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Old 09-14-2010, 02:52 PM   #241
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I have to say I am surprised at the collapse of support for Obama.

and in all likelihood, the big hit the Dems will take in the Nov elections

Even at two years out, I am concerned he will not get reelected.

And most of this I will not lay at his feet, but more at how fickle the American electorate are. In particular, the so-called independent voters and youth that were there in Nov 2008. But have quickly fallen away.
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:00 PM   #242
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I have to say I am surprised at the collapse of support for Obama.

and in all likelihood, the big hit the Dems will take in the Nov elections

Even at two years out, I am concerned he will not get reelected.

And most of this I will not lay at his feet, but more at how fickle the American electorate are. In particular, the so-called independent voters and youth that were there in Nov 2008. But have quickly fallen away.
A lot can happen in two years so I'm not ready to say he won't get reelected, but the rest of this post I strongly agree with...
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:57 PM   #243
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I didn't say he won't
I said I was concerned

I think the economy will slowly improve (it always does), unemployment will go from just under 10% to around the 8.1-8.3 range.

GOP will claim because of their 2010 pick ups, things are a little better.
We will have had 2 years of mostly gridlock.

A 'safe' GOP nom like a Romney or Pawlenty , will be able to beat Obama.
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:54 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
I have to say I am surprised at the collapse of support for Obama.

and in all likelihood, the big hit the Dems will take in the Nov elections

Even at two years out, I am concerned he will not get reelected.

And most of this I will not lay at his feet, but more at how fickle the American electorate are. In particular, the so-called independent voters and youth that were there in Nov 2008. But have quickly fallen away.
I am an independent who supported McCain in 2008 and Bush before that. You are correct about how quickly the support for Obama has faded...of course...it's the economy (stupid).

Honestly i think Hillary should have won the nomination and then the election. But thats all water under the bridge at this point. What bothers me the most now is the deep dark underbelly of the fanatical right that has been showing its face since Obama was elected.

Another disturbing trend, almost everything bad i have ever heard about the GOP has come to light with this new "movement". Greed, hate mongering, bigotry, homophobia, racism, etc...it's all coming to pass. The more i see of this the more i realize, with these folks money and power is far more important than human life.

I fear home grown terrorism almost as much as i fear something abroad. I've heard enough idle chatter among certain wealthy older WASP types to make me think a "revolution" of some sorts is coming. Not just at the ballot box in november, mind you. These so called "patriots" are clearly hoarding supplies, ammunition, whatever they can get their hands on. They are either crazy or they are propping up the next McVeigh.

I supported Bush and the so-called "compassionate conservatives" for 8 years, but this new breed...? What is going on now is just so perverse, for someone like me it is the unthinkable. Even i have my limits to what i can take. These Tea Party assholes can go fuck themselves. I will be voting against them from here on out. And they better not tread on me either.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:05 PM   #245
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CNN Political Ticker: Former GOP leader apologizes to Obama, calls Republicans ‘racist’ � -

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Old 09-14-2010, 10:37 PM   #246
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How many opposed his speech this year?

I guess it's convenient to apologize a year later when under indictment.

Although he is correct about his party.

On a similiar note I'm amused by how the hypocrisy of rants like that of Greer's last year go completely unoticed by the party voters.

The fact that Republican presidents did the same went completely unnoticed by so many. Same with the Memorial Day controversy, etc...

Yesterday Hannity was reading a report on air trying to point out that Obama was attending yet another black tie event this week. This one was for College athletes, he literally read the article word for word and then got to the sentence "The event was first started by President George Bush..." so he quickly trailed off saying "blah blah blah". He obviously didn't read the article before air time. That part wasn't important, what was important is that the Obama's are partying too hard. Yet, even though he made a very obvious on air faux pas, it will go unnoticed by his audience.
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:35 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
And most of this I will not lay at his feet, but more at how fickle the American electorate are. In particular, the so-called independent voters and youth that were there in Nov 2008. But have quickly fallen away.
Indeed. They're fickle and confusing, and forget simple facts: that the economy needs to take time to heal and that problems don't get solved overnight and that they need to help out. Once again, Obama did say he wanted us all to work TOGETHER. It's amazing how quickly everyone forgot that, or did they not even hear it at all?

I know nobody wants to hear that solving problems takes time when they've got economic woes. My family's going through that sort of thing right now, too. I get the frustration. Believe me, I do. But I also know that it took a long time for us to get here, it's going to take a long time to get us out, and we'll just have to get by as best we can in the meantime. And I'm not going to yell at the government and tell them to butt out only to get pissed at them because they aren't doing anything.

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What bothers me the most now is the deep dark underbelly of the fanatical right that has been showing its face since Obama was elected.

Another disturbing trend, almost everything bad i have ever heard about the GOP has come to light with this new "movement". Greed, hate mongering, bigotry, homophobia, racism, etc...it's all coming to pass. The more i see of this the more i realize, with these folks money and power is far more important than human life.

I fear home grown terrorism almost as much as i fear something abroad. I've heard enough idle chatter among certain wealthy older WASP types to make me think a "revolution" of some sorts is coming. Not just at the ballot box in november, mind you. These so called "patriots" are clearly hoarding supplies, ammunition, whatever they can get their hands on. They are either crazy or they are propping up the next McVeigh.

I supported Bush and the so-called "compassionate conservatives" for 8 years, but this new breed...? What is going on now is just so perverse, for someone like me it is the unthinkable. Even i have my limits to what i can take. These Tea Party assholes can go fuck themselves. I will be voting against them from here on out. And they better not tread on me either.
*Massive applause for this bit* Perfectly said. Any conservative worth their salt should be deeply embarrassed to have this ilk associated with their viewpoint. If anyone out there honest to God thinks the current Republican Party will fix the problems Obama's having difficulty fixing, they are dreaming or quite frankly delusional or something. The bottom line is that these problems were going to be difficult to solve no matter which party was in office, neither one has all the answers to take care of everything more quickly than the other side. Add in the Republican Party's toxic elements you illustrated, and I sincerely do not want to see them taking back the majority anytime soon in any faction of the government. Obama's not perfect, no, neither are the Democrats. They have a lot of work they need to do, too, they have many problems with their setup, no question. But the bigotry and fearmongering from the Republicans is just...beyond terrifying. And disgusting. And not worth supporting.

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Old 09-15-2010, 09:41 PM   #248
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Yesterday Hannity was reading a report on air trying to point out that Obama was attending yet another black tie event this week. This one was for College athletes, he literally read the article word for word and then got to the sentence "The event was first started by President George Bush..." so he quickly trailed off saying "blah blah blah". He obviously didn't read the article before air time. That part wasn't important, what was important is that the Obama's are partying too hard. Yet, even though he made a very obvious on air faux pas, it will go unnoticed by his audience.
It was the parade of NCAA champions, sort of like how champions of major sports meet with the president. My university had two championship teams that made the trek to the White House, and the event got rave reviews.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:18 AM   #249
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I am an independent who supported McCain in 2008 and Bush before that. You are correct about how quickly the support for Obama has faded...of course...it's the economy (stupid).

Honestly i think Hillary should have won the nomination and then the election. But thats all water under the bridge at this point. What bothers me the most now is the deep dark underbelly of the fanatical right that has been showing its face since Obama was elected.

Another disturbing trend, almost everything bad i have ever heard about the GOP has come to light with this new "movement". Greed, hate mongering, bigotry, homophobia, racism, etc...it's all coming to pass. The more i see of this the more i realize, with these folks money and power is far more important than human life.

I fear home grown terrorism almost as much as i fear something abroad. I've heard enough idle chatter among certain wealthy older WASP types to make me think a "revolution" of some sorts is coming. Not just at the ballot box in november, mind you. These so called "patriots" are clearly hoarding supplies, ammunition, whatever they can get their hands on. They are either crazy or they are propping up the next McVeigh.

I supported Bush and the so-called "compassionate conservatives" for 8 years, but this new breed...? What is going on now is just so perverse, for someone like me it is the unthinkable. Even i have my limits to what i can take. These Tea Party assholes can go fuck themselves. I will be voting against them from here on out. And they better not tread on me either.


I like this post
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:15 PM   #250
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I don't want to be an echo here, but I agree, Mrs. Garrison's post is excellent!
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:38 PM   #251
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I am an independent who supported McCain in 2008 and Bush before that. You are correct about how quickly the support for Obama has faded...of course...it's the economy (stupid).

Honestly i think Hillary should have won the nomination and then the election. But thats all water under the bridge at this point. What bothers me the most now is the deep dark underbelly of the fanatical right that has been showing its face since Obama was elected.

Another disturbing trend, almost everything bad i have ever heard about the GOP has come to light with this new "movement". Greed, hate mongering, bigotry, homophobia, racism, etc...it's all coming to pass. The more i see of this the more i realize, with these folks money and power is far more important than human life.

I fear home grown terrorism almost as much as i fear something abroad. I've heard enough idle chatter among certain wealthy older WASP types to make me think a "revolution" of some sorts is coming. Not just at the ballot box in november, mind you. These so called "patriots" are clearly hoarding supplies, ammunition, whatever they can get their hands on. They are either crazy or they are propping up the next McVeigh.

I supported Bush and the so-called "compassionate conservatives" for 8 years, but this new breed...? What is going on now is just so perverse, for someone like me it is the unthinkable. Even i have my limits to what i can take. These Tea Party assholes can go fuck themselves. I will be voting against them from here on out. And they better not tread on me either.


Here's hoping there's a lot more conservatives out there like you! Thanks for sharing.

To be honest, I'm really struggling with the midterms coming up here in Ohio. In the past I would never have considered voting a straight Democratic ticket. I would consider each candidate on their individual merits. But this year with the Republican party seemingly being hijacked by these wild-eyed hard-right fanatics I'm finding I'm uncomfortable with the GOP having any sort of advantage at either state or national level.

Thankfully I don't live in South Carolina. Sorry, but as much as I dislike the Republicans right now I could not bring myself to vote for that rube that snagged the Democratic nomination for Senate there.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:56 PM   #252
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Here's hoping there's a lot more conservatives out there like you! Thanks for sharing.

To be honest, I'm really struggling with the midterms coming up here in Ohio. In the past I would never have considered voting a straight Democratic ticket. I would consider each candidate on their individual merits. But this year with the Republican party seemingly being hijacked by these wild-eyed hard-right fanatics I'm finding I'm uncomfortable with the GOP having any sort of advantage at either state or national level.

Thankfully I don't live in South Carolina. Sorry, but as much as I dislike the Republicans right now I could not bring myself to vote for that rube that snagged the Democratic nomination for Senate there.
Thank you (and of course Pearl, Mrs S. , & M Angel too). Thing is, im not really a conservative. I realize in 2002 most of you probably thought i was, but thats not exactly the case. Im an Independent who has leaned conservative because of world events and the terror attacks. Being ex military i support the troops in everything they do, which meant i had to more or less support the war as well.

Like you i have even given serious thought to voting "straight democrat" in the mid terms just as a way to show this fanatical fringe what i think. I really can't stand these idiots, honestly they've lost me and they are every bit as bad (if not worse) than the Democratic party was from 2000 - 2006. It's pretty sad when the republicans can actually make Nancy Pelosi look sane and reasonable or even smart. But these dumbshits have somehow managed to do it. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

As for 2012 obviously thats a long way away. Obama hasn't exactly impressed me and Joe Biden is an idiot. Why Hillary isn't the VP is beyond me. But im telling you right now if the race in 2012 were held today and it was between Obama and the former half term Governor of Alaska, i would definitely vote Obama.
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Old 09-17-2010, 05:15 PM   #253
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I agree with what was stated above, that the American public is feeble and impatient.

But it's not exactly right to just blame Obama for what's been going on(or not going on).

We live in a plutocracy, do we not? Each and every Senator and Congressperson took money from someone to pay for their campaigns; health insurance companies, banks, oil companies, just to name a few obvious ones. And each and every one of those someones will come back, when it suits them, to collect. And that's just the base form of legalized bribery that goes one between corporate America and congress; who knows what other corrupt deals are being struck in backrooms somewhere. And so that very powerful body, between having their strings pulled from above and engaging in political posturing, is in practice, an inefficient and, at least seemingly, ineffective body. And it is this way, no matter who the President is.

It astonishes me in two ways:

1. That there are consistently so many people who are perfectly willing to make careers being somebody's puppet, voting the way they're told, making some money, and not making any real difference nor doing anything that really matters.

2. That it's LEGAL! That it is within the law for Senators/Congresspeople or potential Senators/Congresspeople to take money from corporations or the people atop said corporations! It is indeed astonishing that is legal and accepted, and that nobody cares, and that so many don't even get that this is the way government works.

The reason, of course, that it's legal, is because the people who have the power to legislate differently regarding campaign finance are the same people who benefit from things being the way they are. The power to make/change campaign finance laws should be taken away from congress and given to another, independent, objective body - create one if no acceptable such body exists.

Do you guys think things will change, that corporate America will ever have less power over government than they do now? I'm seriously asking.

Anyway...my initial point was that, regarding how the economy, among other things, is handled, it is wrong to give the President all the credit or all the blame, because congress and their corporate masters share much of the responsibility.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:18 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
I am an independent who supported McCain in 2008 and Bush before that. You are correct about how quickly the support for Obama has faded...of course...it's the economy (stupid).

Honestly i think Hillary should have won the nomination and then the election. But thats all water under the bridge at this point. What bothers me the most now is the deep dark underbelly of the fanatical right that has been showing its face since Obama was elected.

Another disturbing trend, almost everything bad i have ever heard about the GOP has come to light with this new "movement". Greed, hate mongering, bigotry, homophobia, racism, etc...it's all coming to pass. The more i see of this the more i realize, with these folks money and power is far more important than human life.

I fear home grown terrorism almost as much as i fear something abroad. I've heard enough idle chatter among certain wealthy older WASP types to make me think a "revolution" of some sorts is coming. Not just at the ballot box in november, mind you. These so called "patriots" are clearly hoarding supplies, ammunition, whatever they can get their hands on. They are either crazy or they are propping up the next McVeigh.

I supported Bush and the so-called "compassionate conservatives" for 8 years, but this new breed...? What is going on now is just so perverse, for someone like me it is the unthinkable. Even i have my limits to what i can take. These Tea Party assholes can go fuck themselves. I will be voting against them from here on out. And they better not tread on me either.
Partially in the interests of playing devil's advocate - as it's boring for everyone to agree with each other - but also because I can understand why people are disappointed with Obama, how much of the Tea Party movement do you think is driven by Obama kow-towing to Wall St by continuing with the banking bailouts, and failing to achieve any real improvement in the economy (as far as I can gather, and of course I don't live in the US)?

I guess where I'm coming from is I don't think it's all about racism, homophobia, etc.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:38 PM   #255
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Partially in the interests of playing devil's advocate - as it's boring for everyone to agree with each other - but also because I can understand why people are disappointed with Obama, how much of the Tea Party movement do you think is driven by Obama kow-towing to Wall St by continuing with the banking bailouts, and failing to achieve any real improvement in the economy (as far as I can gather, and of course I don't live in the US)?

I guess where I'm coming from is I don't think it's all about racism, homophobia, etc.
I think the opposition to the banking bailouts is an response rooted in emotional not rational sense. It's not very emotionally satisfying to bail out the banks, but I have not seen a convincing argument that the economy would have been better off without it or even that it wouldn not have been much worse.

Likewise blaming the sitting president for economic woes is easy, but I don't personally believe the president has that much real impact on the state of the economy. They take credit when things are good and are blamed when things aren't but neither is really accurate in my opinion.

My issue with the oppositon to Obama is that it is very simplistic and emotional rather than logical and rational.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:51 PM   #256
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Excellent and eloquent as always
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Old 09-18-2010, 02:23 AM   #257
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Thank you (and of course Pearl, Mrs S. , & M Angel too). Thing is, im not really a conservative. I realize in 2002 most of you probably thought i was, but thats not exactly the case. Im an Independent who has leaned conservative because of world events and the terror attacks. Being ex military i support the troops in everything they do, which meant i had to more or less support the war as well.
Totally understood . I'd just joined the site in 2002, so I don't know if I'm all that familiar with your political stylings from back then, but of course, you're right, simply agreeing with a particular policy or a person doesn't automatically tie you to that party's mindset as a whole.

And you're welcome, too.

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Like you i have even given serious thought to voting "straight democrat" in the mid terms just as a way to show this fanatical fringe what i think. I really can't stand these idiots, honestly they've lost me and they are every bit as bad (if not worse) than the Democratic party was from 2000 - 2006. It's pretty sad when the republicans can actually make Nancy Pelosi look sane and reasonable or even smart. But these dumbshits have somehow managed to do it. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on.

As for 2012 obviously thats a long way away. Obama hasn't exactly impressed me and Joe Biden is an idiot. Why Hillary isn't the VP is beyond me. But im telling you right now if the race in 2012 were held today and it was between Obama and the former half term Governor of Alaska, i would definitely vote Obama.
Very well put . Ditto to namkcuR's post as well.

I honestly don't know how I feel about the bailout stuff. Of course, I'm insanely pissed off when I hear about CEOs continuing to get bonuses and live their luxury lifestyles instead of being fired or sent to jail for any wrongdoings any of them may have committed in relation to this whole mess. No argument with the Tea Party folks on that aspect of it all, that is a valid complaint worth bringing up. But aside from that issue, I really don't know where to stand. I think, for one thing, it's too soon to tell just how well they'll work out, I imagine the effects of them will take some time to unfold. And for another, since both Bush and Obama supported them, all you wind up getting is typical partisan crap-"Well, it was wrong when Bush did it, but it was okay when Obama did it", or vice versa, and nobody ever bothers to discuss the bailouts themselves, their good and bad points.

Like I've said before, the Tea Party people may have some legitimate concerns about our financial future, but of course, all we see on the news is the lunatic fringe with the racist signs and the Hitler comparisons and shouting that Obama's a socialist or a communist with nary an understanding of what either one of those words, those concepts mean. And that's not fair, because those that may have the kind of logical, rational critiques that Sean pointed out that he wants to hear from said crowd inevitably get drowned out.

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Old 09-19-2010, 08:19 AM   #258
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My issue with the oppositon to Obama is that it is very simplistic and emotional rather than logical and rational.
I have no issue with anyone who has logical and rational opposition to Obama and I have some of my own. I think you're supposed to or you're really not paying attention or doing your part.

For me it just gets all kinds of crazy when they take things he does and twist them into these paranoid wild theories and some people just buy into those without critical thinking. I was reading on a Nook yesterday about that book that's out by that David Limbaugh guy about how Obama's is the most destructive administration in our history and how all of these things he's doing are part of some sort of preexisting plan he had to purposefully mislead us and to carry out his master plan. Where is the evidence? It's all kinds of spaghetti being thrown against a wall and it does seem to be sticking.

I often wonder what it would be like now if Hillary Clinton had won and if these same people would be doing the same things to her even if she handled things completely differently. Is it really about Obama?
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:13 PM   #259
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I think if the Republicans had a strong 2012 candidate hidden away somewhere we would have spied them by now.

Who do they have? Jindal? Chuckles Huckabee? Fudge Packin' Mitt? And of course, you know how bad the Republicans are when Palin is seriously being floated in the media as a 2012 nominee.

As bad as the Democrats are currently during the midterms, the Tea Party nutjobs are a huge problem for the Republicans. You have Karl Rove calling out O'Donnell publically as the wrong direction, and the wingnut wing led by Palin calling him out.

There's enough popular ferver to throw the Dems out of the White House, and the ultimate cruel joke for the right is that there's no one to put it behind. The Republican party is at the mercy of two bimbos as of today, the RNC is a disaster, and unless they can get their house in order in 2011 they have no shot at even making the next election close.
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:11 PM   #260
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I think the difference is that in the Democratic party those divisions would persist, but while there's some momentary conflict among Republicans right now, they're going to consolidate sooner or later to have a more unified narrative. After O'Donnell got elected, Republican party members were saying she'd have to raise her own money. It took all of about 24 hours for them to go back on that.

And don't forget the remarkable ability of the Democrats to fuck up. Coons is only head of O'Donnell by 11 points according to the latest poll. When O'Donnell & Co inevitably start getting nasty against him, we'll see if he can weather the storm - even considering O'Donnell is gold mine of embarrassing statements and stances on the issues.
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