Obama General Discussion II - Page 26 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-18-2010, 11:09 AM   #501
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 09:54 AM
major victory for Obama, and especially for his liberal base -- DADT will be repealed.

furthermore, and while Lieberman and Collins deserve much credit, Obama was right and his critics (especially on the Left) were wrong on the strategy for this issue. passing a law to repeal DADT was the best possible outcome because an Executive Order would not have been nearly as credible and letting the courts decide this issue would have given the GOP ammo to use for years about "activist judges" and to whip up more and more right wing paranoia.

while a nail-biter, this is precisely what needed to be done. and it proves, again, that Obama plays chess while everyone else plays checkers. sure, he loses in the short term sometimes, especially in the face of a GOP right wing who are the political equivalent of suicide bombers, but in the end, this will be a signature achievement for Obama's base, and everyone in the military will wake up and find that virtually NOTHING is different, and it will just be another Tuesday morning. though the gay servicemembers will have slept that much more soundly the night before. all this does is remove the knife from their backs. many will choose to be closeted, many will put a picture of their partner on their desk, some will finally be able to write letters to their partners from Afghanistan, and that's about all that will change.

now ... on to DOMA ...
__________________

Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-18-2010, 12:06 PM   #502
The Fly
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 131
Local Time: 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
especially in the face of a GOP right wing who are the political equivalent of suicide bombers, ...
Are you serious? Whats DOMA?
__________________

adam4bono is offline  
Old 12-18-2010, 12:26 PM   #503
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam4bono View Post
Are you serious? Whats DOMA?


the nihilism of the GOP these past 2 years and their use of the filibuster at every conceivable opportunity and their absolute refusal to work with the administration on anything to the detriment of the country has been clear to see. the goal of the GOP is not to make the country a better place but to make Obama a 1-term president, as McConnell stated in the National Journal in November. that's nihilism.


the Defense Of Marriage Act.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 09:54 AM   #504
The Fly
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 131
Local Time: 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
the nihilism of the GOP these past 2 years and their use of the filibuster at every conceivable opportunity and their absolute refusal to work with the administration on anything to the detriment of the country has been clear to see. the goal of the GOP is not to make the country a better place but to make Obama a 1-term president, as McConnell stated in the National Journal in November. that's nihilism.


the Defense Of Marriage Act.
Well, The President has had strong majorities in both houses of congress, so its not like he has really needed the Republicans. In addition, many Republicans would say that they have opposed Obama's policies because enacting those policies would be to the detriment of the country. There are naturally going to be political or philosophical differences between members in both parties about what course of action to take. Obama's job was certainly made easier by the fact that he had some of the strongest majorities in the house and senate that had been seen in perhaps a generation.
adam4bono is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 03:56 PM   #505
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam4bono View Post
Well, The President has had strong majorities in both houses of congress, so its not like he has really needed the Republicans. In addition, many Republicans would say that they have opposed Obama's policies because enacting those policies would be to the detriment of the country. There are naturally going to be political or philosophical differences between members in both parties about what course of action to take. Obama's job was certainly made easier by the fact that he had some of the strongest majorities in the house and senate that had been seen in perhaps a generation.


yes, because, historically, the minority party in the Senate has always used the filibuster in the way that it has the past 2 years.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 04:05 PM   #506
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 05:54 AM
wondering if START can get the 67 votes it needs.

or is one more Obama win not tolerable?
deep is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 05:31 PM   #507
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 05:54 AM
Scott Brown to support New START treaty - Political Intelligence -

Brown is batting two for two

Now if we can get McCain to ramble on about elites in the Kremlim celebrating.....
deep is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 05:59 PM   #508
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 08:54 AM
McCain in self-destruct mode is quite a sight to behold.
Diemen is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 06:05 PM   #509
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 08:54 AM
Judging from McCain's temper, I get the feeling START might be DOA.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Opponents Taking Revenge On Russian Arms Treaty
Diemen is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 06:13 PM   #510
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 02:54 PM
"There'll be toasts over vodka and caviar in the Kremlin tonight, my friends..."

Lugar said today he thought they had the votes, but that securing them in time to ratify it this session might be a problem. Although, frankly it'd serve him right to be let down by his own party, after showing them his weakness by caving and voting no on DADT repeal. 2012 primary fears... Regardless, it'll be a terrible mistake if they fail to ratify it.

Quote:
Lieberman said that such a threat "takes us way back to an earlier day when people used to do things like that to stop civil rights laws from passing"
Damn...
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 09:42 PM   #511
Blue Crack Addict
 
Moonlit_Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: In a dimension known as the Twilight Zone...do de doo doo, do de doo doo...
Posts: 20,715
Local Time: 08:54 AM
So, Liberman and Brown are coming out swinging and being all smart and voting well, while McCain drifts deeper into a grumpy old man persona that feels the need to rail against everything.

*Checks outside to see if the world is starting to turn upside down*

Angela
Moonlit_Angel is offline  
Old 12-20-2010, 10:12 PM   #512
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
Damn...


i know, right? wow.

something's going on with Lieberman -- i know that his camp was worried that they'd be thrown under the bus it somehow it boiled down to DADT vs. START, but now that they've got one, perhaps he's doing what he can for Obama on the other. and smart move by Obama to bring Joe back into the fold rather than isolate him after he campaigned for Grandpa Walnuts in 2008.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:38 AM   #513
The Fly
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 131
Local Time: 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
yes, because, historically, the minority party in the Senate has always used the filibuster in the way that it has the past 2 years.
Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster. Most other presidents would have pushed by easily with those ratio's in congress.
adam4bono is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 11:03 AM   #514
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam4bono View Post
Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster. Most other presidents would have pushed by easily with those ratio's in congress.

this is very lazy.

most other presidents haven't faced an opposition that has marched in such lock-step, most other presidents haven't faced such a nakedly partisan environment where the opposition's stated goal has been to resist the president regardless of whether or not it's good for the country.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 11:14 AM   #515
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam4bono View Post
Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster. Most other presidents would have pushed by easily with those ratio's in congress.
It only takes one senator to filibuster, but (I believe) it takes 60 or 61 senate votes to end the filibuster.

This rule is established with the swearing-in and adopting of procedures at the beginning of each term of the senate. So, many are calling for a change in the rule.

And, I agree. The filibuster has been abused.
__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:02 PM   #516
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Popmartijn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 32,841
Local Time: 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
And, I agree. The filibuster has been abused.
Say what?
Quote:
The Republicans have been using the filibuster to block even routine motions to begin debate, which has angered many Democratic senators. In the current (111th) Senate, there have been over 100 filibusters, compared to 27 filibusters in the period 1919 to 1960, which comes up to fewer than 1 per year, so the rate for this Senate is 100x the average for the first half of the 20th century. In the entire 19th century there were about 20 filibusters, roughly one every five years. In other words, the filibuster has historically been used only for very, very major battles, of which the debates over slavery, secession, and reconstruction weren't even important enough.
(from Electoral-vote.com: Election news )
Popmartijn is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:35 PM   #517
has a
 
kramwest1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Not a toliet wall
Posts: 6,939
Local Time: 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
It only takes one senator to filibuster, but (I believe) it takes 60 or 61 senate votes to end the filibuster.

This rule is established with the swearing-in and adopting of procedures at the beginning of each term of the senate. So, many are calling for a change in the rule.

And, I agree. The filibuster has been abused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popmartijn View Post
Say what?


I should have been more clear: I agree the rule should be changed. It's not w/o controversy; there are a lot of Democrats weary of changing the rule because they feel it will protect them if/when they are the minority in the senate.


There is no doubt, the filibuster has been abused.
__________________
Bread & Circuses
kramwest1 is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 12:43 PM   #518
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramwest1 View Post
There is no doubt, the filibuster has been abused.

i blame Obama. if he didn't try to do things against the Constitution like make health care affordable or try and prevent nuclear annihilation or give straights the right to get ogled by gays in military showers or thank the first responders to 9-11 by taking care of their health then the GOP wouldn't be forced to filibuster like they have.



also, rumors that Mike Rogers is going to out Lindsey Graham for being such a dick about DADT.

Irvine511 is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 01:13 PM   #519
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam4bono View Post
Well, they barely had even enough people to have a filibuster.
WTF
BVS is offline  
Old 12-21-2010, 01:24 PM   #520
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,395
Local Time: 09:54 AM
filibustering only works if all 40 filibuster at exactly the same time!
__________________

Irvine511 is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×