Pop 25th Anniversary Thread... What do you want?

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The Panther said:
I mean, it sold 7 million copies...
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And Popmart was by far the biggest tour that year. Just because about 4 shows in Florida and the US midwest had really bad attendance, the band seems to view it as a failure. I would say they were actually playing to their biggest crowds ever in South/Central America, and parts of Europe.
 
MrPryck2U said:
Right! While 7 million units might have been disappointing to Team U2 (and their fans), it's still not bad sales wise.
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That's worldwide, though?

Achtung Baby sold 7 million in the USA alone.

Zooropa did the same international numbers as Pop but that was considerably less promoted because the band was on tour and it was really a lark to a certain extent.
 
https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/u2-pop-album-anniversary-review-7710077/

While I don't agree with everything in this article, (Velvet Dress, Miami comment) I solidly stand behind this comment:

But if you give Pop a fresh listen (chances are you haven’t in years) and then immediately follow with its successor, the seven-time Grammy Award winner All That You Can’t Leave Behind, ask yourself: Which one feels more interesting? And which is so unobtrusive it’s almost insulting?
 
lazarus said:
That's worldwide, though?

Achtung Baby sold 7 million in the USA alone.

Zooropa did the same international numbers as Pop but that was considerably less promoted because the band was on tour and it was really a lark to a certain extent.
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Yeah, but the standards for "flop" isn't equaling the sales of The Joshua Tree or Achtung Baby.

If you want to talk about a flop, that would be Spice Girl Mel B's second album, L.A. State of Mind (2005), which peaked on the UK chart at #453.
 
Staring at the Sun is definitely in the category for my least fav from the record as well, but I like Edge's distorted guitar that plays over the acoustic, and the other sonics in the background, and Bono's vocal delivery I find quite beguiling. The verses are a lot better than the chorus though.
 
cobl04 said:
Staring at the Sun is definitely in the category for my least fav from the record as well, but I like Edge's distorted guitar that plays over the acoustic, and the other sonics in the background, and Bono's vocal delivery I find quite beguiling. The verses are a lot better than the chorus though.
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There is a LOT to like about SATS, and it is by no means a bad song. Ditto IGWSHA. They both have a lot of cool movement, and sonically there's a lot of (muddy) layers and "ear candy".

I think both suffer from Early-Onset Platitude-ing by Bono, and it dilutes the instrumentals. IGWSHA could use an actual bridge, and SATS could use a more thoughtful chorus, IMHO. One->Sun->Find->Blind... yikes.
 
lazarus said:
"It's the blind leading the blonde/it's the stuff/it's the stuff of country songs" isn't a bridge? Plus the ascending guitar part underneath? I love that part.
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I love that part too, it’s got great tension because it keeps going and Bono ends up sounding like he’s out of breath by the end.

It definitely is a bridge. I just consider it more of an “A Prime” than a “C” in terms of ABACABB formatting, since it’s mostly elaborating on the pre-chorus. That’s not some deep analytical theory or anything, just me kind of shorthanding in my mind.
 
You're right, it's more prominent as a pre-chorus.

But of course, there are plenty of great verse-chorus-verse songs without a bridge. And this one at least shifts gears for the outro when it brings in those electronic pipes and the trip-hop beat.
 
Back in 1997, I didn't like 'Staring At The Sun', as I thought it sounded like a "desperate-for-radio-play" kind of single (little did I know what was coming in years to follow!), and also like an Oasis-copy in terms of the chords and structure.

Later, I grew to appreciate the tune and some of the lyrics in the live, stripped down versions with just the acoustic guitars.

Much later, having heard all versions of it, I went back to Pop and finally realized the original album cut is the best one there has ever been.

I like it. That said, the chorus was far too abstractly metaphorical for mainstream radio, and some of the lyrics, though interesting, don't really make a lot of sense. So, you end up with an otherwise fairly catchy tune where the lyrics are too abstract and obtuse for top-40 radio play but also too unfocused for U2 nerds like us who scrutinize everything.

The band tried to dismiss its mediocre pop-chart showing and fan response with the comment, "Death by mid-tempo".

Even though it wasn't the grand slam the band hoped for, it's still a solid triple, and, if the left fielder commits an error once in a while, maybe an in-the-park home run.

I wish they would do more songs this lyrically ambitious, even if Bono misses in a few lines, it's still more interesting than some of the Hallmark Card-ish stuff they've done in more recent years.
 
The Panther said:
Back in 1997, I didn't like 'Staring At The Sun', as I thought it sounded like a "desperate-for-radio-play" kind of single (little did I know what was coming in years to follow!), and also like an Oasis-copy in terms of the chords and structure.

Later, I grew to appreciate the tune and some of the lyrics in the live, stripped down versions with just the acoustic guitars.

Much later, having heard all versions of it, I went back to Pop and finally realized the original album cut is the best one there has ever been.

I like it. That said, the chorus was far too abstractly metaphorical for mainstream radio, and some of the lyrics, though interesting, don't really make a lot of sense. So, you end up with an otherwise fairly catchy tune where the lyrics are too abstract and obtuse for top-40 radio play but also too unfocused for U2 nerds like us who scrutinize everything.

The band tried to dismiss its mediocre pop-chart showing and fan response with the comment, "Death by mid-tempo".

Even though it wasn't the grand slam the band hoped for, it's still a solid triple, and, if the left fielder commits an error once in a while, maybe an in-the-park home run.

I wish they would do more songs this lyrically ambitious, even if Bono misses in a few lines, it's still more interesting than some of the Hallmark Card-ish stuff they've done in more recent years.
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This is very spot on. I never disliked it. But your take on the song/lyrics/top 40 is so true.
I think the greatness of POP is apparent when a song like SATS is in my bottom half of the tunes on the album.
 
womanfish said:
https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/u2-pop-album-anniversary-review-7710077/

While I don't agree with everything in this article, (Velvet Dress, Miami comment) I solidly stand behind this comment:

But if you give Pop a fresh listen (chances are you haven’t in years) and then immediately follow with its successor, the seven-time Grammy Award winner All That You Can’t Leave Behind, ask yourself: Which one feels more interesting? And which is so unobtrusive it’s almost insulting?
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i get what they're saying in the quote, but i disagree with the whole All That You Can't Leave Behind is "insultingly unobtrusive" line of thought. Both versions of U2 can live next to each other. My issue isn't that they went back to a more mainstream type sound. Those first two post Pop albums were terrific and they should have ZERO regrets about going in that direction. Where they fucked up was with No Line - where they wanted to sway back towards the experimental and pussed out at the last minute.

For me the quote that stands out from that article is this one...

Sure, history has not been so kind to Pop, and dissenters bemoan how contrived it felt for a wildly successful rock band (with members in their mid-30s) attempting to write a techno-inspired album, ostensibly to stay relevant, or just not feel quite so behind the times..
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This sums up U2 in a nutshell. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But every decision, every transition - the good (Achtung Baby), the bad (No Line, the Apple debacle) - were all based around this same idea.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
i get what they're saying in the quote, but i disagree with the whole All That You Can't Leave Behind is "insultingly unobtrusive" line of thought. Both versions of U2 can live next to each other. My issue isn't that they went back to a more mainstream type sound. Those first two post Pop albums were terrific and they should have ZERO regrets about going in that direction. Where they fucked up was with No Line - where they wanted to sway back towards the experimental and pussed out at the last minute.

For me the quote that stands out from that article is this one...



This sums up U2 in a nutshell. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But every decision, every transition - the good (Achtung Baby), the bad (No Line, the Apple debacle) - were all based around this same idea.
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I get where you're coming from, but it doesn't sit really well with me when you hear interviews from the band in 1993-1997 talking about how it's always about pushing the boundaries and experimenting, and if they stop doing that than they might as well pack it in. And then three years later, they do just that.

IMO the two post POP albums are near the weakest in their catalog, especially in retrospect. I enjoyed them more at the time. It helped that the supporting tours were fantastic.
But I don't find much on either album that I feel is extraordinary or particularly moving.
BD, Kite, WILATW, Vertigo... One Step Closer is pretty cool. Oh, and Elevation, solely from it's live performances. That's sort of the takeaways I have from those two.

I do agree with you on No Line. Like I've said before, it was the "could have" or "should have" been album. How they couldn't pull their shit together and just make a cohesive, atmospheric, rocking album with a bit of Moroccan touches sprinkled in is beyond me.
 
To pivot this thread slightly, the blame for Pop being rushed easily falls on...Passengers. If U2 doesn't get sidetracked with Passengers, Pop arrives on time or earlier. Yes, I like Passengers, but it's not a proper "U2" album and, naturally, the record company agreed. That and Larry wasn't a fan. :lol: But, Passengers at least allowed to them to get the ambient stuff out of their system. :wink:
 
lazarus said:
You're right, it's more prominent as a pre-chorus.

But of course, there are plenty of great verse-chorus-verse songs without a bridge. And this one at least shifts gears for the outro when it brings in those electronic pipes and the trip-hop beat.
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Yea! - the intro and outro are definitely more than enough to compensate for a "proper" bridge. They're so weird but work so well. The outro, especially, is kind of its own little thing (that I plan on sampling and expanding upon one of these days).

To be honest, a "proper" bridge might have completely ruined the song. Ditto SATS. I've actually been quite critical of how goofy their attempts at "proper songwriting" have been, since they didn't really start doing it until the turn of the century. U2 mastered the art of the crescendo/breakdown/drop-out in the first 20-30 years of their career. IMO, the more recent attempts at Oscar/Tony awards have kind of warped their sense of self. They've largely replaced "Dynamic" with "Craft". The whole "songs that sound good on an acoustic guitar/piano" approach, as mentioned a million times before, seems to be a main culprit for a lot of what we here at Interference just aren't really digging anymore.

I'm no purist when it comes to song writing and structure, and probably the biggest influence U2 has made on me as a musician is that a song doesn't need a traditional structure to resonate.
 
My preferred track list is:
01 Discotheque
02 Do You Feel Loved
03 Mofo
04 Miami
05 If You Wear That Velvet Dress
06 Please
07 Wake Up Dead Man

Though sometimes I do skip "Do You Feel Loved"
 
womanfish said:
I get where you're coming from, but it doesn't sit really well with me when you hear interviews from the band in 1993-1997 talking about how it's always about pushing the boundaries and experimenting, and if they stop doing that than they might as well pack it in. And then three years later, they do just that.
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For the longest time, this was exactly how I felt. ATYCLB is a "safe" album to make after you disappoint yourself with experimentation. It's the rehab after the bender that went too far.

In recent years, however, I had to gut-check myself on ATYCLB. Yeah, I wish they hadn't have gone tame for radio play; but I also don't think it's a "back to their roots" album like gets thrown around a lot. There was nothing like that album on pop radio in 2000/2001. It was still a very innovative effort in most regards and probably the last time they achieved a(nother) true reinvention phase.

Take even the more stripped-down songs like Kite or IALW. Neither of those sound like something they'd done before. Then you had Eno/Lanois there to keep everything in the stratosphere/expansive injecting freshness with little touches here and there on a record that could've easily sounded like just four guys in a room with their instruments if they simply went in thinking they couldn't experiment anymore (I don't think Eno would've stood for that, anyway). The subsequent success was the double-edged sword that gave us the frustration a lot of us have had with them since.
 
It has been a while since I've mentioned that I'm one of those freaks that actually likes If God Will Send... and the studio version no less. :wink: But my favorite track has always been Gone. How could you omit Gone, Salome? :wink:
 
Rich79 said:
For the longest time, this was exactly how I felt. ATYCLB is a "safe" album to make after you disappoint yourself with experimentation. It's the rehab after the bender that went too far.

In recent years, however, I had to gut-check myself on ATYCLB. Yeah, I wish they hadn't have gone tame for radio play; but I also don't think it's a "back to their roots" album like gets thrown around a lot. There was nothing like that album on pop radio in 2000/2001. It was still a very innovative effort in most regards and probably the last time they achieved a(nother) true reinvention phase.

Take even the more stripped-down songs like Kite or IALW. Neither of those sound like something they'd done before. Then you had Eno/Lanois there to keep everything in the stratosphere/expansive injecting freshness with little touches here and there on a record that could've easily sounded like just four guys in a room with their instruments if they simply went in thinking they couldn't experiment anymore (I don't think Eno would've stood for that, anyway). The subsequent success was the double-edged sword that gave us the frustration a lot of us have had with them since.
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In the big scheme of things, nothing ever really sounds like U2 on the radio. They've never really fit in, and as it's been said, they really are sort of a genre unto their own.
Yes, Eno/Lanois really helped the overall atmosphere of the album, and there are some great songs, Kite being in my top 10 U2 songs ever. But it has some really bad songs, and some just very middle of the road songs.
And yes, while they went "back to the basics" there were definitely some new touches in there to keep things interesting.

I do think that if they had done All That and Bomb, and then No Line was actually the album that they set out to make, I would probably view it all differently. If they had done the back to basics and then straight rockish albums, and then followed up with a more fully atmospheric, experimental No Line, I could live with that a lot better.
It's truly hard to quantify just how much SUC and Crazy Tonight and Boots to a slightly lesser extent, fucked up what was a incredible trajectory for the band (in terms of public perception)
People were really anticipating this album, and to think that Boots accompanied by its horrible video, hit number 10 on the charts, one can only imagine what a Magnificent or No Line On the Horizon would have done.
 
The issue with ATYCLB isn't that the songs aren't weird enough, it's that the process dictated by Eno was "more time writing, less time recording" in the attempt to distill stuff down to the essentials (the experience with Rick Rubin only exacerbated this foolish concept), and to me, that doesn't play to the band's strengths. The production style strangled the life out of this material. It doesn't breathe, and sounds like it was made by a machine more than Pop does. The subsequent live versions are more of an improvement on what was done in the studio arguably than with any other album/tour.
 
It's just a different attitude to safeguarding your commercial standing in the industry as you get older.

U2 in 1981 with a cheesy pop-melody like "Pete The Chop":
"This is really cheesy, and sounds like A Flock Of Seagulls or something. Let's bury it. If our manager begs us, we'll put it out as a B-side and let it die there..."

U2 in 2000 with a cheesy pop-melody like "Stuck in a Moment...":
"This is awesome and we need to record is as slickly as possible, release it as an A-side, and promote the hell out of it if we want to compete with Britney Spears!"


I'm exaggerating just a little, but this is not an atypical approach from music makers who are industry survivors over multiple decades.

ATYCLB certainly had enough good "songs" to end up with another masterful U2 album, but the tracklisting and the studio execution of those songs was poor.
 
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