Songs of Ascent: the lost album

[lazarus]

Wow, I really disagree here.
Remember what they closed with during Vertigo?

That crap doesn't count. But yeah, that was colossally lame.

 

[U2387]

Aren't we all forgetting about 360 which will probably go down as the largest grossing tour of all time if it's extended. To me that is being relevant and if they put out a hugely popular album at the end of the year, they'll be at one of the high points in their career again. A good album with a good theme (how NLOTH should have been all the way through!) and it'll buy them another couple years to put out the next, then the next then who knows. Eventually they'll stop trying to please the teenie boppers and gracefully ride it out.

If they can still produce a FEROCIOUS tune like MOS, they can keep the fire burning!

I call the lack of NLOTH success (a major success by most band's standards) a true anomaly of poor timing, poor economy and poor lead single for god sakes!

This

Thank you for the much needed injection of sense!

U2 is not stuck anywhere or soul searching or anything like that.

Combine your post with the suggestions that NLOTH should have been the 1st single and there is the answer.

Its not too hard.

U2 annoys me as much as any of you with some of their decisions(no innovative release strategies, too much ATYCLB on 360) but there is no crisis of faith, confidence or any kind of general malaise or whatever Jimmy Carteresque term we want to use with U2!

 

[U2387]

That crap doesn't count. But yeah, that was colossally lame.

40
Vertigox2
All I Want Is You
Bad/40
Kite
One Tree Hill

I'll take some more of that lame!

As for MOS closing, I could take it or leave it, its not Love is Blindness or 40 in the 80s or Walk On 2001, but its not bad at all.

 

[lazarus]

Sorry, misread your post. I was only referring to Vertigo x2. The other closers I didn't have a problem with, and I thought were all better finales than MOS.

I don't think Kite and One Tree Hill closed enough to really use those as examples. Those were special occasion novelties.

 

[The_Edge89]

Lanois is apparently going to produce Brandon Flowers' solo album, so still no time for U2 it seems...

Flowers also recruited three top notch producers for Flamingo: Daniel Lanois (U2, Brian Eno, Neil Young), Stuart Price (The Killers, Madonna, Kylie Minogue), and Brendan O’Brien (Pearl Jam, Bruce Springsteen), who produced three songs.

Source: Brandon Flowers Taps Jenny Lewis for Solo Debut | Spin Magazine Online

 

[corianderstem]

I have mixed feelings about MOS as a closer. Personally, I like a fast song to close the show, as it leaves me all pumped up and excited.

MOS is a great song, and I liked it live, but I think they'd do better with a more well-known song if they don't want people streaming towards the exit to beat the rush.

 

[Utoo]

I felt like the placement of MOS as a closer was designed to mimic LIB, but failed. With LIB, it was a downer of a way to end, but perfectly matched to the theme of ZooTV, the character of MacPhisto (when used), and the theme of all of Achtung Baby. With MOS, it doesn't fit the show at all; it doesn't make a statement that can be tied into the show, and it's not as successful a closer as other non-thematic endings (bad, 40, etc). One could argue that "moment" fits with the notion of time used throughout the show, and I could buy that. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily successful just because of that, as I would argue that the whole use of time as a ploy was unneccessarily contrived to fit the brief time nods in Breathe and UC, as well as the mechanic nature of the stage.

In a way, I feel like MOS had to be used as a closer, because I don't know how well it would work in the middle of the show. If you look at how IGWSHA was used in some PopMart shows, it stops the show altogether. Watching some bootleg PopMart DVDs, you get a sense of creepy poignancy from it that kind of matches the feeling of both PopMart and Pop. I'm not sure if that effect was achieved in person at the live show---kind of like how YBR will probably work great on DVD, but fell flat about half the time on this tour. I don't know if MOS in mid-show would succeed or kill the momentum.

Ultimately, LIB let the air out of the show, but left you with something to think about. For me, MOS let the air out of the show, and left you simply walking to your car.

 

[corianderstem]

I agree about MOS not working elsewhere in the show.

 

[zoocarolina]

... and who's most recent tour would they be passing?

The Police and Madonna and if the tour is extended they could take on The Rolling Stones #1 spot, but that would be a chore.

 

[zoocarolina]

This

Thank you for the much needed injection of sense!

U2 is not stuck anywhere or soul searching or anything like that.

Combine your post with the suggestions that NLOTH should have been the 1st single and there is the answer.

Its not too hard.

U2 annoys me as much as any of you with some of their decisions(no innovative release strategies, too much ATYCLB on 360) but there is no crisis of faith, confidence or any kind of general malaise or whatever Jimmy Carteresque term we want to use with U2!

Thanks, shocking to find someone who actually agrees with the basics that I presented I'm just surprised there's not more hype for this leg considering it's been months since the last show.

 

[corianderstem]

I think the hype has been projected into the frustration/ants-in-pants over SOA.

 

[zoocarolina]

I felt like the placement of MOS as a closer was designed to mimic LIB, but failed. With LIB, it was a downer of a way to end, but perfectly matched to the theme of ZooTV, the character of MacPhisto (when used), and the theme of all of Achtung Baby. With MOS, it doesn't fit the show at all; it doesn't make a statement that can be tied into the show, and it's not as successful a closer as other non-thematic endings (bad, 40, etc). One could argue that "moment" fits with the notion of time used throughout the show, and I could buy that. I wouldn't say that it's necessarily successful just because of that, as I would argue that the whole use of time as a ploy was unneccessarily contrived to fit the brief time nods in Breathe and UC, as well as the mechanic nature of the stage.

In a way, I feel like MOS had to be used as a closer, because I don't know how well it would work in the middle of the show. If you look at how IGWSHA was used in some PopMart shows, it stops the show altogether. Watching some bootleg PopMart DVDs, you get a sense of creepy poignancy from it that kind of matches the feeling of both PopMart and Pop. I'm not sure if that effect was achieved in person at the live show---kind of like how YBR will probably work great on DVD, but fell flat about half the time on this tour. I don't know if MOS in mid-show would succeed or kill the momentum.

Ultimately, LIB let the air out of the show, but left you with something to think about. For me, MOS let the air out of the show, and left you simply walking to your car.

Have to agree that MOS had to be the closer, but disagree and felt it was a great closer and one that could be extended and then just fade away, I think 40 would have worked great after MOS, but technically 40 would work great closing any show!

 

[zoocarolina]

I think the hype has been projected into the frustration/ants-in-pants over SOA.

But that's super U2 fan internal hype, where's the casual fan mass marketing hype to say we're back or even a little single to plug the fact that we're baaacckkkk!!

 

[corianderstem]

Oh, gotcha. Good question!

 

[U2387]

Thanks, shocking to find someone who actually agrees with the basics that I presented I'm just surprised there's not more hype for this leg considering it's been months since the last show.

You are welcome!

To me, its pretty straightforward.

1.)The success of 360 proves they are still not only relevant, but massively popular. There has been so much talk along the lines of "do we play to the kids or say f the kids" in order to appeal to them. I have an answer for that! Its not an issue!! "The kids" are going to the shows from what I see. So are the adults, its the usual U2 mix.

I am trying to think of the other 50 yr old band who has shattered attendance records in stadiums in the past. Give me a LONG while to think.......

2.)That to me indicates that it was a timing/promotional issue with NLOTH. Promotional includes both the choice of and lack of promotion for GOYB. I understand they were all over BBC and Letterman as the album came out, but where were they to tell us they had a new single?

------------------------------------------------------------------
A question: Did some/most here just forget that U2 is probably going to have the highest grossing tour ever with 360? That more people saw them by far than saw any other band, including on fire massive 2008/9 darlings Coldplay? Did some just forget that in 2009, U2 gave us what we mostly agree was a great album with some of their most interesting material in 10/15/20 years?

It was not the Crazy Boots Comedy trio that killed this album nor was it a pulling back toward the center from the original brilliance or anything else that is spouted here routinely. It was promoting and timing, pure and simple.

People can be successful in down economies, so basically, it was the U2 management team that screwed up! So now all of you who deride Paul "McGuine$$," do you actually think he will let it happen again? NO. Guaranteed, they'll do it right this time and have the usual commercial success by U2 standards.

They know what they are doing and they don't take failure(a relative term here) lightly. Rare mistakes in the past have led to learning and rebounds. The same will happen. It is really that simple.

 

[lazarus]

Source: Brandon Flowers Taps Jenny Lewis

Son of a...

I felt like the placement of MOS as a closer was designed to mimic LIB, but failed.

In a way, I feel like MOS had to be used as a closer, because I don't know how well it would work in the middle of the show.

I don't know if MOS in mid-show would succeed or kill the momentum.

Ultimately, LIB let the air out of the show, but left you with something to think about. For me, MOS let the air out of the show, and left you simply walking to your car.

I agree about MOS not working elsewhere in the show.

The thing is, there aren't just two choices; end of the show or middle of the show. Don't forget, there are three "last songs": the first set closer, the second set closer, AND the final encore closer. I don't think MOS works as the last thing people hear before they leave the venue, but it certainly would be a something appropriate for the end of the main set or the last song before the final encore.

 

[Niceman]

You are welcome!

To me, its pretty straightforward.

1.)The success of 360 proves they are still not only relevant, but massively popular. There has been so much talk along the lines of "do we play to the kids or say f the kids" in order to appeal to them. I have an answer for that! Its not an issue!! "The kids" are going to the shows from what I see. So are the adults, its the usual U2 mix.

I am trying to think of the other 50 yr old band who has shattered attendance records in stadiums in the past. Give me a LONG while to think.......

2.)That to me indicates that it was a timing/promotional issue with NLOTH. Promotional includes both the choice of and lack of promotion for GOYB. I understand they were all over BBC and Letterman as the album came out, but where were they to tell us they had a new single?

------------------------------------------------------------------
A question: Did some/most here just forget that U2 is probably going to have the highest grossing tour ever with 360? That more people saw them by far than saw any other band, including on fire massive 2008/9 darlings Coldplay? Did some just forget that in 2009, U2 gave us what we mostly agree was a great album with some of their most interesting material in 10/15/20 years?

It was not the Crazy Boots Comedy trio that killed this album nor was it a pulling back toward the center from the original brilliance or anything else that is spouted here routinely. It was promoting and timing, pure and simple.

People can be successful in down economies, so basically, it was the U2 management team that screwed up! So now all of you who deride Paul "McGuine$$," do you actually think he will let it happen again? NO. Guaranteed, they'll do it right this time and have the usual commercial success by U2 standards.

They know what they are doing and they don't take failure(a relative term here) lightly. Rare mistakes in the past have led to learning and rebounds. The same will happen. It is really that simple.

Excellent post!

 

[Utoo]

The thing is, there aren't just two choices; end of the show or middle of the show. Don't forget, there are three "last songs": the first set closer, the second set closer, AND the final encore closer. I don't think MOS works as the last thing people hear before they leave the venue, but it certainly would be a something appropriate for the end of the main set or the last song before the final encore.

I can see that

 

[ascender_RS]

Highest grossing tour is all well and good, i'm pleased for them, really I am. I'm also aware that they're still very much relevant after so many years which is practically unheard of these days, particularly the fact that they're still releasing new music.

I just wish they'd be a bit more brave and spontaneous when it came to releasing material. Biggest grossing tour on the back of a poorly judged promotional campaign says to me they can take some more risks with their music. Or even just use the new distribution methods available to them to get music out there to the fans. We keep getting told that there's no money to be made from albums, so its strange that U2 haven't used the opportunity to break free from the 3 years to make an album, single, album, tour, break cycle. Why not release some material (new EP, b-sides, demos etc) direct to fans, fan-club members etc?

But then of course there's the very real possibility that their fixation with singles means that the days of experimentation are over.

All just my opinion. Obviously i'd rather there was any U2 music than none at all, but as I've said before, the most exciting period of being a fan for me was during the AB, Zooropa, Pop & Passengers period where they just hit such a creative streak and seemed to want to branch out and push themselves a bit.

 

[phommel]

when you're writing songs about your mac book pro talking to you you're sorta running out of ideas.

I agree with you, that song does not contain his best lyrics!!! (Musically though, I think it's great)

 

[VintagePunk]

.

 

[cseggleton]

i am still amazed after 30 years they can not seem to get the promoting and timing right consistently.

 

[rexstardust]

Yeah, it's almost like they need to fail (again, relative term) in order to kick themselves in the ass again to climb back on top. The sophomore slump of October led to the brilliant "War"... the expansive but coolly received UF led to TJT... the backlash from R&H gave us AB/Zooropa... Whatever happened with Pop and Popmart led to a return-to-basics and a return to the top of the heap with ATYCLB & HTDAAB.

Many of those "missteps" I mentioned are some of our favorite albums but their overall appeal caused some sort of distress within the band. The difference between U2 & nearly everyone else is that they refused to dissolve the band each time and, in fact, turned out (arguably) better records each time.

I happen to love NLOTH but there is, at the very least, frustration among those in the U2 camp about its performance. I am very curious to see how they respond this time... is their drive to "succeed" still in line with their ability to gauge something that will translate into super-mass appeal?

 

[U2girl]

Well, in comparison to the napalm-like flaming from Rattle and Hum and Popmart, the critical reaction to NLOTH is more along the lines of more indifference than outright anti-mood.

 

[lazarus]

I'm not sure they prefer indifference, though, because it hints at irrelevancy.

 

[U2girl]

I know they said they regret not having a single, but there is the bigger question that is underneath, and no doubt on their mind: just what does a rock band have to say in the download/singles era ? A band approaching the big 5-0, where do they have to go from now ?

NLOTH does hint at a band less focused on singles and song collections, but the transition to what's next hasn't happened. I'm not convinced SOA is it, it feels more like NLOTH's Zooropa. If delaying the next album means we will get something really fresh - less chimes, please - so be it.

 

[U2DMfan]

I know they said they regret not having a single, but there is the bigger question that is underneath, and no doubt on their mind: just what does a rock band have to say in the download/singles era ? A band approaching the big 5-0, where do they have to go from now ?

How about; here is some undeniably great music that was not compromised by a want to be loved by stupid asshole kids who are and will be indifferent?

Yes, I am talking about a creative direction.
I don't care if it's influenced by lounge music, hip-hop, country or death metal, until they stop trying to appease the poppy heads, they'll be hindered by an inconsistent creative focus. Because they aren't really, at their core, part of that shit. They like catchy music and always have but there's a difference between writing a catchy song naturally and totally contriving to do so. (This has to be a rockin' 45!) Maybe they covet this sort of thing, but it's not really them. And it obviously doesn't help to be aging in an extremely image conscious (now more than ever) arena and pretending like you're an exception to the rule.

Well, all that and still having Larry as their drummer can't help.

 

[An Cat Gav]

How about; here is some undeniably great music that was not compromised by a want to be loved by stupid asshole kids who are and will be indifferent?

Yes, I am talking about a creative direction.
I don't care if it's influenced by lounge music, hip-hop, country or death metal, until they stop trying to appease the poppy heads, they'll be hindered by an inconsistent creative focus. Because they aren't really, at their core, part of that shit. They like catchy music and always have but there's a difference between writing a catchy song naturally and totally contriving to do so. (This has to be a rockin' 45!) Maybe they covet this sort of thing, but it's not really them. And it obviously doesn't help to be aging in an extremely image conscious (now more than ever) arena and pretending like you're an exception to the rule.

Well, all that and still having Larry as their drummer can't help.

A perfect assessment.

 

[BEAL]

I don't quite get it either. They work in the music industry and should know how radio works. U2 are considered classic rock now. They made a very catchy tune in BD and Vertigo that got played (the latter mainly due to advertising).

I love BD, though i can't listen to it as much because it has been overplayed, but that's more of what i expect if they want to make pop music. Wonderful layers in that song, and does touch up on some of their past success sounds, but still feels like the future.

I do like GOYB, especially the chorus, but i feel like they just stuck with it because they thought it would be a hit. They were wrong. The Edge has always come up with little riffs like GOYB, but my opinion is if he stumbled upon The Fly, they'd turn it more into Vertigo style than what the Fly actually became.

 

[ozeeko]

Yea, the obsession with remaining relevant is what is killing U2 (for me, at least). Maybe they have more fans in the world as a result of HTDAAB and NLOTH, but for hardcore fans quite like myself, I gotta say...my interest in the band is waning. I didn't get into U2 during the mid-90's because I thought "HEY! Now THERE'S a band that is relevant!!!" I got into them because saw 3 videos for U2 on VH1, "With Or Without You", "Mysterious Ways" and "Lemon", and I was floored by their creativity and diversity. That's what they need to solely focus on. Creativity. And I think the whole remaining relevant thing is just another crusade for Bono. He figures while he's saving people from AIDS and poverty, why not save the record industry? Why not save music itself? Why not save the 45? Why not save the concept of the album? Why not save rock and roll?!!?! Bono and the rest of U2 need to stop worrying about their legacy and their relevance and their responsibility to rock music, fans, and industry, and just do what they do best, which is simply WRITE AND RECORD MUSIC!! Enough already with the masses. They need to serve themselves for once and write more personal music. I don't see how that could possibly backfire. Maybe that kid who thinks IGCIIDGCT is their greatest song will be offended, but if that's the case, then what the hell does that kid know anyway?