Songs of Ascent: the lost album

[U2girl]

How about; here is some undeniably great music that was not compromised by a want to be loved by stupid asshole kids who are and will be indifferent?

Yes, I am talking about a creative direction.
I don't care if it's influenced by lounge music, hip-hop, country or death metal, until they stop trying to appease the poppy heads, they'll be hindered by an inconsistent creative focus. Because they aren't really, at their core, part of that shit. They like catchy music and always have but there's a difference between writing a catchy song naturally and totally contriving to do so. (This has to be a rockin' 45!) Maybe they covet this sort of thing, but it's not really them. And it obviously doesn't help to be aging in an extremely image conscious (now more than ever) arena and pretending like you're an exception to the rule.

Well, all that and still having Larry as their drummer can't help.

Well, what defines great (ie we want this on the record) music for all four guys in the band ? It may change over time - and it probably has for U2 in the 30 years ... and maybe with the mileage and experience the craft gets more in the music as opposed to instinct.

The whole single/pop music angle was good (and I appreciate the ambition to have a match with the younger generation, though the execution can be debatable), and it worked well, for ATYCLB (an album equally important for their career as AB was). Mature pop album, and something fresh after the 90's had burned out in their minds. I feel HTDAAB and NLOTH didn't really have a chance to have nearly as good a developed angle (one being a retro album, but without a real theme, and the other being all over the place sonically, even if it is their best album in a long while). They do need to get out of the singles hunt (they were very lucky as it is with BD and Vertigo), but it feels like they haven't yet settled on the direction. Maybe the lukewarm reception of NLOTH will give them the nudge.

It's really down to Bono and Edge. The former delivered on NLOTH with the vocals and in-character writing (and I liked hearing he has a clear lyrical idea for SOA...), while the former is stuck in either a chime or a cliche rock riff he can't get out of.

 

[Registered Dude]

It's really down to Bono and Edge. The former delivered on NLOTH with the vocals and in-character writing (and I liked hearing he has a clear lyrical idea for SOA...), while the former is stuck in either a chime or a cliche rock riff he can't get out of.

I know you're not a big fan of Edge's sound as of recent, but this is a bit harsh.

 

[ozeeko]

It's no secret that Edge's sound has gotten a bit old. I don't know what they would've accomplished on NLOTH without Eno and Lanois there to shake things up.

 

[BVS]

U2girl, Ozeeko can you name me any other guitarist that you think changes it up more?

Every guitarist I can think of has about 2 or 3(and those are the good ones) fall back sounds that they rely on, but maybe I'm not listening to the same music as you guys.

Anyone care to help me out?

 

[Registered Dude]

some guitarists rely on distortion, edge prefers delay. I don't think we're going to hear a change in that.

 

[Registered Dude]

U2girl, Ozeeko can you name me any other guitarist that you think changes it up more?

Every guitarist I can think of has about 2 or 3(and those are the good ones) fall back sounds that they rely on, but maybe I'm not listening to the same music as you guys.

Anyone care to help me out?

like

 

[ozeeko]

U2girl, Ozeeko can you name me any other guitarist that you think changes it up more?

Every guitarist I can think of has about 2 or 3(and those are the good ones) fall back sounds that they rely on, but maybe I'm not listening to the same music as you guys.

Anyone care to help me out?

To my ears it sounds very stock and phoned in, much of what he's done lately. Sure he uses delay, that's his thing. I'm not saying he should re-invent the wheel and come up with an entirely new sound. But the songwriting is another thing altogether. I'm not sure what Edge has brought to the table, but without Eno and Lanois, I wonder if MOS would have ever happened. That song is great, but the Edge might as well have been a session musician on it. As well as most of the other songs I like. When Edge does take the wheel and drives a song, it sounds like just some more of the dad-rock riffing he came up with on HTDAAB. I think he's a little uninspired lately...then again what the hell do i know?

To answer your question, I'm not going to say that Edge isn't one of the best guitarists of all time, he's just gotta get over this dad-rock thing, and if that's not possible, then he's just another example of a once-great guitarist past his creative prime.

 

[U2girl]

Of course we all like the delay.

But how many more variations on Walk on Crumbs Electrical Storm Unknown Caller can there be ?

Or City of blinding lights Magnificent ?

Either that or it's cliche rock time; Elevation goes into Vertigo bouncing into Get on your boots.

edit: and since we're at it, one of the more noticed similarities is of course the riff of NLOTH and The Fly.

 

[BVS]

To my ears it sounds very stock and phoned in, much of what he's done lately. Sure he uses delay, that's his thing. I'm not saying he should re-invent the wheel and come up with an entirely new sound. But the songwriting is another thing altogether. I'm not sure what Edge has brought to the table, but without Eno and Lanois, I wonder if MOS would have ever happened. That song is great, but the Edge might as well have been a session musician on it. As well as most of the other songs I like. When Edge does take the wheel and drives a song, it sounds like just some more of the dad-rock riffing he came up with on HTDAAB. I think he's a little uninspired lately...then again what the hell do i know?

To answer your question, I'm not going to say that Edge isn't one of the best guitarists of all time, he's just gotta get over this dad-rock thing, and if that's not possible, then he's just another example of a once-great guitarist past his creative prime.

So this is more about his writing rather than his sound? Well that's a little different than what u2girl is arguing I guess.

I'm not sure what makes a song dad rock so I can't comment about that. I think Edge came up with great guitar work on this album. He was great on the end of MOS, for those that actually play, Boots is a nicely written riff, Unknown Caller, NLOTH all great tunes...

 

[BVS]

Of course we all like the delay.

But how many more variations on Walk on Crumbs Electrical Storm Unknown Caller can there be ?

Or City of blinding lights Magnificent ?

Either that or it's cliche rock time; Elevation goes into Vertigo bouncing into Get on your boots.

Listen to Pearl Jam, Zeppelin, REM, Smiths, etc etc and you can make all the same type of comparisons.

To say Elevation > Vertigo > Boots is just lazy, and it makes me wonder

Vertigo and Boots are the only real riff based songs that U2 have written, so I can see where those not really having a music background can say they are similar, but Elevation? Listen to Elevation again.

This argument is very akin to having a riff based band that writes a few acoustic songs and lumping all those together because they only have a few of them.

 

[U2girl]

Yes, I know. A band tends to have their own style. Not the point at all.

I wouldn't even put Elevation there but I have seen album reviewer or two mention that link (and a few U2 fans, but anyway). Vertigo and Boots sticks though.

And changing it up in the past is exactly the point. He's not doing it now, in fact he hasn't for about two albums now.

eta: a riff based band that writes a few acoustic songs and lumping all those together because they only have a few of them. I can only respond to this one with something you know so well

 

[The_Edge89]

I think he's a little uninspired lately...then again what the hell do i know?

I actually thought No Line On The Horizon offered a couple of new colours on Edge's palette as Bono describes it.

The opening track has the Supersonic Fuzz Gun-pedal and there are a couple other Death By Audio pedals on this album but I can't remember on what songs. All of these recommended by Ben Curtis who at the time were associated with The Secret Machines (He's currently with School of Seven Bells) who were also involved in the soundtrack for Across The Universe. I think it's great that he takes an interest in what other people use to create their sounds.

Get On Your Boots has a pretty mad guitar sound as well, the sub-octave fuzz was something new for The Edge to use if I'm not mistaken? The sub-octave sound return for the intros of Magnificent and I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight (Studio versions).

Dallas invented the siren middle-eight for Stand Up Comedy, which was used for Vertigo on the current tour.

The mandolin on White As Snow is also a new to Edge if you don't count the Chilean Charango he played on the Vertigo Tour which is similar in sound at least.

The last decade we've seen Edge incorporate more slide guitar in his playing (Kite, City of Blinding Lights, Moment of Surrender) and he also experimented with reverse delay for One and City Of Blinding Lights on the Vertigo Tour.

Sure, it's not as mad inventions as the bagpipe-from-hell/747 sound for Gone and MOFO but still....

 

[God Part III]

Of course we all like the delay.

But how many more variations on Walk on Crumbs Electrical Storm Unknown Caller can there be ?

Or City of blinding lights Magnificent ?

Either that or it's cliche rock time; Elevation goes into Vertigo bouncing into Get on your boots.

edit: and since we're at it, one of the more noticed similarities is of course the riff of NLOTH and The Fly.

I don't think this post works. The forementioned songs don't sound alike at all, save for maybe GOYB/Vertigo and Crumbs/Walk On.

 

[BVS]

Yes, I know. A band tends to have their own style. Not the point at all.

I wouldn't even put Elevation there but I have seen album reviewer or two mention that link (and a few U2 fans, but anyway). Vertigo and Boots sticks though.

And changing it up in the past is exactly the point. He's not doing it now, in fact he hasn't for about two albums now.

How can you say that?

You found one comparison that YOU think sticks and maybe a few others, so that = not "changing it up"?

Once again I ask you to put it in context with U2 of the past and other bands.

Give me examples of someone who "changes it up".

 

[Swan269]

the only person who I can think of that kind of changes it up sometimes is DMB? acoustic to electric in style? dunno pretty rare.

 

[U2girl]

I am not the only one noticing Vertigo/Boots (album reviewers, media...). The other comparisons have been noted on this forum, for that matter. But anyway...

Yes, Edge = not changing it up. Another thing others in this forum - and album reviewers - have picked up on, as well.

U2's context is pretty obvious - changing it up for his entire career. The last two albums, not so much. The band has even been on record saying they want to get back to a more vintage Edge sound after Pop.


We're not talking about other bands. Irrelevant.

 

[ozeeko]

I actually thought No Line On The Horizon offered a couple of new colours on Edge's palette as Bono describes it.

The opening track has the Supersonic Fuzz Gun-pedal and there are a couple other Death By Audio pedals on this album but I can't remember on what songs. All of these recommended by Ben Curtis who at the time were associated with The Secret Machines (He's currently with School of Seven Bells) who were also involved in the soundtrack for Across The Universe. I think it's great that he takes an interest in what other people use to create their sounds.

Get On Your Boots has a pretty mad guitar sound as well, the sub-octave fuzz was something new for The Edge to use if I'm not mistaken? The sub-octave sound return for the intros of Magnificent and I'll Go Crazy If I Don't Go Crazy Tonight (Studio versions).

Dallas invented the siren middle-eight for Stand Up Comedy, which was used for Vertigo on the current tour.

The mandolin on White As Snow is also a new to Edge if you don't count the Chilean Charango he played on the Vertigo Tour which is similar in sound at least.

The last decade we've seen Edge incorporate more slide guitar in his playing (Kite, City of Blinding Lights, Moment of Surrender) and he also experimented with reverse delay for One and City Of Blinding Lights on the Vertigo Tour.

Sure, it's not as mad inventions as the bagpipe-from-hell/747 sound for Gone and MOFO but still....

I think the overall sound on a number of songs off NLOTH is inspired, but honestly, I'm hard pressed to recall any moment off the record where Edge is really shining. It's just all very adequate. Like I said before, without Eno and Lanois providing the ideas and atmosphere, I wonder what would have occured without their guidance. (even Adam kinda steps up...Larry just does what's expected of him really, but whatever, he never was the main draw so why start complaining now). But Edge doesn't really deliver anything. Once again, it's just run of the mill. And that doesn't mean he has to play lightning fast solos and rock out to the fullest, even sonically I can't really find anything that great or interesting. Honestly, the only moments where Edge kinda stands out is the brief solo during Magnificent and the descending scales he plays during the last 20 seconds of MOS. Elsewhere, it might as well be a different guitarist. These are for the songs I like!

I don't think he does anything worth returning to on the title track. Bono's singing and Eno's keyboards are what make it interesting, while the Edge peters out during the choruses, and the verses just sound dull to me. Big wall of sound, but not a very interesting wall of sound. Just kinda, i dunno, blobish and sluggish. It doesn't fill me with tension.

UC is an alright song, but Edge relies on the Walk On chiming that is past the point of being stale.

F-BB has a nice groove, but what makes it interesting is the beat, Eno's keyboards, and Bono's vocals. Edge could've made that song soar! But the way it stands, it's just a mediocre guitar part.

As for the tunes I don't like, this is where Edge is really hamming it up and driving the song. Unfortunately, it just sounds very familiar and...to put it bluntly...boring. Like outtakes from the HTDAAB sessions.

It's one thing to sound effortless and awesome, yet another thing to sound like you're not even really trying.

Now this doesn't mean I think Edge is horrible human being, haha. He can still play the classics with skill, and can, on rare occasions, play an interesting part. I think he's just in a creative slump, personally.

 

[BVS]

I
Yes, Edge = not changing it up. Another thing others in this forum - and album reviewers - have picked up on, as well.

U2's context is pretty obvious - changing it up for his entire career. The last two albums, not so much. The band has been on record saying they want to get back to a more vintage Edge sound after Pop.

I
We're not talking about other bands. Irrelevant.

No, but I just wanted some context as to what you thought was a guitarist that changed it up, you seem to have a hard time really explaining your thoughts other than, "others hear it as well".

Has Edge changed it up throughout his career, of course, has he also held on to some similarities throughout his career, hell yes.

You can hear traces of Boy on October, October on War. UF on JT. AB on Zooropa. And if you really know what you are talking about you can point out similaries between JT and AB, or Pop on NLOTH.

So, I guess if we look at this in the overall context we can conclude that Edge is being well

EDGE.

Why the hell can't he change it up?

 

[BVS]

UC is an alright song, but Edge relies on the Walk On chiming that is past the point of being stale.

This is the part that bugs me and why I keep up bringing other guitarists.

I wonder if you would say Page relies on the distortion that is past the point of stale?

And just fill in the underlined parts with these words:

Buck - jangly guitar

Johnny Marr - arpeggios

Gossard - distortion

and the list goes on and on and on...

 

[U2DMfan]

Well, what defines great (ie we want this on the record) music for all four guys in the band ? It may change over time - and it probably has for U2 in the 30 years ... and maybe with the mileage and experience the craft gets more in the music as opposed to instinct.

This is just the problem with the band. Some members of the band define "great music" as being qualified by how successful it is. If it's commercially and critically successful they feel justified in their own work, if it's not an over-the-moon success in both of those aspects, they start excuse making.

To be brutally honest, it's sort of pathetic.
Given how incredibly successful and well loved they are, to be so creatively insecure after all these years. That or just incredibly egotistical and/or vain.

They do need to get out of the singles hunt (they were very lucky as it is with BD and Vertigo), but it feels like they haven't yet settled on the direction. Maybe the lukewarm reception of NLOTH will give them the nudge.

I feel like this is never going to happen. Why would their personal reaction to NLOTH (forget ours) cause them to take a different approach outside of the methods that are proven to give them what they want?

They, IMO, will end up blaming NLOTH's supposed lack of success on the idea that they didn't have enough hits. Isn't that essentially what they've already said? History just keeps repeating itself with this band. I don't mean to sound cynical, it's just what I believe is the reality of the situation.

It's really down to Bono and Edge. The former delivered on NLOTH with the vocals and in-character writing (and I liked hearing he has a clear lyrical idea for SOA...), while the former is stuck in either a chime or a cliche rock riff he can't get out of.

I think Bono, with some exceptions, basically brought the goods on NLOTH.
His voice sounds good and he wrote 7 or 8 really solid songs. Not much more you can ask, besides maybe he brings his voice again and can manage to write 9 or 10 solid songs (lyrics) the next time around. But IMO, it was Bono's best album since POP.

Edge, I can't totally disagree but as you and I have talked about for years around here, I think Edge's songwriting is hindered by having to please the banal taste of the rhythm section. That said, it doesn't excuse going back to the same guitar tone on every other song.

Adam and Larry add almost nothing creatively to the band but a burden (or a bar) to be met. And since Edge will carry the bulk of songwriting tasks, he'll shoulder a lot of that blame. This is why Eno and Lanois make them better, it broadens the songwriting palette.

In the end, I basically agree. It has to be Bono and Edge that win out.
They are the creative engine of the band.

 

[ozeeko]

This is the part that bugs me and why I keep up bringing other guitarists.

I wonder if you would say Page relies on the distortion that is past the point of stale?

And just fill in the underlined parts with these words:

Buck - jangly guitar

Johnny Marr - arpeggios

Gossard - distortion

and the list goes on and on and on...

What can I say? I'm sorry you feel this way...

 

[BVS]

What can I say? I'm sorry you feel this way...

It's not a matter of "feeling this way", it's a matter of just knowing guitarists

 

[ozeeko]

It's not a matter of "feeling this way", it's a matter of just knowing guitarists

I know who those guitarists are. Oh, do you mean like personally do i know them?

 

[U2DMfan]

I'm not sure what makes a song dad rock so I can't comment about that.

Totally subjective.
Here's my opinion on U2 as it relates to their recent dad rock.

Imagine four lily-white, almost 50, rock stars, dressed in their sunglasses and leather, churning out a pseudo R+B/funk song that while sounding like something that could have been written in the 1970's rather than 2008, tries to pass itself off as fresh and soul inspired, rather than the bland milquetoast stale Old Man rock that it is. In other words, it's supposed to be rockin' but it's a fucking embarrassing snoozefest.

Imagine that or listen to Stand Up Comedy.

Or instead of pseudo R+B funk, try imagining classic bluesy rock, the likes of which every human with a set of ears and a love for rock music has heard if they've been alive within the last 40 years. And then chug it along at a slow pace so your drummer, bassist and guitarist can hit their marks, so your singer can get out another set of laundry list verses spat out, throw that on an album that was supposed to be slightly innovative and it's contrasts as being desperate in trying to find new blood in an arena that is way, way, way, way, way beyond saturated. White bands have been playing bluesy rock for years, sometimes with incredible results, but when this old band who's never done it much, tries to do it, it's stale, sluggish and while certainly not terrible, is incredibly 'out of step. Good but boring. Unremarkable, barely noticeable.

Imagine that or listen to Breathe.

It's "dad rock" in the sense that only your dad would find it cool.
Not that anyone couldn't find it to be good, or enjoyable but that it would pass for anything remotely pushing a creative edge.

 

[ozeeko]

Totally subjective.
Here's my opinion on U2 as it relates to their recent dad rock.

Imagine four lily-white, almost 50, rock stars, dressed in their sunglasses and leather, churning out a pseudo R+B/funk song that while sounding like something that could have been written in the 1970's rather than 2008, tries to pass itself off as fresh and soul inspired, rather than the bland milquetoast stale Old Man rock that it is. In other words, it's supposed to be rockin' but it's a fucking embarrassing snoozefest.

Imagine that or listen to Stand Up Comedy.

Or instead of pseudo R+B funk, try imagining classic bluesy rock, the likes of which every human with a set of ears and a love for rock music has heard if they've been alive within the last 40 years. And then chug it along at a slow pace so your drummer, bassist and guitarist can hit their marks, so your singer can get out another set of laundry list verses spat out, throw that on an album that was supposed to be slightly innovative and it's contrasts as being desperate in trying to find new blood in an arena that is way, way, way, way, way beyond saturated. White bands have been playing bluesy rock for years, sometimes with incredible results, but when this old band who's never done it much, tries to do it, it's stale, sluggish and while certainly not terrible, is incredibly 'out of step. Good but boring. Unremarkable, barely noticeable.

Imagine that or listen to Breathe.

You left out:

Imagine Vertigo or listen to GOYB.
Imagine Walk On or listen to UC.

 

[corianderstem]

Edit: Ehhhhh, never mind.

 

[ozeeko]

Haha, sorry, 30 minutes later and that joke didn't really hold up.

To be fair, Edge does redeem himself in UC with the ending solo.

 

[digitize]

I just hate U2 in general. I don't know why I registered here in the first place.

 

[Salome]

maybe if they'd let Flood fiddle with Edge's guitar sound and rape the rest of the track it would sound fresh and like a sonically inspired attempt to urinate over all avarage music listeners

 

[BVS]

I know who those guitarists are. Oh, do you mean like personally do i know them?

So, then you know they do the same thing you accuse Edge of doing?

I'm glad we're on the same page.