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Old 04-18-2017, 10:35 PM   #661
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I think the media and the administration need to just stop Trump from talking at all for a while. Leave this situation to people who actually know what the hell they're doing.

Trump supporters, meanwhile, need to take a long, hard look at their life choices.
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:36 PM   #662
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Covering the Trump administration is difficult because it requires disentangling three strands of its behavior: the normal, the incompetent, and the dangerous.

The normal aspect—the administration’s conventional Republican policies and appointments—is, broadly speaking, politics as usual. The amateur aspect—its early fumbling and bumbling—is what one finds every time power changes hands, exacerbated by an unusually inexperienced incoming team. The danger is unique.

Every administration spins, fights with the press and the bureaucracy, pushes its own agenda, and tries to evade intrusive oversight. But ordinary White Houses do not repeatedly lie, declare war on mainstream media institutions, pursue radical goals while disdaining professional input, and refuse to accept independent scrutiny.

How seriously you take these behaviors depends on how you assess the motivations behind them, generating a game that some have taken to calling “Stupid or nefarious?” or “Veep or House of Cards?” Do slow appointments signal poor management or a deliberate attempt to “deconstruct the administrative state,” as Trump guru Steve Bannon says? Is dismissing experienced senior officials en masse just a clumsy way of handling a presidential transition or a purge of potential obstacles and whistleblowers? Are all the lies mere venting or a deliberate plot to distract critics and undermine reasoned discourse?
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...nt-destruction
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:52 PM   #663
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I think the media and the administration need to just stop Trump from talking at all for a while. Leave this situation to people who actually know what the hell they're doing.

Trump supporters, meanwhile, need to take a long, hard look at their life choices.
While I tend to agree, I also caution myself to not make too many assumptions or generalizations about Trump supporters. There is in fact a spectrum, even if many of the most visible ones seem like they deserve everything they get.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/o...mp-voters.html
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:07 AM   #664
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I do appreciate the sentiment. After all, the great moral genius of Barack Obama was that he lost a congressional majority bringing health insurance to the children of the very people who called him n*gger.

But there's an inexcusableness about a Trump vote that I find impossible to get around. What did you think was going to happen? It's not like we didn't know it was going to be this bad. It's not like we didn't know he didn't know anything (and didn't know that he didn't know). We had the racism and sexual assault. And yet it was still ok to do such a thing?
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:14 AM   #665
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I think the media and the administration need to just stop Trump from talking at all for a while. Leave this situation to people who actually know what the hell they're doing.

Trump supporters, meanwhile, need to take a long, hard look at their life choices.
Plot twist: nobody knows what they're doing.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:21 AM   #666
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Plot twist: nobody knows what they're doing.
hey Vlad, off-topic, but what do you think about Melenchon doing so well in the polls right now? it's looking like a 4-horse race into the 1st round... i am so pleasantly surprised and, if i had a vote, would 100% vote for him... seeing so much support for him among my friends and he has a huge following among young people - will be an interesting weekend - really hoping he gets through to the next round... would restore some faith in humanity
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:48 AM   #667
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Oh this is so fun. I'm in France right now and will be here just in time for post-election celebrations. And then I'll be in the UK for post-election celebrations there, too!
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:20 AM   #668
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hey Vlad, off-topic, but what do you think about Melenchon doing so well in the polls right now? it's looking like a 4-horse race into the 1st round... i am so pleasantly surprised and, if i had a vote, would 100% vote for him... seeing so much support for him among my friends and he has a huge following among young people - will be an interesting weekend - really hoping he gets through to the next round... would restore some faith in humanity
Of course I'm not Vlad, but do you think Melenchon may have a similar effect on the France election the way Bernie did within the Democratic party?

If he gets through: Would his votes help Le Pen?

If he doesn't: Would his supporters stay home or vote against Le Pen (or for her?)

This feels like a very critical election for Europe. Having someone like Le Pen in charge, guess it's a lot like Trump....we don't really know what will happen. Assume the worst, hope for meh.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:45 PM   #669
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it's nice when bad things happen to bad people.

Sources: Fox News Has Decided Bill O’Reilly Has to Go
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:56 PM   #670
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While I tend to agree, I also caution myself to not make too many assumptions or generalizations about Trump supporters. There is in fact a spectrum, even if many of the most visible ones seem like they deserve everything they get.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/06/o...mp-voters.html
I really disagree with a lot of that article.

The statement that progress cannot be made until "flyover country" is brought into the fold is simply untrue and also makes a small number of people in a small number of states disproportionately important in an election. The truth is about 20-25% of the country is immovable. These are the people who supported Dick Cheney in the end and probably the bulk of the open racists/other -ists. You will NEVER bring them into the fold and anybody who thinks otherwise is an idiot. The other thing is that there are relatively few "independent" voters who can be swung. You can probably bring some or many into the fold but the reality is that their number is tiny in comparison to the most important group out there - people who do not typically vote at all. The 18-25 crowd, blacks and Latinos, people living off the grid, people who feel totally disenfranchised (Trump brought out a bunch of this last group).

So the notion that we should all bend over for Trump voters and somehow accommodate them or wait it out until they come to the light is inefficient at best and disingenuous at worst.
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:02 PM   #671
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So the notion that we should all bend over for Trump voters and somehow accommodate them or wait it out until they come to the light is inefficient at best and disingenuous at worst.
Fair enough but I don't think the article is saying that we have to bend over to or accommodate them (I will reread it) but rather that they are not all the same and many if not most have very different motivations.

Casting them all as racist bigots is not just inaccurate (I recognize a lot of the more visible ones are, unfortunately) but more importantly it is counter-productive...
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Old 04-19-2017, 01:09 PM   #672
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Fair enough but I don't think the article is saying that we have to bend over to or accommodate them (I will reread it) but rather that they are not all the same and many if not most have very different motivations.
The article posits that we must "bring them into the fold" - well how do you propose we do that if not accommodating some of their demands?

Meanwhile almost half the country didn't vote at all. THAT is fertile ground for progress, not people who think that the Midwest will be an industrial and coal paradise again soon.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:02 PM   #673
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Exxon seeking sanctions waiver to work in Russia. Wonder what Tillerson discussed with Putin when they met?! What a joke!

https://www.wsj.com/articles/exxon-s...ons-1492620677
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:39 PM   #674
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I bring good news

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d314a0cb3639
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:00 PM   #675
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More good news...

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/1...legations.html

Leaves him free to run for president! :-0
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:11 PM   #676
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Well, they're replacing him with Tucker Carlson. Sooooo is it really good news?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:19 PM   #677
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There's always room for more douchebags at Fox News!
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:33 PM   #678
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Meanwhile almost half the country didn't vote at all. THAT is fertile ground for progress


i've been pondering this lately, as well as the notion that if we just had another liberal (real liberal, not a fake liberal like HRC) messiah who addressed their concerns that the non-voters would be motivated to show up at the polls on a Tuesday in November.

but if the existential threat of a Trump presidency wasn't enough to get these people to vote, what is?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:34 PM   #679
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Doesn't the voting turnout percentage always end up alarmingly low? like hovering around half the eligible population?
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:41 PM   #680
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Doesn't the voting turnout percentage always end up alarmingly low? like hovering around half the eligible population?

i think it's between 50-55% depending, Obama i think getting the highest turnouts.

i'm wondering what's preventing this 45% from not voting. apathy? ignorance? depression? ennui? working 3 jobs? entitlement that someone hasn't personally massaged their feet in order to win their vote?

i do think part of the problem is the Tuesday thing -- young people work, retirees do not.

but, honestly, with early voting more and more of a thing and the inescapable bombardment of the 24/7 news cycle in all aspects of life, how does one not vote? at least in such large numbers?
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