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Old 04-11-2020, 09:48 PM   #1
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US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

Enjoy the shitty title since nobody made a thread.
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Old 04-12-2020, 06:28 AM   #2
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Is the country open yet? A lot of people were talking about Easter, did you know that?
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Old 04-12-2020, 08:56 AM   #3
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Packed churches baby.
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Old 04-12-2020, 09:01 AM   #4
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At least GOD FEARING Ron DeSantis is allowing true Americans to come together and praise Jeeeeeezus. No thanks the jack-booted libtards!!!!
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Old 04-12-2020, 10:23 AM   #5
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So we let USPS die to squash vote by mail in November right ?

I’m sure White House will pick a 3rd party vendor that’s completely competent and trustworthy
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Old 04-12-2020, 11:05 AM   #6
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This is long, but with your time:



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Much of the left has entered a phase of despondency in the wake of the defeat of Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary. It’s easy to understand why. It’s not just that Sanders went from riding high after winning the first three states in the Democratic Party, to suffering dramatic defeats in South Carolina and Super Tuesday that doomed the campaign.

It’s also that this is the fourth consecutive defeat for Sanders-style revolutionary leftist politics in the Anglosphere: Sanders lost to Clinton in 2016; Sanders-style revolutionary candidates lost most of their Congressional races in 2018 while moderates were much more successful; Jeremy Corbyn’s approach to Labour politics was obliterated in Great Britain by buffoonish Boris Johnson’s Tories in a direct Sanders-Trump parallel; and now the Biden victory in the 2020 Democratic primary.

But defeatism would be the wrong lesson for leftists interested in passing social democratic policies in America and Britain. The reality is that leftist policy has never been more ascendant in the Democratic Party since at least the 1960s if not the 1930s. The Biden 2020 campaign platform is well to the left of the Clinton 2016 platform, which was itself well to the left of the Obama 2008 platform. Every major candidate in the 2020 field ran either on some version of Medicare for All, or at least a public option and Medicare expansion as a pathway toward it. Every major candidate proposed much bolder action on climate change than the Obama administration, and major policies to address student debt and college tuition. And on social policy from LGBT rights to criminal justice, the difference between the Democratic Party of today and that of 10 years ago could not be more stark. Most of those advances are due to the hard work of leftists whose tireless advocacy has successfully won the force of moral argument and persuaded mainstream Democratic base voters and independents. Most Democrats–including Joe Biden voters–overwhelmingly support leftist policy like Medicare for All and a Green New Deal.

[...]

What lost unequivocally, was a certain brand of anti-partisan class revolutionary electoral politics rooted in industrial-era Marxist theory. Zack Beauchamp’s excellent analysis at Vox is essential reading on this topic, but the upshot is that regardless of leftist policy, a strain of Marxist theory since the late 19th century has posited that the left can usher in a socialist utopia by uniting the workers of the world–and that any cultural divisions within the working class that get in the way are the product of false consciousness and manufactured consent to prevent the proletariat from arising together to overthrow their capitalist chains. In keeping with this tradition, leftists who subscribe to this ideology see the hyper-partisan divides of the modern era as the ultimate artificial divisive construct, and are adamantly hostile to a political reality in which suburban middle-class professionals (regardless of race, gender or culture) dominate the party of the “left” while blue-collar rurals (again regardless of race, gender or culture) dominate the “right.”

Accordingly, this perspective informs a Marxist electoral paradigm that 1) is explicitly hostile to the Democratic Party as it currently exists; 2) assumes that there must be a big mass of independent voters and non-voters to the left of base Democrats on economics and open to revolutionary politics; 3) attempts to minimize cultural divisions and negative partisanship in favor of winning over large swaths of theoretically culturally conservative but economically progressive politics.

Unlike leftist policy more broadly, this theory of the electorate has utterly failed. First, it turns out that in Democratic primaries, most voters actually like the Democratic Party! Second, as a bevy of political science studies have already shown for years, “independents” are something of a misnomer: they are a divided group that tend to vote almost exactly like partisans, but simply don’t choose to affiliate officially with a party. They aren’t in any significant sense to the left of base Democrats. Third, whatever the secret formula is for turning out voters under 45 in large numbers, the Sanders campaign didn’t find it. Certainly, Sanders won voters under 45 decisively (with Warren coming in a consistent if distant second), but didn’t turn them out in anything like the numbers needed to win. It is possible that a more explicitly generational politics might have done so, but Marxist constructs tend to eschew generational politics as yet another distraction from working-class solidarity politics–despite the fact that a “working-class” Baby Boomer who bought a suburban house in 1995 is much likelier to be financially stable than a “professional managerial class” Millennial struggling to pay rent in an urban studio apartment. Fourth, culturally conservative whites did not cross over in remotely the numbers leftists might have hoped.

Marxist theory leftists have a range of excuses for all of this–all of them unpersuasive. There is nothing surprising, immoral or even unsavory about moderates who were fractured and losing to a candidate consolidating 30% of the vote, uniting to beat a candidate with only 30% of the vote. Cable news wasn’t exactly friendly to Sanders or Warren, but that didn’t stop Sanders from winning the first three states–nor did it have even a fraction of the effect that the Clyburn endorsement and moderate consolidation did. Finally, Marxist theory proponents like to argue that their strategy would work in a general election if only the Democratic Party would let them win the primary. But this ignores the reality that Justice Democrats like Randy Bryce did win their primaries in many areas all around the country, only to lose their general elections. And while many leftists argue that Brexit politics are somehow not comparable to American politics around immigration and globalization (they are), the reality is that Corbyn’s experience does provide a sobering test case for how persuasive class revolutionary politics is in winning over white working class neighborhoods in a contest with a far-right xenophobic clown candidate. If the future really does come to socialism or barbarism, cultural conservatives have made it quite clear that they will be perfectly content with barbarism until they reach their deathbeds.

So where does the left go from here? The answer seems simple enough. Instead of using political campaigns as a proxy for testing industrial-era Marxist theories of social alignment, those who want to see leftist policy actually enacted should meet voters where they are and maximize gains within the partisan reality that actually exists. This means, among other things:

1) Embracing the Democratic Party and its voters as a positive force for change. Rather than seeing the party and its voters as an obstacle in the way of transforming society and the country, work to persuade Democrats that candidates who espouse more leftist policy while embracing the liberal side of modern cultural divides can and will win in general elections;

2) Using negative partisanship against the Republican Party to drive turnout. Rather than seeing partisanship as a false consciousness construct of an elite duopoly, recognize it as the fight between decency and barbarism that is actually is, and maximize both social and economic leftist policy within the partisan framework. If that means that some members of the working class with deplorable social views will never come on board, so be it. Leftists can still help them achieve greater material benefits while acknowledging that they will never be grateful for it at the voting booth.

3) Work with even centrist coalition partners on mutual partisan goals aimed at eliminating the unfair chokeholds the right-wing maintains over progress. Much of the rancor between left and center-left is little more than rats fighting in a cage built by the Senate filibuster, gerrymandering, the electoral college, conservative court stacking, etc. Leftists may find that even their intra-party enemies share more of their values than they know, but that everyone is trying to find different pathways to escape the cage. Accept the reality that using the bully pulpit to advocate for material needs policies won’t magically smash that cage on its own by activating a different electorate, and get to work on breaking it directly at every key structural point: eliminating the filibuster, adding states to the union, bypassing the electoral college, pushing non-partisan redistricting, etc.

4) Stop using national presidential campaigns as the key testing grounds for left-versus-liberal contests of will and start more local. First, the stakes at the national level are as high as they can possibly be: Democrats, especially older ones, are wary of defeat from past experience. Living through the Reagan, Bush and Trump presidencies has justifiably or not taught them to vote defensively. Meanwhile, conservative structural impediments to policy at the national level increasingly minimize the differences in outcomes between liberals and leftists, the higher up the chain of government you go.

[...]

In sum, now is not the time for despondency on the left. There is ample cause for hope and celebration. Leftist policy is increasingly ascendant in the Democratic Party. But it does call for a change in electoral strategy. Let the industrial Marxist dream of working-class electoral realignment die, and embrace a strategy of leftist policy maximization within an aggressively partisan framework.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/0...al-theory-did/
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Old 04-12-2020, 01:03 PM   #7
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Look what the Tea Party did to the GOP. That extremist side of the party took over from the ground up. Yes you had a few figureheads in DC to give it some juice, but the GOP got to where they are by winning at the bottom and worked their way up.

All while rigging the game as they gained power. Trumpism has been lurking in this country for a long time, and it all blew up in 2016
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Old 04-12-2020, 03:58 PM   #8
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Ms. Reade, 56, told The Times that the assault happened in the spring of 1993. She said she had tracked down Mr. Biden to deliver an athletic bag when he pushed her against a cold wall, started kissing her neck and hair and propositioned her. He slid his hand up her cream-colored blouse, she said, and used his knee to part her bare legs before reaching under her skirt.

“It happened at once. He’s talking to me and his hands are everywhere and everything is happening very quickly,” she recalled. “He was kissing me and he said, very low, ‘Do you want to go somewhere else?’”
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Old 04-12-2020, 04:57 PM   #9
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Old 04-12-2020, 09:24 PM   #10
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US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

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Ms. Reade, 56, told The Times that the assault happened in the spring of 1993. She said she had tracked down Mr. Biden to deliver an athletic bag when he pushed her against a cold wall, started kissing her neck and hair and propositioned her. He slid his hand up her cream-colored blouse, she said, and used his knee to part her bare legs before reaching under her skirt.

“It happened at once. He’s talking to me and his hands are everywhere and everything is happening very quickly,” she recalled. “He was kissing me and he said, very low, ‘Do you want to go somewhere else?’”




Why did you choose only to post this paragraph? It’s a big article. I guess there’s an irony in that she’s claiming he did to her what Trump bragged about doing repeatedly for years because “they” let you when you’re a celebrity.

Here’s more from the article:

Quote:
Soon after Ms. Reade made the new allegation, in a podcast interview released on March 25, The Times began reporting on her account and seeking corroboration through interviews, documents and other sources. The Times interviewed Ms. Reade on multiple days over hours, as well as those she told about Mr. Biden’s behavior and other friends. The Times has also interviewed lawyers who spoke to Ms. Reade about her allegation; nearly two dozen people who worked with Mr. Biden during the early 1990s, including many who worked with Ms. Reade; and the other seven women who criticized Mr. Biden last year, to discuss their experiences with him.

No other allegation about sexual assault surfaced in the course of reporting, nor did any former Biden staff members corroborate any details of Ms. Reade’s allegation. The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden.

On Thursday, Ms. Reade filed a report with the Washington, D.C., police, saying she was the victim of a sexual assault in 1993; the public incident report, provided to The Times by Ms. Reade and the police, does not mention Mr. Biden by name, but she said the complaint was about him. Ms. Reade said she filed the report to give herself an additional degree of safety from potential threats. Filing a false police report may be punishable by a fine and imprisonment.

Ms. Reade, who worked as a staff assistant helping manage the office interns, said she also filed a complaint with the Senate in 1993 about Mr. Biden; she said she did not have a copy of it, and such paperwork has not been located. The Biden campaign said it did not have a complaint. The Times reviewed an official copy of her employment history from the Senate that she provided showing she was hired in December 1992 and paid by Mr. Biden’s office until August 1993.

The seven other women who had complained about Mr. Biden told the Times this month that they did not have any new information about their experiences to add, but several said they believed Ms. Reade’s account.

Last year, Mr. Biden, 77, acknowledged the women’s complaints about his conduct, saying his intentions were benign and promising to be “more mindful and respectful of people’s personal space.”

In response to Ms. Reade’s allegation, Kate Bedingfield, a deputy Biden campaign manager, said in a statement: “Vice President Biden has dedicated his public life to changing the culture and the laws around violence against women. He authored and fought for the passage and reauthorization of the landmark Violence Against Women Act. He firmly believes that women have a right to be heard — and heard respectfully. Such claims should also be diligently reviewed by an independent press. What is clear about this claim: It is untrue. This absolutely did not happen.”

Ms. Reade made her new allegation public as Mr. Biden was closing in on the Democratic presidential nomination after winning a string of primaries against his chief rival, Senator Bernie Sanders. Ms. Reade, who describes herself as a “third-generation Democrat,” said she originally favored Marianne Williamson and Senator Elizabeth Warren in the race but voted for Mr. Sanders in the California primary last month. She said her decision to come forward had nothing to do with politics or helping Mr. Sanders, and said neither his campaign nor the Trump campaign had encouraged her to make her allegation.

President Trump has been accused of sexual assault and misconduct by more than a dozen women, who have described a pattern of behavior that went far beyond the accusations against Mr. Biden. The president also directed illegal payments, including $130,000 to a pornographic film actress, Stormy Daniels, before the 2016 election to silence women about alleged affairs with Mr. Trump, according to federal prosecutors.

Mr. Trump has even boasted about his mistreatment of women; in a 2005 recording, he described pushing himself on women and said he would “grab them by the pussy,” bragging that he could get away with “anything” because of his celebrity.

Even so, Mr. Trump has at times attacked opponents over their treatment of women. The president has not mentioned Ms. Reade’s allegation, which has circulated on social media and in liberal and conservative news outlets.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/u...e=articleShare

There’s a lot more to read.
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Old 04-13-2020, 10:57 AM   #11
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Why did you choose only to post this paragraph? It’s a big article. I guess there’s an irony in that she’s claiming he did to her what Trump bragged about doing repeatedly for years because “they” let you when you’re a celebrity.

Here’s more from the article:




There’s a lot more to read.
Two wrongs don’t make it right. Are you saying because Trump did it Biden gets a pass. It sickens me to see the lefts hypocrisy and double standard. If a Republican is accused the victims must be believed. But if a democrat is accused (Clinton, Biden ... etc) then slow your roll there is more to it. I just want one set of standards ok

Also that was a shit bag thing for trump to say - it would have gotten anybody else fired or if in government or military service relieved.
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Old 04-13-2020, 11:09 AM   #12
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I've already stated my feelings about Biden, I don't have a double standard.

But that was far more than a shitbag thing for Trump to say. He admitted to sexual assault. A crime. It wasn't just locker room talk. And he's been accused by multiple women.
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Old 04-13-2020, 11:11 AM   #13
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One of his former wives said he raped her. Ivana. Then it didn't make it into her book? I'm not sure about the details, it's not an easy subject to read about.
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Old 04-13-2020, 11:41 AM   #14
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It sickens me to see the lefts hypocrisy and double standard.
Yes, that's what's sickening here. The hypocrisy of the left. Which on this forum appears totally split re: Biden and this accusation.

Meanwhile the good Republican "Christians" fucking moralizing and patronizing the rest of us while voting for Trump and tacitly supporting his revolting behaviour, not to mention immoral policies, well that's a-ok. Fucking porn stars and paying them off while your (3rd) wife is a few months post-partum, sexually assaulting God knows how many women, a history of racism, sketchy businesses and the carryover of the same into the presidency? Fake news! Those are "personal failings" that don't matter! This whole lot can fuck off, nobody wants to hear their bullshit anymore.
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Old 04-13-2020, 12:13 PM   #15
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Two wrongs don’t make it right. Are you saying because Trump did it Biden gets a pass. It sickens me to see the lefts hypocrisy and double standard. If a Republican is accused the victims must be believed. But if a democrat is accused (Clinton, Biden ... etc) then slow your roll there is more to it. I just want one set of standards ok

Also that was a shit bag thing for trump to say - it would have gotten anybody else fired or if in government or military service relieved.
I believe what he's saying is that you selectively posted parts of the article that are damning towards Biden while completely leaving out the parts that raise questions to the validity of the accusations... while also ignoring the laundry list of despicable behavior by your chosen savior.
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Old 04-13-2020, 12:20 PM   #16
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It's just a tough subject. I don't want to deny that there's a chance that Biden is a creep and could be guilty, and I definitely don't want to be that guy that dismisses it because that's horrible to actual victims, so yeah...my gut check is that Biden is not a bad guy. Well before he ran for President, I've always gotten a really good feeling about him. Then again, I got the same feeling about Tiger Woods and we know how that turned out. You never know.

But what I do know, Trump willingly bragged about doing it. So I guess if I were to "pick a side", I'd say that there is a more likely chance that the guy bragging about it (while not knowing the cameras were running) is guilty.

But overall, when it comes to November, I sincerely hope they're both not actually guilty of sexual assault, and I'll choose to vote for the non failed reality TV star with the dictator obsession.
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Old 04-13-2020, 12:35 PM   #17
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US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

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Originally Posted by Magnus Maximus View Post
Two wrongs don’t make it right. Are you saying because Trump did it Biden gets a pass. It sickens me to see the lefts hypocrisy and double standard. If a Republican is accused the victims must be believed. But if a democrat is accused (Clinton, Biden ... etc) then slow your roll there is more to it. I just want one set of standards ok

Also that was a shit bag thing for trump to say - it would have gotten anybody else fired or if in government or military service relieved.



Of course not.

I’m saying that this story should be looked into, and it is. It should be taken seriously, and people can react to it how they want. It reminds me a bit of Kavanaugh. CBF’s accusation wouldn’t have held up in court, but Kavanaugh wasn’t being charged with a crime, it was part of a job “interview,” so to speak — and it’s much the same here.

I will also say that there’s no comparison whatsoever between Biden’s past and Trump’s past. What’s unfortunate about this story is it will become a “so what, he did it too” for Trump supporters, like when he trotted our Kathleen Wiley and others after the Access Hollywood tape. And that’s really what I was pointing out -/ the poster only posted the single most lurid paragraph in what was an otherwise pretty evenhanded article.
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Old 04-13-2020, 12:38 PM   #18
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US Politics XXII: Idk About You, But This Is Thread 22

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Yes, that's what's sickening here. The hypocrisy of the left. Which on this forum appears totally split re: Biden and this accusation.


Nevermind. Misunderstood.
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:13 PM   #19
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Sanders endorses Biden.
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Old 04-13-2020, 01:25 PM   #20
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Who was it that equated Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump in terms of ego

That gets dumber sounding every day, not that it wasn’t totally preposterous the minute it was said.
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