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Old 06-22-2011, 10:10 AM   #141
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Just thought this was cute. I do love his smile. And he's a natural with that baby there. Baby whisperer?

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Old 06-22-2011, 01:37 PM   #142
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Anderson Cooper Calls Out Obama's Gay Marriage Flip Flopping (VIDEO)
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:33 PM   #143
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Would you mind federal involvement in restricting abortion or gay marriage?

Isn't it more honest to say that you don't like the WAY Obama's government intervenes in "state affairs"? rather than that you oppose Big Government in general?
I'm a Tenth Amendment guy. Unfortunately, laws related to your two examples, abortion and gay marriage, have too often been written by judges rather than legislatures the past 40 years leading to social acrimony.
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Old 06-22-2011, 06:51 PM   #144
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Unfortunately, laws related to your two examples, abortion and gay marriage, have too often been written by judges rather than legislatures the past 40 years leading to social acrimony.
Is it that you don't understand the concept of the common law system under which you live?

Or that you'd prefer to be like France and have a civil code?
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:08 PM   #145
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I'm a Tenth Amendment guy. Unfortunately, laws related to your two examples, abortion and gay marriage, have too often been written by judges rather than legislatures the past 40 years leading to social acrimony.
So I'm understanding that you would oppose any federal measures on these issues whether pro or con?

DOMA etc, you're against. . .standing on principal.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:11 PM   #146
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Is it that you don't understand the concept of the common law system under which you live?

Or that you'd prefer to be like France and have a civil code?
I live in a sovereign constitutional republic consisting of 50 states. A republic because the lawmakers are elected and constitutional because the powers of the government are limited by a constitution.

It is neither republican when unelected officials make laws nor constitutional when the federal government exceeds its enumerated powers and intrudes on states rights.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:19 PM   #147
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So I'm understanding that you would oppose any federal measures on these issues whether pro or con?

DOMA etc, you're against. . .standing on principal.
DOMA was passed to protect states from having other state laws imposed on them through the Full Faith and Credit Clause and to define marriage for federal purposes.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:54 PM   #148
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define marriage for federal purposes.
So you would not be opposed to federal involvement in non-constitutional issues such as marriage?
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:15 PM   #149
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So you would not be opposed to federal involvement in non-constitutional issues such as marriage?
Not getting into all this again but clearly a working definition of all words in any piece of legislation or regulation is a necessity. Be it "wage," "citizen," or "marriage." Suffice it to say that until recently there was no ambiguity whatsoever as to the definition of marriage.
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:27 PM   #150
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Not getting into all this again but clearly a working definition of all words in any piece of legislation or regulation is a necessity. Be it "wage," "citizen," or "marriage." Suffice it to say that until recently there was no ambiguity whatsoever as to the definition of marriage.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to lure you into a fight over gay marriage.

I AM trying to lure you into a fight over whether you aren't actually rather selective in what you mean when you say you oppose "big government" especially big federal government.

Of course I wouldn't expect you to use the words "Big Government." Indeed liberals don't even use that term.

I lived for 11 years with a truly bloated local government and I can talk for hours about its evils.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:53 PM   #151
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Restricting citizens from being able to get married seems quite "big government" to me.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:04 PM   #152
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Restricting citizens from being able to get married seems quite "big government" to me.
Exactly.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:45 AM   #153
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Restricting citizens from being able to get married seems quite "big government" to me.
So "big government" drove the Mormons west from New York to what eventually would become the state of Utah?
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:59 AM   #154
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So "big government" drove the Mormons west from New York to what eventually would become the state of Utah?
Not quite. I'm sure Diamond (or even deep) could explain it better than I could, but part of what drove the Mormons west was the disapproval of the surrounding community.

But that's neither here nor there.

So, to stay on point, what is your point about the appropriate role of government?
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:03 AM   #155
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Good luck Sean, we've been waiting years for that answer from INDY...
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:08 AM   #156
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Good luck Sean, we've been waiting years for that answer from INDY...
And I've been waiting for years for serious conservative to enter the fray here.

Maybe I should talk my buddy Grant into joining Interference. . .

Here in America: Making Politics Polite
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:52 AM   #157
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And I've been waiting for years for serious conservative to enter the fray here.
Same here...


Quote:
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Maybe I should talk my buddy Grant into joining Interference. . .

Here in America: Making Politics Polite
Very enjoyable read.
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Old 06-23-2011, 11:19 AM   #158
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Same here...




Very enjoyable read.
Thanks. FYM really deserved a mention in that post.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:46 PM   #159
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So, to stay on point, what is your point about the appropriate role of government?
Ok, just for you I'll put on my "serious conservative" face.



As neither an anarchist nor libertarian but as a serious conservative I recognize the role of government. Both constitutionally and as a matter of practicality. Though I do have a natural distrust of government I believe it plays a vital role in a civil society. I want, and have no problem paying for through taxes, governments that will efficiently manage or administer; law enforcement, public safety, highways and other large public works, the regulation of food and drugs, the enactment of zoning laws, reasonable conservation of our land, waterways and wildlife, the setting up of licensing boards, public education, etc.

As a serious conservative I believe the less people dependant on government the better while the statist (modern liberal) believes the opposite. That our compassion is measured by the largess of our entitlement programs.

As a serious conservative I feel compelled to provide at least one Ronald Reagan quote.
"There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts."

Finally, as a serious conservative... I need to eat some dinner.
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Old 06-23-2011, 09:43 PM   #160
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Ok, just for you I'll put on my "serious conservative" face.



As neither an anarchist nor libertarian but as a serious conservative I recognize the role of government. Both constitutionally and as a matter of practicality. Though I do have a natural distrust of government I believe it plays a vital role in a civil society. I want, and have no problem paying for through taxes, governments that will efficiently manage or administer; law enforcement, public safety, highways and other large public works, the regulation of food and drugs, the enactment of zoning laws, reasonable conservation of our land, waterways and wildlife, the setting up of licensing boards, public education, etc.

As a serious conservative I believe the less people dependant on government the better while the statist (modern liberal) believes the opposite. That our compassion is measured by the largess of our entitlement programs.

As a serious conservative I feel compelled to provide at least one Ronald Reagan quote.
"There’s a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts."

Finally, as a serious conservative... I need to eat some dinner.
With a face like that, I can see why you usually aren't serious!

Seriously though--haha, I probably agree with you with all is said and done. Maybe I'm not really a liberal. . .because I also have a certain basic distrust of government, having, as I mentioned before, seen firsthand a bloated government sector in the Marianas Islands. And I certainly do not feel that our compassion is measured by the largesse of our entitlement programs. Yet at the same time I'm not so horrified by the European system which has high taxes and generous entitlement programs (Though I do think it's a bit absurd when people are taking to the streets over government austerity programs in Greece. I mean come on, the state is bankrupt, you'd think people would recognize something has to give). So then again I guess I'm not conservative eitehr.

I also don't believe that the private sector and the Market is the Solution to all things. I'd say I'm equally distrustful of big business as I am of big government though for different reasons. I feel conservatives are almost naiive in their trust in the private sector to protect their interests. So I guess that makes me liberal again.

Here's my thing. I know you like to come in and yank the chains of the left-leaning FYM folk and hey, far be it from me to tell you how to spend your time in here. And there is value in keeping things light. But, I do think that serious contributions like the one you just made (the face not withstanding) really would be useful. People may not agree with you, but it would still be more useful than the entertainment-that-passes-as-critical-thought that I hear coming from the public faces of the Right these days.

I WANT to be challenged. . .I want to have to really think about my positions on the current issues.

Oh and one more thing. . .as a serious liberal, I must emplore you to give your dinner to the poor rather than selfishly consuming it yourself!
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