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Old 12-09-2010, 08:45 AM   #441
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I wish it could be like the 50s or 60s, but my generation couldn't give a shit about the common good, we have high self-esteem and need to keep working two or three jobs to make sure there is a flatscreen in every home and an iPod in every jeans pocket.

I wish there weren't even a bit of truth to that, but there is.
I think this is a problem that can be argued for nearly any generation, sadly. But there are average, everyday people where I live who are conservative and do just what you mentioned there, and yet they still get out and do something. For some reason, conservatives across the board still mobilize more than liberals across the board nowadays. And I find that strange. Is it that they know how to be "taken more seriously" than liberals do, no matter how crazy their actual positions? Is it their lifestyles that allow them the time? Is it that they have more passion about their beliefs, even? What?

U2isthebest and Sean, excellent posts from both of you. As I said, my biggest problem was the use of the tax cuts and unemployment benefits being meshed together to force a political game of sorts. And I'm certainly not thrilled at the idea of the millionaires getting yet another tax cut ('cause lord knows if they lost even a fraction of their wealth life would be so over, right?). But I still believe sometimes Obama has a weird method to some of his strategies, that he's a bit ahead of his opposition and does things that look like he's going along with them publicly, only to make the Republicans look bad and hypocritical later on. As stated, they'll cheer the tax cuts now, but any complaints they make about the very same thing later on will be harder to follow, because they were cheering it originally.

The problem isn't the way Obama does things. It's that he doesn't call out the Republicans more on their hypocrisy when the time comes for it, and after all is said and done, he needs to better show just how his decisions will positively affect the everyday Americans in the end. He needs to stress that stuff to the public more often, to the point where it finally sinks into their heads and they start to remember that when they go to the polls. He needs to take a page from the Republican playbook on that aspect of it all. Only, without the mean-spirited attacks that come with it.

Angela
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:37 AM   #442
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Ok, count Luke Scott of MLB's Baltimore Orioles as one of the shitbags who doesn't believe that the President was born in the United States. Luke shared this and other non baseball thoughts with a Yahoo Sports reporter during MLB's Winter Meetings in Orlando.


The Baltimore Oriole organization does not share Luke's thoughts and were forced to make a statement saying so.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:41 AM   #443
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Good thing we don't look to our baseball players for their intelligence...
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:58 AM   #444
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Good thing we don't look to our baseball players for their intelligence...


It is a little ironic that the NFL seems to breed more politicians than other pro sports (Heath Shuler, Jack Kemp, Steve Largent, etc.), given the tendency toward hits on the head.



wait a second, maybe that helps them be politicians?
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:02 AM   #445
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Good thing we don't look to our baseball players for their intelligence...

Yes, agreed.
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Old 12-09-2010, 11:46 AM   #446
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Playing for the Orioles probably messes with your head in a major way.

He looks like a freaking model but I don't know what's going on upstairs. He didn't just talk about the citizenship, if you read the whole interview it's even worse.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:38 PM   #447
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Playing for the Orioles probably messes with your head in a major way.

He looks like a freaking model but I don't know what's going on upstairs. He didn't just talk about the citizenship, if you read the whole interview it's even worse.

Oh yeah, I read the rest of the interview. He cites Ted Nugent as an influence. 'Nuff said.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:12 PM   #448
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It is a little ironic that the NFL seems to breed more politicians than other pro sports (Heath Shuler, Jack Kemp, Steve Largent, etc.), given the tendency toward hits on the head.



wait a second, maybe that helps them be politicians?
Sounds as good a theory as any.

I was thinking the same thing, BVS. No, not every sports figure subscribes to the "dumb jock" stereotype, certainly not, but in modern sports, it does seem there's quite a few out there who aren't too bright, to put it nicely.

Angela
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:18 PM   #449
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House Democratic Caucus rejected Obama's deal.

House Democrats defy Obama on tax deal - CNN.com

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House Democrats voted Thursday against considering the tax package that President Obama negotiated with Republicans, raising questions over the president's influence in his own party.
The vote by the House Democratic caucus was a defiant rejection of both the agreement on tax and benefit measures, as well as what many Democrats in the chamber perceived as being marginalized in the talks by the White House.
"This message today is very simple. That in the form that it was negotiated, it is not acceptable to the House Democratic caucus," said Rep. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, who represented House Democrats in the negotiations. "It's as simple as that."
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:39 PM   #450
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House Democratic Caucus rejected Obama's deal.

House Democrats defy Obama on tax deal - CNN.com
He's a smart guy, you have to believe that Obama knew this would be the reaction. So why did he do it?
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:41 PM   #451
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Good question. Maybe to see how much of a backbone they had, see what it would finally take for them to fight back or something?

That news actually quite pleasantly surprises me. I'm not holding my breath for miracles here, but hey, it's an interesting turn of events nonetheless. Be curious to see what happens next.

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Old 12-09-2010, 03:59 PM   #452
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I don't think Obama should have caved without a fight. These tax cuts for the rich are a huge deal and have huge implications for the economy and for the federal budget. I understand that he wanted make sure the middle class's tax cuts didn't go up and that he wanted to extend unemployment benefits, but sometimes there are things that are important enough long-term that maybe you take the hit short-term. I'm honestly curious, if you polled everyone in the country who voted for Obama in 2008, with the question below, what the outcome would be:

"Would you be willing to have your own personal taxes go up short-term if it means that the economy will be strengthened and the federal budget fixed long-term?"

The President says he'll fight for it in two years, but how many of us honestly believe there's going to be any fight for tax increases during a Presidential election? I think there are plenty of people who are skeptical about that.

No, I think the President should have fought. There's a scene that closes an episode of the West Wing in which President Bartlett and the congressional Republican leadership(it was a Republican Congress) were negotiating a budget deal, and if no agreement was reached, the government would shut down that very night at midnight. The Speaker Of The House had been pushing and pushing for more and more spending cuts, and the President was almost going to say yes anyway to avoid the government being shut down. But at the last second, the Speaker increased the spending cuts in the deal even more, and it was the straw that broke the camel's back for the President. He just said "No." The Speaker warned him that he wasn't bluffing and that "You will be held responsible for shutting down the federal government."

In response to this, the President stood up, looked the Speaker dead in the eye, and said, "Then shut it down." And then he walked out of the room.

When they're in that meeting, and the GOP says that if the tax cuts for the rich expire, all of the tax cuts expire, perhaps the President should've stood up, looked Boehner and McConnell and whoever else dead in the eye, and said, "Then let them expire."

If the story is spun correctly, and the GOP is made to look like they're holding the middle class hostage(which is what the spin is now anyway), like it's their fault everyone's taxes are going up because of their unwillingness to budge on the tax cuts for the rich, how long do you think the GOP lets that go on?

What's the worst-case scenario? That they agree on the same "compromise" deal they've agreed on now? At least the President would have tried in that scenario, and the possibility would be open for something much better.

I hope the House holds steady and is for real on this.
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:59 PM   #453
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I don't think Obama should have caved without a fight. These tax cuts for the rich are a huge deal and have huge implications for the economy and for the federal budget.
Implications on the federal budget? Yes

On the economy? Probably not.

Your analogy doesn't work(besides being fictional) because Bartlett had the political clout to do so at that time, Obama doesn't. If this was a year and a half ago, sure, he could do it without hesitation. But he doesn't have that anymore...

This was Obama's best move at this point.

One thing that has become glaringly obvious this week to me... people don't seem to like a pragmatist as a president.
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:51 PM   #454
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Implications on the federal budget? Yes

On the economy? Probably not.

Your analogy doesn't work(besides being fictional) because Bartlett had the political clout to do so at that time, Obama doesn't. If this was a year and a half ago, sure, he could do it without hesitation. But he doesn't have that anymore...

This was Obama's best move at this point.

One thing that has become glaringly obvious this week to me... people don't seem to like a pragmatist as a president.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:18 PM   #455
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This was Obama's best move at this point.
I disagree.

If anyone here genuinely believes that the Republicans would have filibustered extending EI or middle class tax cuts, I'd like to hear it. Hell, Boehner already said that he would have voted for the tax cuts even if the Bush tax cuts were not extended; meaning he would have voted for a purely under $250K tax cut.

Pragmatism isn't to be celebrated as a matter of fact and people who disagree with the structure of this Bill should not be labeled anti-pragmatic either. Simplistic thinking.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:49 PM   #456
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Hell, Boehner already said that he would have voted for the tax cuts even if the Bush tax cuts were not extended; meaning he would have voted for a purely under $250K tax cut.
That's not what I heard. Boehner and a few others were claiming they were going to hold to their tea bag "principles" and it was "all or nothing".
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:52 PM   #457
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House’s Boehner Says He Would Vote for Middle-Class Tax Cuts - BusinessWeek
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:56 PM   #458
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Well something must have happened between Sept 13th and now...
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:02 PM   #459
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Well something must have happened between Sept 13th and now...
Cute.

Incumbent Congressmen stay until end of December.

Do you believe that the GOP would have filibustered middle tax cuts and extension of EI?
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:17 PM   #460
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So do you think it was as simple as Obama could have, but caved in?
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