This voice in my head...

[Liesje]

So, I'm graduating in one month and getting married in September. I have a wide range of jobs that I'd be interested in and I'm not *too* concerned about finding an entry-level job that will work for me. We know where we want to live and look for jobs. But of course I keep worrying that nothing will work out, and we'll be stuck in my parent's basement or something lame like that.

Anytime I think about the future (which is about 2-4 times a day), this little voice in my head will always say "well you could do non-profit in East Africa..." Then before my brain can really process how significant of a decision that would be, I think back, "yeah, why shouldn't I?"

Of course I'd love to go back there and do non-profit/development work. I only care to make enough money to live by, but everytime I decide to entertain the voice in my head and go to Google, I don't know where to begin!

Should I listen to the voice? I feel like this should not be a "last resort" kind of thing (like, ok I'll do this program next year if nothing else works out) b/c it's a pretty big step..leap to take. Also, it seems logical to me that if we were to just up and leave and do something like this, it would make the most sense to do it right away, before we're tied down somewhere. But then I feel like I'm just getting all these fancy ideas in my head because I haven't yet dealt with post-college reality.

(Now Phil's going to read this and be like, "what the hell is she thinking? maybe she should ask ME first!" OK, Philly Billy, I was going to tell you, but it's 2am and I won't see you until tomorrow afternoon! and honestly I did not think about this until after you went home.)

Maybe all the cold medicine and African music is getting to me at this late hour.

 

[indra]

If you really want to do something in this vein, now is a good time to do it. Although some people are able to make drastic changes later in their lives, it's much harder to make the leap later.

If you think it's something you will regret if you don't do...do it now.

 

[Angela Harlem]

If you really want to do something in this vein, now is a good time to do it. Although some people are able to make drastic changes later in their lives, it's much harder to make the leap later.

If you think it's something you will regret if you don't do...do it now.

tis true. i almost worked for world vision once. i know i will never do it now, sadly.

 

[Lila64]

Don't you think you need to discuss this with Phil? I know the decision is ultimately yours, but you are getting married in a few months...

 

[Utoo]

Lies,

First off, congrats on graduating & getting married! Big leaps in your life, and both a lot of fun.

Second, yeah, you definitely should discuss with Phil once he wakes up. We all know he's a great guy & he'll probably support you in whatever you do.

One thing to think about is that there are a ton of options in between the extremes of working full-time in Africa and not doing Africa-related work at all. There are a lot of non-profits and international development firms that would alllow you to work primarily from the US, but with frequent excursions (from days to weeks to months) to Africa. Being from DC, I'd encourage you to look at firms based here, as there are *dozens* of non-profits and Africa-centered firms. I have two friends who work for an international development company called something like Development Alternative Initiatives or something ("DAI" is all I know). They both work primarily here, though one has been in Afghanistan for about 6 months, and the other has been working on-and-off in Sudan for weeks at a time, and was just offered a promotion that would have her working in Sudan for the entire next year. My wife works for a non-profit called The Academy For Educational Development (AED), a big non-profit based in DC, but with offices throughout the country & world. My wife works in the domestic division with health communication, but they have a HUGE international sectioin, much of which works with Africa on many issues, including HIV/AIDS, education, violence against women, and many others. Many of the folks who work in these areas work primarily from the US, but have frequent trips to Africa to work.

One bit of advice that I'd throw out there is to recognize that your first job or two out of college doesn't have to be the job or even the field that you'll keep for the rest of your life. You seem like you have a good attitude about it...but I just wanted to throw it in there. When my wife graduated college in 2001 (I was 2002--woo-hoo! older woman!), she took a job at the place at which she'd interned her senior year. In a few months, she was pretty unhappy with her entry-level job. What made it worse was that all of her friends were talking about how they LOVED their jobs---she felt like the only one who'd hated hers. However, by the end of their first year, she'd been promoted and now LOVED her job, while everyone else who'd said they'd liked their job had actually lied and had ALL changed on to their second--or even third--jobs by the end of that first year! As a friend's dad told me in college, everything's just a drop in the bucket---you can't know where you'll be when the bucket's filled, and you can't expect to fill it all in one shot.

Anyway, best of luck! You guys seem like you'd both make great decisions and work with whatever happens.

 

[digsy]

If you really want to do something in this vein, now is a good time to do it. Although some people are able to make drastic changes later in their lives, it's much harder to make the leap later.

If you think it's something you will regret if you don't do...do it now.

i agree with this... although i did a small stint volunteering last year, i'd love to actually go back a do a year or something like that but unfortunately theres just too much tying me down now... i like to think in a few years time i'll have cleared all that up and have the opportunity again but who knows.
in other words, do it while you can, it may be difficult later and you'll regret nothaving dnoe it earlier.

Don't you think you need to discuss this with Phil? I know the decision is ultimately yours, but you are getting married in a few months...

um yeah, this is really important. it sounds like you've been thinking about this for a while, you def need to speak to phil about it and work out whats going to be best for BOTH of you

 

[Bonochick]

Now Phil's going to read this and be like, "what the hell is she thinking? maybe she should ask ME first.

Umm...yeah!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously...before WE give you advice, you best check with the man who wants to spend the rest of his life with you.

 

[MsGiggles]

Re: Re: This voice in my head...

Umm...yeah!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously...before WE give you advice, you best check with the man who wants to spend the rest of his life with you. /QUOTE]





Congrats on your graduation and upcoming wedding - sounds like you'll be busy over the next several months

 

[Liesje]

Well, of course I'd talk to Phil about it. I didn't mean for the thread to be whether I decide to go off and do something on my own. All I'm saying is that at present, neither of us really know what we want to do, neither of us have jobs, and we don't have a place to live. I have no interest in going somewhere longterm on my own, and having been there I think Phil would really like it there. The way he approaches life would fit pretty well with the East African culture. Supposing he thinks something like this would be cool to try (which I think he would, can't say for sure, but we have discussed this posibility a while back when I first came back from TZ)....I just don't know where to start looking. When I Google for stuff, I find mostly short-term volunteer things, like 12 weeks maximum. I guess I'm not really sure what I'm looking for as far as the words they use to describe programs. "Volunteer" seems to mean that you don't get paid and usually are paying several thousands of dollars. I've found a few "internship" programs that give stipends, but it's hard to tell whether they intend for that to be enough to support you financially, or whether again it's more of a short-term thing. When I look under "employment", those positions are mostly for things like director, program manager, etc. where you obviously need years of experience and a master's degree. I think I'm looking for something in between...

Utoo, I completely agree with your second paragraph. I'm the type of person that changed majors five times! I'm also the type of person whose identity is not defined simply by my position in the work force. I'll have a business communications degree, but I have zero interest in squeezing my way into some executive position. I see work as something you do so that you can spend time with family and friends at night and on weekends. I'm interested in positions from public relations to web development to veterinary sciences. If I had enough business management smarts and some capital, I'd either open my own dog kennel or a gymnastics program. So yeah, whatever pays the bills, man, is kind of my attitude! As for Phil, he's also looking into a lot of different things. He likes working for the YMCA, but he also likes parks and rec stuff (like park ranger) and he likes landscaping. Neither of us have these perfect jobs all mapped out in our heads that we HAVE to have or we'll get all depressed and mopey if we don't get our way immediately. Also, we're looking at moving far, far away so I don't want to bite off more than I can chew right away while having to deal with moving to a brand new place.

 

[Liesje]

Here, ok, think of it this way...

I (as in either me personally, or me collectively with someone else, like Phil) don't like to make big decisions, and THEN start doing research. If we were to try something like this, this is how it would work: I would gather some info on a bunch of different opportunities. Then I'd go to Phil and say "let's look at these and see if any of them might be interesting for both of us." Make sense? I get all the ducks in a row because that's what I'm good at, and then we decide together.

So the part where I'm stuck is that I don't know where to look because when I went to Africa, it was through school, not a program. So if anyone's done, or thought of doing something like this before, I need some pointers on where to look for starters. Or anyone know people who said they enjoyed doing this or that, that would be good too.

 

[UberBeaver]

Anytime I think about the future (which is about 2-4 times a day), this little voice in my head will always say "well you could do non-profit in East Africa..." Then before my brain can really process how significant of a decision that would be, I think back, "yeah, why shouldn't I?"

The voices in your head sound like such nice people. The ones in my head are mean. And they .... hurt people.

 

[Liesje]

Re: Re: This voice in my head...

The voices in your head sound like such nice people. The ones in my head are mean. And they .... hurt people.

Oh I have some other ones too! Like the ones that suggest what I should do to my boss or my professors

 

[anitram]

I've often entertained the idea of going down there because I have a lot of family in Africa, primarily in Namibia (yes that place existed before Brangelina desceded on it). I looked into it a few years ago but at that time I felt like if I was going to go there, I wanted to make a significant contribution. I actually urge anyone thinking about it to pick up Paul Theroux's "Dark Star Safari" which contains a blistering critique of the aid agencies in Africa and just how ineffectual they've been and what a worse place Africa is today than it was 40 years ago. It was such an important book, IMO, and it really changed my mind a lot regarding what is the best way of going about effecting change on the continent.

So basically I felt like I didn't want to be just another one of the thousands of volunteers descending there. I wanted to go as a highly skilled person to do something which the local people could not without outside help. Right now I'm in a position to do so because I can go with MSF or a number of other medical groups to do lab work, AIDS and malaria studies and so on. And since I'm going to law school next year and we have an internship program in Sierra Leone, that's also an option I'm interested in.

You sound like somebody who likes to plan ahead and have an idea of what you want to do. So I'd suggest to you that if you want to go, maybe you'd be happier taking this approach - don't go just for the sake of going because I really, sincerely wonder how helpful that ends up being in the end, but look for an agency whose work you find important, and where you could make a meaningful contribution. My uncle, who was born in Africa, always said, we have thousands of people coming here from the west and the truth is, nothing is better and nothing has changed and I wonder whether their being here in massive numbers is effective in the end.

It's probably a different answer than you'll get from most people here, because I think the tendency is to go with your gut reaction of poor Africa, we HAVE to do something. But the question is, how useful are we there and whether being there is truly beneficial to the people or if it's beneficial to our own sense of guilt.

 

[Liesje]

Right, anitram, I think that's a very good point. That's why even though I'm a Christian, I would never want to do missions. I've seen the churches in East Africa, how they take care of their people, and if anything, THEY should come HERE to evangelize to us!

If I were to even entertain the possibility of going, I want to find an org. that has proven to be effective and been embraced by the community it serves. A lot of the programs I'm finding seem so short term, it's like they're wasting resources training these people who want to volunteer for a "mission trip" and by the time they've had to learn their job and adjust to the culture, only a few weeks of their work is really effective.

I think I'm going to talk more to a professor of mine. He's native Tanzanian and now does consulting all over the world. He's been to every country and met w/ Pres. Bush two weeks ago. He has always encouraged us to consider Africa, not because we should all go over to help the poor and starving, but because there are good business opportunities there and what their economies really need is long-term investment rather than short term aid. He was the one we went with through school and he introduced us to some amazing programs in Tanzania. He made it clear from the beginning that we were there to study development, not as an extended mission trip. I feel like it would be better to take his advice, as someone who actually came from the no-celan-water-mud-hut type of village we see all the time, than sign up with some mission group based in North America.

Speaking of Namibia, my ultimate dream in life is to work at the cheetah program there

 

[Party Boy]

Speaking of Namibia, my ultimate dream in life is to work at the cheetah program there

Did you ever see that link I posted for that Cheetah sanctury in Namibia awhile back?

With you graduating and getting married, your going to go through a lot of changes in your life over the coming months. Maybe taking a step back and waiting awhile to really think about what you want to do is better than rushing into something you might later regret.

If I think back to where I was when I was in my early 20's and everything I have done in the intervening years (am 34 now), hardly any of it was planned or thought out. A lot of decisions you will make will be based on situations that come along unexpectedly - try being 34 but still thinking like your 21!

 

[Calluna]

If I think back to where I was when I was in my early 20's and everything I have done in the intervening years (am 34 now), hardly any of it was planned or thought out. A lot of decisions you will make will be based on situations that come along unexpectedly - try being 34 but still thinking like your 21!

So true!

 

[redkat]

This sounds like something that is a real passion for you. Fully explore it before giving up on the idea.

Now is the time to do these things, other excuses and obligations will get in the way later on in life.

Good luck with figuring it out.

 

[**Liesa**]

Hey, LivLuv, I think it's great that you want to do this. And what better time to do it? Now, right after you graduate and get settled someplace new, right?

Of course, it is probably a good idea to consult with your significant other. They like to feel like they're part of making decisions sometimes too...

Anway, I still have two years of school to go, but I'm going to be a teacher, so I'm very interested in moving to Africa to work. I'm running into all kinds of problems though. Everywhere that I look, well, they want me to pay them an arm and a leg. I totally understand why, but I'd like to be treated as a worker, not a volunteer that's sticking around for a month or two. It is very frustrating, but I'm sure something will pop up.

 

[Liesje]

Today in the car:

Me: So, what do you think about going to Africa for a while?

Phil: *nods* Let's do it!

 

[Got Philk?]

Holy Hell, you were serious? I'll take you out to dinner tomorrow....

YES! I win. Dinner! And we get to communicate with each other! WOOHOO!

 

[Lila64]

 

[Got Philk?]

I want to say to everyone thanks for helping me out with the communication lines. Livluv is one who likes to keep lots in. We will for sure talk about this together, though, I am not outrightly opposed to this idea.

Second, I think YOU'RE taking me out to dinner on this one.

On a serious note. I would honestly appreciate your thoughts and prayers at this time. I am quitting my job at the end of this month and working landscaping unless something better comes up, and Lies is done with school. We need to figure out where we go AFTER September 23, our wedding day. This is a new one certainly, but hey...maybe it's what we need!

Thanks all!
philk

 

[Liesje]

On a serious note. I would honestly appreciate your thoughts and prayers at this time. I am quitting my job at the end of this month and working landscaping unless something better comes up, and Lies is done with school. We need to figure out where we go AFTER September 23, our wedding day. This is a new one certainly, but hey...maybe it's what we need!

Yeah, b/c we're NOT getting stuck in my parent's basement! We will go to another continent sooner than we'll end up stuck here!! (and that IS an executive decision)

mmmm...dinner....

 

[Got Philk?]

Well, the above statement would never happen b/c I could get a job around here and so could Lies. So, we would be able to get our own apartment. But my point is, it's a time for decisions and it can be a stressful time.
philk

 

[Lila64]

And best of luck to you two. You seem like very level-headed, smart people, and we need more of those kind in the world

 

[Got Philk?]

I want to post this too. I don't think Lies was so much posting to seek marriage counsellingD). Does anyone have any ideas on how to get info on this type of opportunity?

I should also let you know, I'm probably more gung ho on this idea than she is. I work waaaaaaaaaay to much on emotion and this...my friends...is making me pretty durn excited.

 

[digsy]

the only volunteer program i know of that empolys you on local wages as opposed to has you pay them to work is VSO... and as i'm in the UK, i'm not certain how that would apply to you guys on the other side of the pond... take a look anyway, they may operate internationally?
www.vso.org.uk
some of the positions may look daunting and you may feel you don't have the experience for them but definitely have a look and enquire with them anyway.
check out raleigh as well... they had some interesteing programs last time i checked but i'm not certain on teh cost implications.

i also have a list of loads of other various volunteer organisations, some that charge a fortune, some that don't, long term, short term, UK based and internationally based etc etc.
i'll PM you if you like, i'll just have to dig that list out

i also have another link somewhere to jobs in africa, advertised specifically for westerners who wan't to go out there and give what they can to the communities but who feel like they're working as opposed to volunteering and will get paid accordingly for it. thats gonna take a bit of time to dig out (i have no idea where i saved it) so i may only be able to get that to you in a week or so if i can find it

 

[namkcuR]

Have you asked a Magic 8 Ball about this? You should ask a Magic 8 Ball. Now, I know what you're gonna say - "You think I should make life-altering decisions based on the completely arbitrary things a stupid inanimate toy says?" - well, I tell you, a Magic 8 Ball is NOT a toy! They are creepily accurate. The only time you're really in trouble with one is when it says 'Ask Again Later'!

I kid, I kid.

 

[tommyvill]

YES DO IT!!! IT WILL BE WONDERFUL; I ASSURE YOU!!!

 

[Kristie]

Do it!
I'd hate to see you regret not doing it later in life.

I met a lady yesterday who is a PhD student in the public health program here, she and her husband goes to Tanzania every summer to do AIDS work. She's trying to do an anthropological approach by combining the traditional medicine and the holy man with modern medicine. I thought it sounded awesome.