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Old 02-02-2012, 02:13 PM   #801
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Bring on Iran!!!
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:22 PM   #802
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God, let's hope not.

Wow, really? We may finally be getting out of Afghanistan?

That would be fantastic.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:11 PM   #803
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WASHINGTON (AP) — Blending politics and religion, President Barack Obama said his Christian faith is a driving force behind his economic policies, from Wall Street reform to his calls for the wealthy to pay higher taxes.

Obama's remarks Thursday at the National Prayer Breakfast were his most explicit account of how his personal religious beliefs factor into his decision-making on the nation's pressing problems. The comments came amid election-year criticism from Catholic groups and some Republicans that the president is waging a war on religion following his decision to require church-affiliated institutions to cover free birth control for employees.

Speaking to more than 3,000 people at the annual breakfast, Obama said "faith and values" should play as much as role in tackling the nation's challenges as sound decision-making and smart policies.

He said, for example, that his own call for fairness in the tax code — a central tenet of his State of the Union address and his 2012 campaign — is both economically sound and consistent with the teachings of Jesus.

"If I'm willing to give something up as somebody who's been extraordinarily blessed, and give up some of the tax breaks that I enjoy, I actually think that's going to make economic sense," he said. "But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus's teaching that 'for unto whom much is given, much shall be required.' It mirrors the Islamic belief that those who've been blessed have an obligation to use those blessings to help others, or the Jewish doctrine of moderation and consideration for others."

He also said the Wall Street reform he championed both "makes the economy stronger for everyone" and abides by God's command to "love thy neighbor as thyself" because it helped people who had been hurt or treated unfairly by financial institutions.

And Obama said he believed in a "biblical call" to care for the poor and to follow "the responsibility we're given in Proverbs to 'Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute.'"

The president's remarks came one day after Mitt Romney, the front-runner for the Republican nomination, created a flap with clumsy comments about the poor.

Romney said wasn't concerned about the "very poor" because they have a safety net. He also said he wasn't concerned about the very rich and intended to focus his campaign on the middle class.

"You can focus on the very poor; that's not my focus," Romney said.

While the White House said the president's remarks were not meant to be political, his comments did fit neatly into the Obama campaign's effort to draw sharp contrasts between the president and Romney.

The former Massachusetts governor is among Republicans who have criticized the president for not exempting religious organizations from a requirement in the 2010 health care law that requires insurers to cover birth control for their employees. Romney said this week that the president was ordering "religious organizations to violate their conscience."

GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich said Obama has "declared war on the Catholic Church," and House Speaker John Boehner said Thursday the mandate violates the Constitution.

Obama never mentioned the controversy in his remarks Thursday, nor did he reference his Republican rivals by name. But his broader defense of his policies was a rare interjection of politics into the annual prayer breakfast. The breakfast is organized by bipartisan congressional lawmakers, but speakers often avoid overt political references beyond calling for civility and respect in Washington.

While Obama speaks often about his faith, he prefers to worship in private. He said Thursday that he starts each morning with a brief prayer, then spends time reading scripture. Sometimes, he said, pastors come to the Oval Officer to pray with him, for his family and for the country.

He also described his own religious transformation in deeply personal language Thursday, from growing up in a non-religious home to finding Christ later in his life. He recalled a visit a few years ago with the evangelist Rev. Billy Graham, which ended with the president feeling compelled to pray for the aging Graham.

Obama said when he found himself at that moment not knowing what to say, the Holy Spirit interceded.

"I have fallen on my knees with great regularity since that moment, asking God for guidance not just in my personal life and my Christian walk, but in the life of this nation and in the values that hold us together and keep us strong," he said.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #804
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:17 PM   #805
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That doesn't make any sense and you know it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:59 PM   #806
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Talk about concern trolling.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:11 PM   #807
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Actually it's quite the issue outside of secular group-think bubbles. The White House, for one, greatly underestimated the backlash to this edict.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:13 PM   #808
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Originally Posted by INDY500
Actually it's quite the issue outside of liberal group-think bubbles. The White House, for one, greatly underestimated the backlash to this edict.
You mean inside far right bubbles.

Which fully Catholic funded centers will this effect?
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:19 PM   #809
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Actually it's quite the issue outside of liberal group-think bubbles. The White House, for one, greatly underestimated the backlash to this edict.
I hope you keep running on this "backlash". It's a great, winning issue for the GOP. The louder, the better.

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Old 02-08-2012, 07:12 PM   #810
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Actually it's quite the issue outside of secular group-think bubbles. The White House, for one, greatly underestimated the backlash to this edict.


backlash from the 98% of Catholics who use birth control?

as the chart shows, it's not a "religious" issue at all, it's an identity issue for white evangelical protestants.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:26 PM   #811
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I hope you keep running on this "backlash". It's a great, winning issue for the GOP. The louder, the better.

Odd how in one thread we're told that not only should public opinion polls be discounted, but actual "put it to the vote of the people" democratic ballot initiatives should be overturned. While in this thread polls are used to support an autocratic mandate.

Even odder, while I can't find a "right" to marriage or free women's health care in the Constitution... I can find the "right" to the free exercise of religion.
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:29 PM   #812
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Odd how in one thread we're told that not only should public opinion polls be discounted, but actual "put it to the vote of the people" democratic ballot initiatives should be overturned. While in this thread polls are used to support an autocratic mandate.

i think you may want to rethink this line of thought.


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Even odder, while I can't find a "right" to marriage or free women's health care in the Constitution... I can find the "right" to the free exercise of religion.

does it say you can use your religion to discriminate against other people?
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:49 PM   #813
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While in this thread polls are used to support an autocratic mandate.
Who is saying that?

What I am suggesting is that you have an issue that you can feel free to run on. It's a loser issue for you, and the people would vote to that effect. Nevermind that it's a loser issue in the court of public opinion, it is also a total waste of time in an election when the US is faced with significant economic and other problems.

If you want to run on gay marriage - go ahead. The GOP has done that in the past and was successful. Did I find it repugnant? Sure, but it was their prerogative. You want to run on it again? Do it. I think you'd find the results would be a tad different.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:23 PM   #814
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beginning to wonder if this isn't yet another trap of self-destruction set by the Obama administration to make the GOP look like a party of anti-woman religious fanatics. look at how far the GOP wants to go -- "we think anyone should be able to deny women contraception whenever they want!"


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Legislation introduced by Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) to reverse the Obama administration’s birth control rule would effectively permit any employer to deny contraception coverage in their employee health plans, critics note.

“Any employer could deny birth control coverage under Rubio’s bill and all the employer would have to do is say it’s for a religious reason,” said Jessica Arons, Director of the Women’s Health and Rights Program at the liberal Center for American Progress. “There is no test to prove eligibility. It’s a loophole you could drive a truck through.”

The Rubio bill, The Religious Freedom Restoration Act, comes in response to a Catholic firestorm over the fact that the administration’s exemption on its birth control rule does not include religious hospitals and universities along with churches. But this bill appears to go far beyond that, permitting any employer to claim the religious exemption without a criteria.

Rubio Bill Lets ANY Employer Deny Birth Control Coverage | TPMDC

i mean, honestly. this is contraception.

it also shows what is, indeed, the slippery slope of "my faith made me do it" arguments.
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Old 02-09-2012, 03:31 PM   #815
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But this bill appears to go far beyond that, permitting any employer to claim the religious exemption without a criteria.
This was actually my thought when I first read the Catholic Church's arguments against the decision--well, what's so special about colleges and hospitals? Why not any old business run by a religious person, why not any old religious conviction? Like my right to not consider black people for employment because my church objects to race mixing, for example. Or to bar employees in an interracial marriage from claiming spousal benefits. Jehovah's Witnesses reject blood transfusions, when they own businesses can they opt out of covering those?
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Old 02-09-2012, 04:26 PM   #816
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Even odder, while I can't find a "right" to marriage or free women's health care in the Constitution... I can find the "right" to the free exercise of religion.
But how does mandating that an health insurance policy includes reimbursing contraceptives for women infringe on someone's right to freely exercise his/her religion? Someone can still proclaim he/she belongs to a certain religion, worship the deity of choice, etc. Those rights are not being infringed.
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:18 PM   #817
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if i cannot express my religion through hatred and judgment, then what is the point?
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Old 02-09-2012, 06:32 PM   #818
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But how does mandating that an health insurance policy includes reimbursing contraceptives for women infringe on someone's right to freely exercise his/her religion? Someone can still proclaim he/she belongs to a certain religion, worship the deity of choice, etc. Those rights are not being infringed.
Exactly.

Fine, people. You want to try and stop selling contraception? Then I don't want to hear any complaining of any sort from you when people find themselves with children they can't afford to take care of. In fact, I hope you'll be picking up where the parents left off, then, and pitching in to help care for these children. If you're as Christian as you claim, that shouldn't be a problem at all, right?
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:36 PM   #819
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backlash from the 98% of Catholics who use birth control?
98% !! So where's the issue with "access" that make these mandates so frickin important? Seems like contraception is widely available to those... oh yeah, Obamacare never was about health care. It's about the top-down controlling of health care decisions.


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as the chart shows, it's not a "religious" issue at all, it's an identity issue for white evangelical protestants.
Evangelical? You might want to rethink THAT. I personally have no problem with contraceptives. It's a large part of my practice. Including Plan B. But I posted on this forum the day this came to my attention (Jan 21st in Mandatory Health Care Thread). It was so long after that before this became a national issue I was beginning to worry I had overreacted.

I hadn't. It took awhile to get out because, to the MSM, it was a non-story.
Now it's news. Now people are reacting.

This is an issue of government overstep and First Amendment religious freedom. But if you need to think of this as "anti-woman religious fanatics" gettin' ginned up by Fox News and Karl Rove... you go right ahead.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:51 PM   #820
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Dear Lord.
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