"The Overcorrection of Pop"

[Flying FuManchu]

"MrBrau1 said:

Do you really want change, only for changes sake? Without an inspiration or focus? Is the band playing on the stage that much of a secondary concern to U2 fans? Seems so. The songs on their albums get judged not on their own musical merits, but on attitude of purpose."

I don't care for change for only change's sake. I'm ready for a new U2 album from the band though.

 

[Chizip]

Do you really want change, only for changes sake? Without an inspiration or focus?

How about a change with inspiration and focus?

I think that is exactly the problem for some people: that U2 gained popularity with the last two albums, that they want to be on the charts and want to get new audiences.

Achtung Baby was one of U2's most popular albums and I don't see anybody having a problem with that. I think some people have a problem with the way U2 are trying to obtain their popularity these days, not the popularity itself.

as the great morrissey sings, america is not the world. pop & popmart was a huge success in europe and south america:

pop topped basically all european charts

popmart sold out all european concerts (for stadium audiences of 50.000 and more), and in many countries by the time of the concerts (six and seven months after the album release) the album went again to nr 1 in the charts.

why it didn't happen in america, i have my ideas but it's better to keep them for me.

but i agree that, unfortunately, from 2000 on the process of making music for u2 has been often disturbed by the idea "we have to please the american mainstream and sell millions there".

Oh I agree that Pop/Popmart wasn't a failure, thats why I put failure in quotation marks. But unfortunately the band does view it as a failure, just look at the recent interviews and lack of Pop songs on tour. and that is what has led to your last point, which i agree with.

 

[Yahweh]

Personally I think it would look rather like a parody of themselves if they came back with tours like Zoo TV or Popmart. It seems to me that a lot of U2 fans want U2 to become a karaoke machine from the time period that they themselves "thought was best".

U2 themselves are influenced by different things then they were back then, they have different ideas of how the music should sound right at the current moment.

U2 fans are like trying to grip an icy slope gripping on to the past and they feel it is slipping away from them. Its like they only want U2 to change enough to still sound like the time period that the specific individual fan liked the best. They want records to be made personally suited to their needs. Sorry it is not going to happen.

U2 still create magic in the room, it is just a different sounding magic that has been created and maybe it comes as a shellshock for a certain elistist group of U2 fans....but to use a quote posted earlier in this thread "who gives a fuck"

 

[Chizip]

hmm I don't think anybody in this thread has been asking U2 to comeback with tours like ZooTV or Popmart

and i think people just miss the attitude they once had, not necessarily the sound

 

[roy]

U2 fans are like trying to grip an icy slope gripping on to the past and they feel it is slipping away from them. Its like they only want U2 to change enough to still sound like the time period that the specific individual fan liked the best. [/B]

Too true.

 

[Popmartijn]

I think that in the recent article in Mojo there was a very interesting quote about this subject. From Mr. Straight Talk, a.k.a. Larry Mullen Jnr., nonetheless!
Here's the quote, expanded a bit to get the full context:

[Mojo] Because Pop failed, U2 went back to something they knew would work - ergo, All That You Can't Leave Behind and the earthier textures of ...Atomic Bomb. Fair?
[Larry] "(Sigh, 34 seconds of furrowed brow silence) First of all, I don't think we're bright enough to be that calculating."
Oh, come on.
"No, no. We don't work like that. Having said that, there was a sense that Pop was us experimenting beyond our means. A certain amount of panic set in. Where should we be as a band? What is it that makes U2 'U2'? And I said, What makes U2 'U2' is the idea of four people working in a room. We haven't done that for a while - maybe we should look at that again. The Greatest Hits was being talked about, so we'd started listening to some of the old records. And it was like, Y'know what? There was something going on there, listen! So it was more to do with the essence of U2. If U2 move into the future, I would like to think we will experiment again, because we're gonna have to. This is great, the four band members, stripped down and whatever, but there's more out there for us. I don't think the experimentation is over. You can only get to ...Atomic Bomb after you've done Pop. You only get there because of that. And that's what's interesting about the journey.

(bold emphasis is obviously mine )

So to go back to the original post in this thread, not even the band (and with Larry often, musically, the most conservative member you may extrapolate that the other members also have this sense of direction) thinks that the 'safe' U2 is here to stay.

C ya!

Marty

 

[Chizip]

good quote, thanks

 

[U2girl]

Achtung Baby was one of U2's most popular albums and I don't see anybody having a problem with that. I think some people have a problem with the way U2 are trying to obtain their popularity these days, not the popularity itself.

My point exactly. It was cool for them to be popular in the 90's and 80's, but can't have that in the 00's.

I bet there wouldn't be half the bashing of 00's U2 if the last two albums weren't so popular. I bet even more if ATYCLB and/or Bomb tanked critically and commercially there would be 24/7 partying threads about it in this forum.

 

[namkcuR]

My point exactly. It was cool for them to be popular in the 90's and 80's, but can't have that in the 00's.

I bet there wouldn't be half the bashing of 00's U2 if the last two albums weren't so popular. I bet even more if ATYCLB and/or Bomb tanked critically and commercially there would be 24/7 partying threads about it in this forum.

I don't care whether they're popular or not, I just feel sick when they design their records for Top 40 radio, which hasn't been any good for a long time. Top 40 radio is crap. For the most part, looking for good music in the Top 40 is like looking for a bar of soap in a sewer. U2 are WAY too brilliant of a band to have to be trying to make their music fit in better in the sewer.

Think of this way. It is universally agreed upon that Swiss chocolate is the best chocolate in the world. What if a company that makes Swiss chocolate decides to try to make their chocolate taste more like crappy old Hershey's chocolate in an attempt to sell more chocolate in the United States? What would that say about them?

Look, U2 are a BRILLIANT band. I think 99% of their music up to 2000 is, at worst, very very good, and at best, some of the best rock music ever written/recorded. Since 2000, there has been some pretty good stuff, but it's still only Hershey's. I hate to see them making Hershey's when they're capable of making the best Swiss chocolate in the world.

Sorry for all the analogies.

 

[Chizip]

I bet there wouldn't be half the bashing of 00's U2 if the last two albums weren't so popular. I bet even more if ATYCLB and/or Bomb tanked critically and commercially there would be 24/7 partying threads about it in this forum.

I bet you're wrong.

 

[TheFly84138]

My point exactly. It was cool for them to be popular in the 90's and 80's, but can't have that in the 00's.

I bet there wouldn't be half the bashing of 00's U2 if the last two albums weren't so popular. I bet even more if ATYCLB and/or Bomb tanked critically and commercially there would be 24/7 partying threads about it in this forum.

No way, don't look at it like that. Most of us hate How to Dismantle because it's a piece of crap. Seriously, that album is a such an abberation on U2's career.

 

[U2Kitten]

Besides all the other stuff I already said, I think the idea a select few (and their alters) are hung up on that the band secretly wants to do another Pop but doesn't because they think it won't sell and they pretend to diss it to get the people who didn't like Pop to come back is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

U2 are not doing another Pop, or another AB, or another JT or Boy because THAT IS NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING NOW! That was years ago, all these are phases of the band, and now they're in another one! That's ALL! There is no conspiracy against Pop!

You know in a way it's the biggest irony of all, more ironic than any irony they ever TRIED for that the same people who dissed people for not liking Pop because they 'changed' are the very people who are dissing them now because they CHANGED AGAIN!! So all this horseshit about the band changing is all moot!


The band are no longer in the same mindset as they were when they did Pop, or any other album. They are older, they have families, they have experienced more tragedies, they have untold wealth, they are into other things (like Bono's political work) and they just plain don't think or feel like they did 8 or 9 years ago. Face it- U2 worked VERY long and very hard on this last album, and baby, you better believe what they gave us is exactly what is in their hearts and minds and exactly what came out of them as the guys in their mid forties that they now are. If you cannot accept that, perhaps it's time to look for another band to worship.

 

[Chizip]

Once again I don't see anybody in this thread clamoring for another Pop or AB. In fact, one of the main points in the first post of this thread was a little disappointment in U2 repeating themselves.

And just because there are people that disagree with you doesn't mean it is only one person with many alters. The fact that you use alters doesn't mean the rest of us do.

 

[U2Kitten]

Once again I don't see anybody in this thread clamoring for another Pop or AB. In fact, one of the main points in the first post of this thread was a little disappointment in U2 repeating themselves.

If you don't want them to repeat themselves why do you want them to be the same as they were 9years ago? Is it okay as long as it's something you like?

Be careful what you wish for, if you only want them to change for change's sake they may go hip hop country opera or something!

And just because there are people that disagree with you doesn't mean it is only one person with many alters. The fact that you use alters doesn't mean the rest of us do.

But because I do use alters means I can tell when someone else is guilty of the same. Takes one to know one.

I never said it was one person, but like Mr. Brau said there are 3 or 4 who are hung up on this eternally. As Mr. Brau pointed out there have been many threads the same by the same people. I have noticed that in the past and all along (I have been here quite awhile) that there are certain people who are hung up on this and keep bringing up the same basic comments. Sometimes over time the same things have been said by 'newbies' who suddenly appear and disappear. Uh huh. No question deathbear and I are not the only people using alters. I would say close to a third of the registered users here, at least, are alters of usual posters. This was especially true in the 'down time' between albums. So yeah I think the number of people who are eaten up by people not liking Pop or U2 not being like that any more are not many in numbers, yet very persistant and active. As Jick used to say 'the very vocal minority.'



And I stand by my comments that there is nothing behind HTDAAB's sound and attitude other than that is the way the band members genuinely are right now. There is no hidden new sound in them waiting to come out, what you hear is what you get!

 

[corianderstem]

The fact that you use alters doesn't mean the rest of us do.

Oh GOD, there are sock puppets here at Interference? I thought I was safe here from all that crap.

 

[U2Kitten]

Oh GOD, there are sock puppets here at Interference? I thought I was safe here from all that crap.

:eyeroll:

It's very common.

and it's

 

[Chizip]

If you don't want them to repeat themselves why do you want them to be the same as they were 9years ago? Is it okay as long as it's something you like?

Again, show me anywhere in this thread where someone wanted them to be the same as 9 years ago. I think you are misunderstanding.

And you really think at least 1/3 of the people here are using alters? I really don't know about that.

And I stand by my comments that there is nothing behind HTDAAB's sound and attitude other than that is the way the band members genuinely are right now. There is no hidden new sound in them waiting to come out, what you hear is what you get!

I'll agree with that.

 

[corianderstem]

It's very common.

I guess the Annoying Internet Stuff can be found all over the internet. Shocking.

Oh, well. As long as people are using them for good and not evil.

 

[U2Kitten]

I guess the Annoying Internet Stuff can be found all over the internet. Shocking.

Oh, well. As long as people are using them for good and not evil.

People use them for a variety of reasons. Using them to troll will get you caught and banned fast that doesn't happen here. There's another board I'm on where a guy was a regular poster and he kept making stupid threads to get a rise out of people then laugh. Some called him a troll come to cause trouble, but I could tell all along he was a regular poster who was messing with people. I've been on enough boards to tell. I am almost always right. I was one of the first to figure out the "Fake Edge" scandal too

Other reasons for alters, most of them not bad:

fun playing around names- you will usually know who these are, such as Melon's "whoretenses"

Embarrassed yourself under your other name but want to keep posting

people hate you under your other name

too insecure to maintain only one name and accept being liked/disliked as a real person

got sick of your original name or it no longer suits you/think of a name you like better and wish you'd used it

forgot your sign in info and lost the old email it was in

forgot your old name from 2001

wanted to have a different identity/hide from enemies or acquaitences who have labeled you a certain way (which does no good if you give yourself away)AKA "Fresh start"

trying to make it look as if more people share your view (as I suspect in these hung up on Pop threads) I have seen this get utterly ridiculous when people quote and agree with themselves.

Yes, I do believe the majority of regular posters here have alters of some type. No I don't believe the number of registered users are all real individuals.

 

[U2Kitten]

Again, show me anywhere in this thread where someone wanted them to be the same as 9 years ago.

Even if it's the 'attitude' as you said in one post, it's still longing for the band to revert to something they no longer are.

 

[rjhbonovox]

No way, don't look at it like that. Most of us hate How to Dismantle because it's a piece of crap. Seriously, that album is a such an abberation on U2's career.

Yeah but at least it will be remembered as the worse album of their careers, or maybe the next one will?

 

[Chizip]

Just to be clear the intent of this thread wasn't to be a ATYCLB/HTDAAB bashing thread, and I don't agree with those past couple comments.

In fact I think HTDAAB is one of U2's best records.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Vertigo is one of U2's greatest songs.

 

[rjhbonovox]

Vertigo is one of U2's greatest songs.

Mmmm not sure about that. But each to his/her own I suppose. I think can name at least 20 songs that I prefer by U2 if not more.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

Mmmm not sure about that. But each to his/her own I suppose. I think can name at least 20 songs that I prefer by U2 if not more.

See, I felt the same with the whole "Mmmm not sure" thing but U2 really seems to support this song or believe in it. They play it A LOT! Hell, they're playing it 2X in one concert!

After seeing them play it on the videos for Live 8, Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame, etc... that song gets the crowd moving and gets huge pop consistently. To me that's actually a plus for the song! It just maybe one of the greatest U2 songs ever.

 

[AtomicBono]

And just because there are people that disagree with you doesn't mean it is only one person with many alters. The fact that you use alters doesn't mean the rest of us do.

Agreed, I really don't believe a third of the users are alters. That'd madness. It could just be that a semi-large group of people happen to disagree with you, is that so hard to believe? Even with the so-called "alters" I wouldn't say there is a LARGE group of people that disagree.

Anyone who would make another name to try and get a point across is dumb.

Popmartijn, I was going to post that exact quote!! Got Mojo yesterday I think that Larry saying there is going to be more experimentation is a very good sign indeed.

 

[U2Kitten]

uh, when I was talking about alters I wasn't just talking about this subject, or people discussing only one subject. I was talking about in general, and not only on this website. It's been going on all over since the days of the BBS boards of the late 80's. It's not a strange thing at all. Most people who deny the existence of alters are only doing so to hide their own, or they are completely naive.

But as far as this particular subject goes, I've seen quite a bit and am convinced that Mr. Brau is indeed correct.

 

[MrBrau1]

uh, when I was talking about alters I wasn't just talking about this subject, or people discussing only one subject. I was talking about in general, and not only on this website. It's been going on all over since the days of the BBS boards of the late 80's. It's not a strange thing at all. Most people who deny the existence of alters are only doing so to hide their own, or they are completely naive.

But as far as this particular subject goes, I've seen quite a bit and am convinced that Mr. Brau is indeed correct.

Why would someone use an alternate name? So they can post something, then respond in agreement with the alter?

HOLY SHIT! I thought simply posting here was lame, but creating fake people to back your opinions is INSANE!

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

U2Kitten, enough with the lecture already. you of all people should not be lecturing people on this subject.

 

[RocknRollKitty]

Originally posted by Mr. Brau

HOLY SHIT! I thought simply posting here was lame, but creating fake people to back your opinions is INSANE!

I completely agree with U2Kitten

U2Kitten, enough with the lecture already. you of all people should not be lecturing people on this subject.

And you never saw me denying it did you? When he accused me, I said yes, takes one to know one! Okay so let's just leave it that some people have more than one name

Good night!