers for federal candidates. He will limit the ability of lobbyists to secure lucrative earmarks by enacting a Constitutional version of the line-item veto, where the president can require an up or down vote on special-interest spending. Edwards will close the revolving door between Capitol Hill and K Street by reinstating the five-year ban on lobbying by former top government officials and by banning former lobbyists from taking executive branch positions related to their former clients. Finally, he will curb lobbyists' influence by increasing disclosure requirements for lobbyist activity and by prohibiting government executives from accepting gifts and travel from lobbyists and their employers.

Strengthening the Voice of Ordinary Citizens: To ensure everyone's vote is counted, Edwards will require that all voting machines, including electronic ones, use paper ballots that can be verified by voters. He will also give D.C. residents voting representation in Congress, allow Election Day Registration in federal elections, fight voter suppression and intimidation and end the disenfranchisement of former prisoners who have served their time. In order to increase citizen engagement, Edwards will ask one million citizens to participate in biennial Citizen Congresses - national town hall meetings where regular Americans tackle national issues together, without the filters of interest groups and the media. Similar projects have given citizens a voice in community solutions across the country, including in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

More details here: http://johnedwards.com/issues/govt-reform/
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:59 PM   #327
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OK. That was interesting. I'm not sold on Edwards. But that's a step. Now I have to be convinced that that is not just blah-blah.
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:11 AM   #328
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for any kucinich followers: dennis will be on the colbert report tonight
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:23 AM   #329
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What time is that on?

ETA: Oh, never mind. I have class tonight.
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:51 PM   #330
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Good idea by Edwards there. I hope he means it.
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:23 PM   #331
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WASHINGTON (CNN) — Democratic White House hopeful Hillary Clinton told ABC's “The View” Monday that it's different running for president as a woman, noting people focus more attention on her appearances and mannerisms than on those of her male counterparts.

"Oh, yes, yes. Oh, yes," Clinton said when asked about the difficulties she encounters as a woman candidate. "The hair. The hair. The clothes. The laugh," the New York Democrat added, referencing the scrutiny she has faced on her evolving hairstyles, clothes, and most recently on what some have dubbed her 'cackle.'

"I do think that there still is, you know, probably a tougher standard for women, especially running for president," she added. "I mean, we've all been through it in some way or another. Where you go and you try to break a barrier, you try to do the best you can, and people are saying, ‘Well, I don't like her clothes,’ or, ‘I don't like her hair,’ or whatever."

During her appearance on The View, Clinton also brushed aside the suggestion that leaders from countries unsympathetic to women's rights would refuse to meet with her if she was elected president.

"You know, I have been to 82 countries," the Democratic frontrunner said. "And I have met with the leaders of a lot of countries that are not exactly in the forefront of giving women their rights. And I've never found that to be a problem."

“I actually think, assuming I'm so fortunate as to be elected, that sends a very strong message to those countries and to those leaders,” she added.

Clinton's appearance on the daytime talk show kicked off a week in which she is aiming to play up her connection to female voters. Appearing at a women's luncheon honoring Eleanor Roosevelt later on Monday, Clinton said she often draws inspiration from the former first lady.

"She said, 'You know, if you're going to be involved in politics you have to grow skin as thick as a rhinoceros,"' Clinton noted. "So occasionally, I'll be sitting somewhere and I'll be listening to someone perhaps not saying the kindest things about me. And I'll look down at my hand and I'll sort of pinch my skin to make sure it still has the requisite thickness I know Eleanor Roosevelt expects me to have."
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:31 PM   #332
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WASHINGTON (CNN) — Democratic White House hopeful Hillary Clinton told ABC's “The View” Monday that it's different running for president as a woman, noting people focus more attention on her appearances and mannerisms than on those of her male counterparts.

That "faggy' Edwards might disagree.
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:58 PM   #333
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hillary

are there actually any decent candidates?
Although I was leaning towards Edwards before [ Republican] I'm not sure if hes a better choice than McCain.

It'll be my first time voting
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:59 PM   #334
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This is an interesting article and lays pretty well why this race is anything but already wrapped up by Hillary...

How Hillary could tank
From hubby Bill's uncharted role to the Karl Rove factor to her hawkish voting record, the top 10 reasons why Clinton could take a fatal dive in the '08 race.

By Walter Shapiro

Oct. 16, 2007 | It is a paradox of the presidential primary season: Democratic voters -- and, yes, reporters -- claim to crave a wide-open, spirited fight for the nomination, yet simultaneously are eager to pronounce the race over before a single vote has been cast. From Ed Muskie in 1972 to Howard Dean four years ago, history should have taught handicappers that betting the mortgage money on the odds-on favorite is a mug's game.

Hillary Clinton is the latest beneficiary of this premature rush to certainty. Clinton's meet-her-again-for-the-first-time rollout has softened her image, repositioned her as the Democrats' most experienced candidate, airbrushed away her years of ambivalence on the Iraq war and turned her 1994 healthcare reform debacle into a scars-to-prove-it asset. At the same time, her campaign has shown uncharacteristic flashes of boldness from small matters (putting together a "Sopranos" parody video in a week, featuring Bill and Hillary) to large (matching John Edwards with a full-coverage-for-everyone healthcare plan).

All this has led to the latest episode of I-is-for-Inevitability. Despite the growing (and, in some cases, the grudging) sense that the former first lady's nomination is preordained and the primaries mere formalities, Clinton still must avoid a dirt-road-in-rainy-season ration of potholes on the way to the Denver Convention. Here are 10 factors that could permanently postpone the Hillary-for-president balloon drop:

1) When bad things happen to good candidates
Since James Monroe's "Era of Good Feeling" romp to reelection in 1820, front-runners have all endured a week, a month or an eternity when the media mood shifts and the polls plummet. Despite a few notes of skepticism in the spring when Barack Obama first displayed his fundraising prowess, Clinton has yet to go through even a single bad-hair day.

Something will inevitably arise to remind voters of her vulnerabilities. It could be, say, a maladroit response to a voter's question, a new fundraising scandal or an effective attack ad targeting her. The best justification for the endless campaign season is that it replicates (as much as anything possibly can) the stresses of actually serving in the White House. Some candidates -- Dean, for example -- never recover from their first crisis, while others -- like Bill Clinton in 1992 -- thrive on them.

Up to now, the Democratic debates have been as decorous as a student-council election in a 1950s sitcom. That will change as the time grows short -- and Clinton's challengers grow desperate. Until the New York senator stares down a roomful of rivals on the attack, or glares her way through a media feeding frenzy, she is not ready to be crowned as the 2008 nominee.

2) Political calendar choler
The order of the early caucuses and primaries can set Clinton up for a string of stinging setbacks. Her weakest state, at the moment, is Iowa where the opening-gun caucuses play a disproportionate role in shaping the contours of the contest. Clinton is locked in a three-way battle with Edwards and Obama in this state of notorious late-deciders who can stampede away from the favorite in, well, a New York minute.

A memo put out by the Obama campaign last week argues that the race is close in Iowa "not because it's the one state in the union immune to Senator Clinton appeal. It is because voters are playing close attention ... As other early states get more engaged, we will see a much closer race."

Handicapping Iowa at this stage is nearly impossible. Polls have the accuracy of a blunderbuss, in part because there is no certainty how many Iowa Democrats will actually attend the caucuses. Private estimates from campaign officials range from 125,000 (roughly the 2004 turnout) to a historic high of 200,000. Pollster Mark Blumenthal on his blog points out, "Since late July, we have seen 13 different Democratic polls in Iowa taken by 11 difference pollsters. Each pollster does things differently, so we have 11 different conceptions of 'likely caucus-goers.'"

What this means, in reality, is that Hillary Clinton could easily finish second and conceivably even third in Iowa. Potentially dragging her down is a quirk in Iowa Democratic rules that encourages backers of candidates with less than 15 percent support at a caucus site to switch to another contender. The best guess is that these second-choice voters are more likely to go to, say, Edwards or Obama than Clinton.

If that happens, "Hillary in Trouble" becomes a major headline coming out of Iowa. Virtually all current polls give Clinton a 2-to-1 lead in New Hampshire, but it is too soon to pronounce these numbers definitive. Most Granite State voters remain up for grabs -- a CNN-WMUR poll in late September found that 55 percent of New Hampshire Democrats are still trying to decide on a candidate.

In theory -- though it has not been demonstrated by his campaign so far -- Obama should be the ideal New Hampshire candidate. The state has a long history of opting for soft-spoken reformers running against the anointed favorite: Gary Hart (1984), Paul Tsongas (1992) and even Bill Bradley (2000), who came within less than 7,000 votes of pulling off a major upset against Al Gore.

After New Hampshire, the Democratic race may be quickly redefined as Clinton vs. the anti-Hillary. Especially if the alternative is Obama, he will have the money and the momentum to battle the former first lady in the next primary state, South Carolina, with its heavy concentration of African-American voters. All this sets up a scenario under which Clinton loses the nomination in the simplest fashion possible -- by failing to win an early state.

3) The Bill comes due
The wild-card factor in 2008 is the most important political spouse in American history. Bill Clinton has bequeathed his wife experience by association and has revived talk of the "Buy One, Get One Free" deal originally offered the voters in 1992.

But the ex-president in the past has also (how can we put this delicately?) displayed a predilection for creating soap-opera moments unrelated to his policy-wonk side. The unprecedented financial questions raised by his frenetic speechmaking and his fundraising for his foundation and library also could become an issue in the closing weeks of the campaign. In short, even if the nation is freed from any more fervid discussions of "the Clinton marriage," the 42nd president's role in the 44th president's White House may give Democrats pause when it is time to actually vote.

4) Some other candidate gets his act together
"Barack Obama, please call your office. Your charisma has been located."

In truth, the first-term Illinois senator has more than enough time to relaunch "Obama-mania." At this point four years ago, John Kerry was broke, had just shaken up his campaign staff and was attracting smaller crowds than an itinerant Bulgarian poet. Obama, with more than enough money to compete with Clinton all the way to the Democratic convention, is her most formidable rival. All of the adoring crowds that flock to his appearances in Iowa and New Hampshire want him to be president some day. Obama's challenge in the months ahead is to convince these erstwhile supporters that he is ready to be president in 2009.

Edwards may be running a one-state strategy, but because that state is Iowa, which he almost carried in 2004, he remains the candidate best positioned to break out with a dramatic victory. For Bill Richardson, in particular, and perhaps Joe Biden and Chris Dodd, there remains the possibility of gaining instant credibility by beating expectations in Iowa.

5) A cautionary tale
Perhaps the emblematic moment for Hillary Clinton came at the end of the Dartmouth debate late last month when she could not even offer a straight answer about whom she would root for in the wildly improbable situation that her beloved Chicago Cubs played her adopted New York Yankees in the World Series. The higher Clinton rises in the polls, the more she avoids uttering anything besides perfectly constructed paragraphs of poll-tested mush. On her recent swing through New Hampshire, she offered a stirring portrait in amiable inaccessibility.

This level of mind-numbing caution sadly may be what is required to run a successful campaign against the Republicans in the fall 2008 election. But it is not what voters in Iowa and New Hampshire expect during the early going. The last presidential candidate to smugly bank on his last name -- Bush, in this case -- lost the 2000 New Hampshire primary by 20 points to John McCain.

Presidential primaries are also a way for Democratic voters in particular to demonstrate their taste, discernment and individuality. Voters this year know they are not choosing a president, but rather a nominee in a race in which all the mainstream Democratic contenders would be credible candidates in November 2008. When the risks of a mistake are this small, primary voters can easily balk at voting for the favorite. After all, where is the fun in trailing along at the tail end of an imperial procession?

6) Hillary the hawk or "I ran straight to the center"
As the only Democratic presidential candidate to vote for the Senate resolution declaring Iran's Revolutionary Guard to be a "terrorist organization," Clinton revived suspicions that she may be the most hawkish, er, centrist Democrat in the race. The New York senator had successfully joined the Democratic consensus against the Iraqi misadventure, but her cover-her-right-flank vote on Iran may yet prove a problem with antiwar voters in Iowa and New Hampshire. There is a window of vulnerability for any presidential candidate in embarking on a general-election strategy before winning the primaries.

7) The anti-royalist rebellion
Although Clinton has deflected this question in several debates, there is a lingering uneasiness about the White House being reserved for just the Bush and Clinton families for 24 years. Voters could have banana-republic problems (not the clothing store) with living in a country where the Oval Office is reserved solely for the spouses and children of presidents.

8) The Karl Rove factor
Democratic voters may wonder why Rove and Rudy Giuliani have been boosting Clinton as the all-but-certain Democratic nominee. Maybe Karl and Rudy just possess a shrewd understanding of the inner workings of the rival political party. Or maybe they are secretly salivating at the thought of running against a Democratic nominee whose negatives invite an armada of Swift-boat attacks. More than 40 percent of the electorate have held an unfavorable view of Hillary in every Gallup Poll in the last two years. (In contrast, Obama's unfavorable rating is 27 percent and Edwards' is 31 percent in the latest Gallup Poll released earlier this month.)

Among Democrats, however, Clinton is currently regarded as the most electable candidate against the Republicans. But that image of invincibility might not survive a few rough weeks of campaign news or a setback in, say, Iowa. In that case, win-back-the-White-House-or-else Democratic voters may worry about spending a month of the fall campaign arguing, yet again, over Hillary's miraculous track record as a commodities trader.

9) If she hasn't closed the deal by now
Hillary Rodham Clinton has been in the public eye for nearly 16 years. Yet despite her strong overall lead, more than half the Democratic voters (in almost every poll) prefer other presidential candidates. For all her success at rebranding herself this year, it is worth asking what more can she do to win over the still skeptical wing of the Democratic Party?

10) The iron law of politics
Surprising things happen. The future is not an unchanging extrapolation from today. "Expect the unexpected" is an expression that anyone over the age of 17 finds a cloying cliché. But when it comes to a presidential campaign -- more than two months before the Iowa caucuses -- it is also a perfect description of reality.

Hillary Clinton is unquestionably the most likely person to be both the Democratic nominee and the next president. But there are hardly any guarantees, despite a media consensus prematurely handing her the nomination. She once boasted that "she's in it to win it." Now it is up to the New York senator to prove it.
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Old 10-16-2007, 03:51 PM   #335
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WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Fred Thompson got into the Republican race with great expectations. And sure enough, just after he got in last month, polling showed Thompson and Rudy Giuliani were just about tied for front-runner.

But since then, Thompson's taken a lot of flak for alackluster campaign from party activists in Iowa and New Hampshire.

Support for his campaign has also wavered. The new CNN poll by the Opinion Research Corporation released Tuesday shows Thompson's support dropping -- now at 19 percent, down from 27 percent in September.

He's now running second, slightly ahead of Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, who has 17 percent. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, still leads with 27 percent.

Of the remaining Republican presidential candidates, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney received support from13 percent of the Republicans polled, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee received 5 percent, Rep. Duncan Hunter of California received 3 percent, Rep. Ron Paul of Texas received 2 percent, Sen. Brownback of Kansas received 1 percent and Rep. Tom Tancredo of Colorado received 1 percent.

The poll's margin of error for the Republican race is plus or minus 5 percentage points.

On the Democratic side, Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York continues to gain support and build on her lead. She led Sen. Barack Obama by 23 points last month -- 46 percent to 23 percent. She now leads the Illinois senator by 30 points -- 51 percent to 21 percent.

Of the remaining Democratic presidential candidates former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards received support from 15 percent of the Democrats polled, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson received 4 percent, Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware received 1 percent, Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut received 1 percent, former Alaska Sen. Mike Gravel received 1 percent and Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio received 1 percent. On this question former Vice President Al Gore was not included as a candidate.

The margin of error for the Democratic poll was plus or minus 4.5 percent percentage points.

The poll, conducted by telephone on October 12-14, involved interviews with 1,212 adults, including 485 registered voters who describe themselves as Democrats or as Independents who lean Democratic, and 374 registered voters who describe themselves as Republicans or as Independents who lean Republican.

A majority of Democrats favor Clinton, whereas fewer than a third of Republicans favor their front-runner, Giuliani.

Now that Gore has won the Nobel Peace Prize, there doesn't appear to be a surge of support for him to make a run. Gore came in third among Democrats, at 14 percent -- about the same as last month -- when included in the poll as a potential candidate.

Expectations are building fast. Nearly two-thirds, or 64 percent, of those polled expect Clinton to be the Democratic nomination. That's four times more than those who expect Obama to be the nominee.

Of those polled, who do they expect to win the Republican nomination? Half chose Giuliani. That's nearly four to one over John McCain.

And who do voters expect to win the election? Clinton was chosen by 45 percent. Only 16 percent expect Giuliani to get elected. Nobody else gets more than 10 percent.

Now it's Clinton who faces great expectations. Here's one reason: Asked if they would vote for the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate for president, voters prefer the Democrat by 13 points.

But when the two front-runners are pitted against each other, Clinton leads Guiliani by just two percentage points, 49 percent to 47 percent, a statistical tie.

The poll's margin of error for general election questions is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Why would a Clinton-Giuliani matchup be so close? Mainly because Giuliani does eight points better than a generic Republican.

The race between Clinton and Giuliani is close, not because Clinton is weak, but because Giuliani gets a lot more support from moderate and independent voters than a generic Republican candidate. That's the irony, Giuliani is trying to sound more and more like a typical Republican to get the nomination. But voters don't see him as a typical Republican
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:19 PM   #336
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http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/16/...ighth-cousins/

Lynne Cheney: ‘Dick and Barack Obama are eighth cousins.’

In an MSNBC interview today, host Norah O’Donnell asked Lynne Cheney her views on Sen. Hillary Clinton’s (D-NY) presidential campaign and whether “America is ready for a woman president.” Cheney replied that she actually has a “certain bias”:

One of the things I discovered was that Dick and Barack Obama are eighth cousins. Is that an amazing thing? If you go back eight generations, we have a common ancestor.


When asked if that means she’s “for Barack Obama,” Cheney replied, “No.”
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:22 PM   #337
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That's just funny.
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:52 PM   #338
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Quote:
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One of the things I discovered was that Dick and Barack Obama are eighth cousins. Is that an amazing thing? If you go back eight generations, we have a common ancestor.
I really do think that if you go back far enough, we are all related, and I don't mean through Adam and Eve.
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Old 10-16-2007, 04:53 PM   #339
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This was linked in another article I read about that Lynne Cheney interview

Chicago Sun Times

So far, no sign he's related to Hillary

September 9, 2007
BY SCOTT FORNEK Political Editor

It sure would be an awkward family reunion. But, believe it or not, Barack Obama is related to both President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

OK, distantly related: Obama and Bush are 11th cousins.

That's because they share the same great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents -- Samuel Hinckley and Sarah Soole Hinckley of 17th century Massachusetts.

That means Obama and former President George Herbert Walker Bush are 10th cousins once removed.

Obama is related to Cheney through Mareen Duvall, a 17th century immigrant from France.

Mareen and Susannah Duvall were Obama's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents and Cheney's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents.

That makes Obama and Cheney ninth cousins once removed.

Cheney and Bush are related to one another by a completely different common ancestor.

We leave it to you to figure out their relationship.
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Old 10-16-2007, 05:57 PM   #340
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