SOE 32: let there be no leak puns..

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Thanks for posting the article!

Also, David - I posted that same joke on my Twitter and Facebook months ago.

I shall await my royalty check.
 


Couldn't help but notice the album cover similarity.

Also, a relatively obscure band definitely worth checking out...who happened to write one of my favorite songs of all time:



Folks talk about missing the landscapes U2 evoked and their more ethereal sound. I long for the urgency and potentness as well. Hoping for some on SOE!
 
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Headache in a Suitcase said:
Right. MJ was just an innocent victim.
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He made many questionable choices in his life and was far from "normal", but was he guilty of abusing children? From the evidence presented at his trial, the almost laughable testimony of his accuser and the accuser's family and their complete lack of credibility I would say no. One of the many ridiculous claims they made was that MJ held them against their will at Neverland and wouldn't allow them to communicate with anyone, no access to phones, internet etc and used that time to abuse the kid. Even though there was ample evidence showing them going out on expensive shopping trips on their own, spending Jackson's money, leaving his home and returning at various points even when MJ was out of the country. It was ridiculous.

As a result MJ was actually charged with false imprisonment, which was also dismissed by the jury.
 
danm said:
He made many questionable choices in his life and was far from "normal", but was he guilty of abusing children? From the evidence presented at his trial, the almost laughable testimony of his accuser and the accuser's family and their complete lack of credibility I would say no. One of the many ridiculous claims they made was that MJ held them against their will at Neverland and wouldn't allow them to communicate with anyone, no access to phones, internet etc and used that time to abuse the kid. Even though there was ample evidence showing them going out on expensive shopping trips on their own, spending Jackson's money, leaving his home and returning at various points even when MJ was out of the country. It was ridiculous.

As a result MJ was actually charged with false imprisonment, which was also dismissed by the jury.
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Look. Even the Reddit post attempting to defend Jackson as eccentric and misunderstood admits to behavior that would set off big fucking alarms.

Oh, what's wrong with sharing a bed? We just fell asleep playing video games!

Wrong. First, why do you have a child in your bedroom, period? Why, when you've had multiple instances where you've been accused, where you've paid out millions of dollars in hush money, do you even put yourself in that position? You have a giant house. You put the video games in your bedroom. Where you were alone. With children who weren't yours.

Most people who were falsely accused of something would go out if their way to ensure that they never found themselves in a similar situation again. Jackson's behavior was the opposite; it was behavior of someone who felt emboldened that they got away with something.

Whatever the merits of this individual case, whether this mom was a wacko or not... this was a man who was deeply disturbed and at the very least continuously put himself in positions that would set off bright red glaring alarms with anyone who had even the slightest of training in what to look for in regards to child abuse.

Why continue that behavior after being accused before? Why allow a child into your bedroom late at night? Why have the items that a child would find cool in your bedroom in the first place? (What, he couldn't afford two PlayStations? Please)

I'm sure nobody else really cares and this is hardly the forum to hash this out, so I'll stop now (and diemen will likely close the thread as it's past 1000).
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Look. Even the Reddit post attempting to defend Jackson as eccentric and misunderstood admits to behavior that would set off big fucking alarms.

Oh, what's wrong with sharing a bed? We just fell asleep playing video games!

Wrong. First, why do you have a child in your bedroom, period? Why, when you've had multiple instances where you've been accused, where you've paid out millions of dollars in hush money, do you even put yourself in that position? You have a giant house. You put the video games in your bedroom. Where you were alone. With children who weren't yours.

Most people who were falsely accused of something would go out if their way to ensure that they never found themselves in a similar situation again. Jackson's behavior was the opposite; it was behavior of someone who felt emboldened that they got away with something.

Whatever the merits of this individual case, whether this mom was a wacko or not... this was a man who was deeply disturbed and at the very least continuously put himself in positions that would set off bright red glaring alarms with anyone who had even the slightest of training in what to look for in regards to child abuse.

Why continue that behavior after being accused before? Why allow a child into your bedroom late at night? Why have the items that a child would find cool in your bedroom in the first place? (What, he couldn't afford two PlayStations? Please)

I'm sure nobody else really cares and this is hardly the forum to hash this out, so I'll stop now (and diemen will likely close the thread as it's past 1000).
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Hence my point about him making many questionable choices in his life. There's no doubt about that or shying away from that.

However, let's be clear - there was the accusation against Jackson in '93 and then in 2003 that went to trial with the boy who had appeared in the Martin Bashir interview. There were not "multiple" instances of him being accused and paying people off, and the '93 settlement was not "hush" money. That is illegal in itself. The police were investigating Jackson in '93 after the accusation was made and alongside that the father of the kid - who had been recorded months previously btw virtually admitting to his plan to extort Jackson - then sued him for $30million. The result was that a civil case was scheduled before Jackson was even charged with a crime (he was never charged over the '93 accusation incidentally) and the civil trial date set before any potential criminal trial taking place. That is highly prejudicial to a defendant - to have a civil case precede a criminal case due to the far lower burden of proof in a civil case. The law in California was subsequently changed so that a criminal trial had to take place first.

So what Jackson did nearly 6 months after being sued, having a civil trial date set and trying to delay civil proceedings until any potential criminal trial took place, on advice from his attorneys, was to settle the civil lawsuit out of court. It was not hush money, as the boy and his father had every right to continue co-operating with the police, testify against Jackson in any criminal trial and put away this person who allegedly abused his child. The boy's father wanted money from the start - evidenced by the phone call of him that was recorded - he then sued Jackson, confirming what he'd stated he planned to do and then got his money when Jackson ultimately settled. Once they got their money they refused to co-operate with the police any further. People always throw around this "hush" money claim not stopping to think for a moment that paying someone off to not talk to police is a crime in itself. Jackson settled a civil lawsuit, he didn't pay hush money and the police still investigated him for months following that settlement, convened two grand jury's and still didn't end up charging him.

The 2003 case was a joke that should never have gone to trial.

And yes, Jackson should never have shared his room with any child who he wasn't related to, but to be fair to him here he may have claimed in subsequent interviews after 1993 that he didn't see anything wrong with doing so (which I obviously don't agree with), he never actually said that he did share his bed with any other child post-'93.

Anyway, as you say, this is way off topic!
 
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cseggleton said:
I think this strategy is brilliant. Promote the album with weaker songs (not that they are bad) and then get legs for the next 6 months with the stronger stuff
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I know it is wrong to quote your own post but I will....underpromise and then overdeliver...seems like they have!!
 
cseggleton said:
If Red Flag Day is not released as a single it will be criminal!!
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Ugh....you’re making it very difficult for me to hold out and not give in to the dark side and listen to the album!

I’m going to hold off but man do i want to listen and join in the convo :(
 
I didn’t quite get the hype on tracks 6-8 but a better rip me that change my mind. Seriously though, tracks 9-13 are where it’s at. Two albums in a row where they finish off strong.
 
mikal said:
I didn’t quite get the hype on tracks 6-8 but a better rip me that change my mind. Seriously though, tracks 9-13 are where it’s at. Two albums in a row where they finish off strong.
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I haven’t heard 6-8 yet but if they’re better than Blackout and Love is Bigger then they really have a classic on their hands. With that said, I think the transition from Landlady to Blackout is awkward.
 
mikal said:
I didn’t quite get the hype on tracks 6-8 but a better rip me that change my mind. Seriously though, tracks 9-13 are where it’s at. Two albums in a row where they finish off strong.
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So I’ve heard a lot about tracks 6-8 being top notch amongst a couple others but you say 9-13 are very good. So there is potential that the last 8 songs are good!?

How was the quality of the recordings? i ask because I’m curious if the quality and in turn your impressions will improve come next Friday.

This is very exciting!!
 
CosmoKramer said:
So I’ve heard a lot about tracks 6-8 being top notch amongst a couple others but you say 9-13 are very good. So there is potential that the last 8 songs are good!?

How was the quality of the recordings? i ask because I’m curious if the quality and in turn your impressions will improve come next Friday.

This is very exciting!!
Click to expand...



Yeah abs total first impression. And I’ll probably become a big fan of tracks 6-8 with repeated listens. The last 5 though. Very emotional ending.
 
kiwilad said:
Ah man. You're making celibacy difficult
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Lol.....I had dreams about the album, specifically Lights of Home(yet I haven't heard it).


This will be a tough week not giving in AND not being able to participate in the conversations.
 
CosmoKramer said:
So I’ve heard a lot about tracks 6-8 being top notch amongst a couple others but you say 9-13 are very good. So there is potential that the last 8 songs are good!?

How was the quality of the recordings? i ask because I’m curious if the quality and in turn your impressions will improve come next Friday.

This is very exciting!!
Click to expand...

I would say 1-2 and 6-13 are good to great

3 is and will stay meh

4 is ok

5 is ok (IMO)
 
I’m actually disappointed with Little Things. I think it’s the one song on the album that suffers from too much atmospherics. The live version is superior for me with the piano and more of a rugged guitar build up.

I also think that Red Flag Day should have been the follow up track to Love Is All We Have Left. That would be one hell of an opener.

I’ll save that for the alternate track list debate.
 
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CosmoKramer said:
So I’ve heard a lot about tracks 6-8 being top notch amongst a couple others but you say 9-13 are very good. So there is potential that the last 8 songs are good!?

How was the quality of the recordings? i ask because I’m curious if the quality and in turn your impressions will improve come next Friday.

This is very exciting!!
Click to expand...

Tracks 6 through 8 (Summer of Love - Red Flag Day = The Showman) - no worries there. They each have the potential to be great singles. Summer of Love is laced with melancholy and it's one of my favorites. Red Flag Day and the Showman are euphoric and absolutely kill.

Landlady is great too - by no means a weak link.

I am still warming up to Love is Bigger than Anything in its Way. It is epic but perhaps a little dangerously close to Coldplay territory. But my opinion might change with a better quality recording.

Little Things - a late period classic, full stop.
 
Flanagan was Right

Best U2 album in over 25 years and the late period masterpiece every fan was hankering for and every critic was dreading.
 
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