Ordinary Love Discussion (Part 2)

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It scans horribly. "Felt tip pen" would be better, rhythmically, and therefore not nearly as clunky.

Not sure if you're being serious, but I don't agree at all! To me that sounds terribly clunky and boring, while magic marker is melodious and sort of pretty. Take the trademark "Magic Marker" name out of your head and hear it literally and it's a whole different thing. It's probably my favorite line in the song!
 
I can just see many people singing the wrong words....

"your heart is on my sleeve / did you put it there peter parker"

wait, could this be a left over spidey song?:hmm:
 
Not sure if you're being serious, but I don't agree at all! To me that sounds terribly clunky and boring, while magic marker is melodious and sort of pretty. Take the trademark "Magic Marker" name out of your head and hear it literally and it's a whole different thing. It's probably my favorite line in the song!

Yeah I don't get it either. What's wrong with "magic marker"? :shrug:

I also don't have problems with "heavy as a truck" in Electrical Storm. I just sing it as "heavy as a drug" which sounds perfect there! If we start complaining about small bits of clunky lyrics here and there, there is no end to it.
 
Yeah I don't get it either. What's wrong with "magic marker"? :shrug:

It doesn't match the other lines in the equivalent places in the other verses in terms of length and meter. It's not so much the words themselves that strike me as awkward, more the fact it's crowbarred in a little bit.

If we start complaining about small bits of clunky lyrics here and there, there is no end to it.

Well, I'm not going to do that here, cos this is a thread about Ordinary Love, innit. Not particularly fond of the lyrics but nothing sticks out like the magic marker line.
 
Lyrically this song is garbage. The 'Magic Marker' line is indeed pathetic and even more so, totally dated. Bono should have said 'Sharpie'. That's much more modern, and would have changed the complexion of the song to keep the listener totally drawn in. Plus, it would be much harder to wash off, and I'm betting Nelson and Winnie would have never gotten divorced if that were the case. This song is also missing an obvious '..and Winnie needs her man / like an antelope needs a helicopter' line to push it into Achtung-levels of awesome. It's definitely not up to Pride's epic epicness, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be. Both songs are about black guys after all. But *great* black guys! Not at all like that poet guy whose head Bono tripped on, or that bird in an open cage who'd only fly for freedom, but really, couldn't fly without freedom anyhow. Maybe it's just that the guy who got the better song was already dead, and just like how paintings increase in value when the artist dies, maybe if U2 just waited a little longer the Mandela song would have been just as good as the MLK song. That, or independently writing a tribute to the memory of great man is different from writing a song about a great man's love story with his wife for a movie about that man. Either way, I'm completely pissed that U2 were on autopilot for this song. Musically, It just sounds way too generic U2-y. But not nearly as pissed as I am about them writing this unrecognizable abomination of a Coldplay-doing-U2-doing-U2-doing-Coldplay knockoff that sounds nothing like their classic work. It's exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for, and what I was hoping for was something I have never heard before. While I don't know what that sounds like, I'll know it when I don't hear it. This song, I *heard*, and heard too well for it to be something I haven't heard from U2 before. What really irks me about OL is how simple it is. There's no *meat* there. It I can *get* it so quickly, after just one listen, it must be a bland, pale shadow of the more complex, textured, layered, faceted, multi-hued work from their past - and in the invisible future I want from them - that I've listened to a thousand times. It bothers me that even after repeated listens, I still don't get that 'more' I need from a U2 song, that 'something other'. It's a thorn twisting in my side that I find myself humming such a trite offering in the shower without realizing it, never finding that U2 I was looking for in this abomination.
this, pretty much
 
Lyrically this song is garbage. The 'Magic Marker' line is indeed pathetic and even more so, totally dated. Bono should have said 'Sharpie'. That's much more modern, and would have changed the complexion of the song to keep the listener totally drawn in. Plus, it would be much harder to wash off, and I'm betting Nelson and Winnie would have never gotten divorced if that were the case. This song is also missing an obvious '..and Winnie needs her man / like an antelope needs a helicopter' line to push it into Achtung-levels of awesome. It's definitely not up to Pride's epic epicness, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be. Both songs are about black guys after all. But *great* black guys! Not at all like that poet guy whose head Bono tripped on, or that bird in an open cage who'd only fly for freedom, but really, couldn't fly without freedom anyhow. Maybe it's just that the guy who got the better song was already dead, and just like how paintings increase in value when the artist dies, maybe if U2 just waited a little longer the Mandela song would have been just as good as the MLK song. That, or independently writing a tribute to the memory of great man is different from writing a song about a great man's love story with his wife for a movie about that man. Either way, I'm completely pissed that U2 were on autopilot for this song. Musically, It just sounds way too generic U2-y. But not nearly as pissed as I am about them writing this unrecognizable abomination of a Coldplay-doing-U2-doing-U2-doing-Coldplay knockoff that sounds nothing like their classic work. It's exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for, and what I was hoping for was something I have never heard before. While I don't know what that sounds like, I'll know it when I don't hear it. This song, I *heard*, and heard too well for it to be something I haven't heard from U2 before. What really irks me about OL is how simple it is. There's no *meat* there. It I can *get* it so quickly, after just one listen, it must be a bland, pale shadow of the more complex, textured, layered, faceted, multi-hued work from their past - and in the invisible future I want from them - that I've listened to a thousand times. It bothers me that even after repeated listens, I still don't get that 'more' I need from a U2 song, that 'something other'. It's a thorn twisting in my side that I find myself humming such a trite offering in the shower without realizing it, never finding that U2 I was looking for in this abomination. Unlike their previous, previous, but no, after that..yes, that work, this song Is just a promise of what could be, without the payoff. I keep listening, but am never fulfilled. If this is what the upcoming album holds, I'll be so disappointed, unless this is a direct sign that the album will be the opposite of what this song is. Whatever that is.

epic. :applaud:
 
Lyrically this song is garbage. The 'Magic Marker' line is indeed pathetic and even more so, totally dated. Bono should have said 'Sharpie'. That's much more modern, and would have changed the complexion of the song to keep the listener totally drawn in. Plus, it would be much harder to wash off, and I'm betting Nelson and Winnie would have never gotten divorced if that were the case. This song is also missing an obvious '..and Winnie needs her man / like an antelope needs a helicopter' line to push it into Achtung-levels of awesome. It's definitely not up to Pride's epic epicness, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be. Both songs are about black guys after all. But *great* black guys! Not at all like that poet guy whose head Bono tripped on, or that bird in an open cage who'd only fly for freedom, but really, couldn't fly without freedom anyhow. Maybe it's just that the guy who got the better song was already dead, and just like how paintings increase in value when the artist dies, maybe if U2 just waited a little longer the Mandela song would have been just as good as the MLK song. That, or independently writing a tribute to the memory of great man is different from writing a song about a great man's love story with his wife for a movie about that man. Either way, I'm completely pissed that U2 were on autopilot for this song. Musically, It just sounds way too generic U2-y. But not nearly as pissed as I am about them writing this unrecognizable abomination of a Coldplay-doing-U2-doing-U2-doing-Coldplay knockoff that sounds nothing like their classic work. It's exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for, and what I was hoping for was something I have never heard before. While I don't know what that sounds like, I'll know it when I don't hear it. This song, I *heard*, and heard too well for it to be something I haven't heard from U2 before. What really irks me about OL is how simple it is. There's no *meat* there. It I can *get* it so quickly, after just one listen, it must be a bland, pale shadow of the more complex, textured, layered, faceted, multi-hued work from their past - and in the invisible future I want from them - that I've listened to a thousand times. It bothers me that even after repeated listens, I still don't get that 'more' I need from a U2 song, that 'something other'. It's a thorn twisting in my side that I find myself humming such a trite offering in the shower without realizing it, never finding that U2 I was looking for in this abomination. Unlike their previous, previous, but no, after that..yes, that work, this song Is just a promise of what could be, without the payoff. I keep listening, but am never fulfilled. If this is what the upcoming album holds, I'll be so disappointed, unless this is a direct sign that the album will be the opposite of what this song is. Whatever that is.

:bow:
 
i think the "fire / dust / sky / rain" JT-era imagery is more banal than the baby's head line. you can call the above lines "baby's head / magic marker" failures because they're weird or whatever, but their not banal. i always thought "tuna fleets clearing the sea out" was pretty bonkers, but it's striking and memorable, even if not in a good way, much like baby's head.

goofy, yes; banal, no.

what do you consider good examples of Bono's past "poetic splendor"?

I don't think there's much (if anything) by way of imagery during JT era Bono that actually wrenches you out of a song to the degree that those more recent examples do. If in the middle of Streets, Bono made a reference to a Chevrolet ("And when I go there/ We'll take my chevy") it would immediately take you out of the song. Bono dropping clunky imagery into songs is becoming almost habitual of late, whether it's weedkiller honey or the tops of baby's heads or magic markers. As for Bono's poetic flourishes, I think that's a discussion for another thread (wouldn't want to derail this one).
 
Lyrically this song is garbage. The 'Magic Marker' line is indeed pathetic and even more so, totally dated. Bono should have said 'Sharpie'. That's much more modern, and would have changed the complexion of the song to keep the listener totally drawn in. Plus, it would be much harder to wash off, and I'm betting Nelson and Winnie would have never gotten divorced if that were the case. This song is also missing an obvious '..and Winnie needs her man / like an antelope needs a helicopter' line to push it into Achtung-levels of awesome. It's definitely not up to Pride's epic epicness, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be. Both songs are about black guys after all. But *great* black guys! Not at all like that poet guy whose head Bono tripped on, or that bird in an open cage who'd only fly for freedom, but really, couldn't fly without freedom anyhow. Maybe it's just that the guy who got the better song was already dead, and just like how paintings increase in value when the artist dies, maybe if U2 just waited a little longer the Mandela song would have been just as good as the MLK song. That, or independently writing a tribute to the memory of great man is different from writing a song about a great man's love story with his wife for a movie about that man. Either way, I'm completely pissed that U2 were on autopilot for this song. Musically, It just sounds way too generic U2-y. But not nearly as pissed as I am about them writing this unrecognizable abomination of a Coldplay-doing-U2-doing-U2-doing-Coldplay knockoff that sounds nothing like their classic work. It's exactly the opposite of what I was hoping for, and what I was hoping for was something I have never heard before. While I don't know what that sounds like, I'll know it when I don't hear it. This song, I *heard*, and heard too well for it to be something I haven't heard from U2 before. What really irks me about OL is how simple it is. There's no *meat* there. It I can *get* it so quickly, after just one listen, it must be a bland, pale shadow of the more complex, textured, layered, faceted, multi-hued work from their past - and in the invisible future I want from them - that I've listened to a thousand times. It bothers me that even after repeated listens, I still don't get that 'more' I need from a U2 song, that 'something other'. It's a thorn twisting in my side that I find myself humming such a trite offering in the shower without realizing it, never finding that U2 I was looking for in this abomination. Unlike their previous, previous, but no, after that..yes, that work, this song Is just a promise of what could be, without the payoff. I keep listening, but am never fulfilled. If this is what the upcoming album holds, I'll be so disappointed, unless this is a direct sign that the album will be the opposite of what this song is. Whatever that is.

Gee, and all I wanted was a song that didn't suck.
 
Nope, there's at least two of us. :wink: But then again I don't care about the baby's head nor heavy as a truck lines either.

I think that the magic marker line is totally fine, but that the baby's head and heavy as a truck lines are abysmal.
 
I think that the magic marker line is totally fine, but that the baby's head and heavy as a truck lines are abysmal.

I think they're all bad. And isn't there one about a pocket full of sunshine somewhere?

On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem with the ATM line.

On the whole, I think it's much easier to excuse weak lyrics if the music is strong.
 
I'm probably one of the few who actually appreciates the lyrics. I'll take them over any other lyrics that come out of the radio these days.

@Matt: excellent job!
 
I think they're all bad. And isn't there one about a pocket full of sunshine somewhere?

On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem with the ATM line.

On the whole, I think it's much easier to excuse weak lyrics if the music is strong.

So because you like Moment of Surrender, the lyric about the Automatic Teller Machine Machine is just fine, but the magic marker line is dog shit because you dislike the song.

Got it.
 
The Magic Marker line doesn't work for me mainly because of the melody. He sings the line differently, and it has this really "serious" tone, as if to say stop having fun, this is the "profound" moment...whereas the rest of the song is a gorgeous breezy pop tune that succeeds at being anthemic while avoiding sounding grandstanding and sanctimonious.

I'm actually really struck by how effortless and catchy the chorus is. For the first time in a while, Bono has picked a melody that compliments each and every syllable and also compliments the message. SOmetimes it's best to just cut to the point, and the concept of "if we cannot feel ordinary love" is a strangely powerful one. It's like the theme Bono's been searching for over the last 2 albums. Behind all the bullshit slogans it all comes down to this. If we, as humanity, can't feel for our enemies, then we are basically screwed. And if we can, then there is hope.

I don't understand the Coldplay comparison. I think the chorus sounds very modern, like something the band Fun or Arcade Fire or Foster the People would come up with. It's modern but also very classic u2. A perfect marriage of old and new. I like the song a lot.
 
If The National wrote the magic marker line, many here would call it brilliant.
 
On the whole, I think it's much easier to excuse weak lyrics if the music is strong.

Agreed with this. It's the Elton John phenomenon: a great hook, melody, or lead riff will cover up poor lyrics.

If The National wrote the magic marker line, many here would call it brilliant.

Can't agree with this. It's another rehashing of the cliche that some bands here are blindly worshiped, which I just don't find to be the case.
 
On the other hand, I have absolutely no problem with the ATM line.

The automatic teller machine machine line makes me want to throw my chair into the wall, so I guess we both hate three out of four controversial lyrics. :wink:
 
I would guess that Bono could probably dash off line after line of abstract poetic puffery and that he sees these oddball concrete moments as grounding devices.

Sometimes it is jarring, but that's okay.
 
I don't understand the Coldplay comparison. I think the chorus sounds very modern, like something the band Fun or Arcade Fire or Foster the People would come up with. It's modern but also very classic u2. A perfect marriage of old and new. I like the song a lot.

Somewhere along the line, Coldplay claimed the 'keyboard/piano' sound as their signature. If any other band uses pianos and/or keyboards as a prominent feature in a song, they are now ripping off Coldplay. If Billy Joel put out another piano-centric album, it would seen as derivative of Coldplay. Same with Elton John, a resurrected Liberace, or U2.

It would be the same as if Coldplay used a delay effect similar to the Edge's trademark sound. They'd be seen as ripping off U2. Why? U2 made the mistake of using more guitar effects early on than piano sounds, and that became their 'signature'. They should have seen the future and made more New Year's Day and October-esque songs. That way, Coldplay would have used more digital delay rather than piano to set themselves apart, and U2 could write Ordinary Love without seeming derivative of Coldplay. And when Coldplay came up with a piano track, everyone would scream that it sounds like U2

There's no other reason, really.
 
It's not so much the words themselves that strike me as awkward, more the fact it's crowbarred in a little bit.

I can get behind this. I'm okay with clunky diction and syntax here and there, but if it is forced into meter, it drives me crazy.
 
I can get behind this. I'm okay with clunky diction and syntax here and there, but if it is forced into meter, it drives me crazy.

That's exactly what turns me off about it. I wish he went back to the "i can't fight you anymore" melody. The "heart is on my sleeve..." part sounds like a leftover from some aborted song. Or maybe Bono was desperate to give his "magic marker" a home, squeezed it into the 2nd verse and then crossed it off his long list of "corny lines to be used." It's the only part of the song that I dislike, and the next line isn't much better. Honestly, I think it's the melody more than the lyric that bothers me. It temporarily drags the song's airy awesomeness down to the HTDAAB faux sincerity level.
 
I could care even less than that. If there was a lessness to caring, that's how much I could care less. Only less than that. I'm careless with my care lessing. Well, I could be anyway.

Personally, however, I couldn't care more.
 
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