I listened to No Line on the Horizon right through tonight for the first time in about 10 years…

[zoopop]

I always loved the first 4 tracks. The opening of NLOTH and just the sequence of the next 3. Great flow to them and keeps you engaged. And then it just falls off the tracks fast & hard. It never recovers from then & SUC is the worst U2 song ever recorded. Fez, WAS, & Breathe are fine songs but it just doesnt flow.

MOS is probably the most emotional song on the album & in some ways it just misses that U2 magic/emotion. That magic has been missing a while on the last 3 albums. Though Little Things has it.

 

[Digital Spy 2]

Here’s the thing: U2 sees the US as their most important market. They have written entire songs, hell, albums about the country.

So any slip-up here is a major bomb to them: the critical and commercial reception to Pop, the indifference to NLOTH after 2 consecutive huge “comeback” albums, SOI release, even Spider-Man.

Now I’d argue their focus on hits on American radio has been to their detriment for about, ehhh, 15 years. But to criticize an American fan for being somewhat myopic about a band openly obsessed with their country is a reach at best.

I disagree that they don't like the rest of their fan base. I was checking yesterday and U2 have had more hit singles in the UK than they have in America. Both War and The Unforgettable Fire got to number one in the UK before they had their first number one album in America. U2 are Irish and European, not American. They are no more American than they are Indian.

India has a much larger population than America. The whole of Europe is also much higher. Plus you lot don't like Electrical Storm because you said it sounded like an Oasis song who broke Europe and transformed the music that we heard. Electrical Storm was a huge hit in the UK and I know 2 huge Oasis fans who normally hated U2 but both loved Electrical Storm.

U2 also seem to be quite popular within the BBC radio and music establishment. Although I don't the BBC because they covered up what Jimmy Saville was up to, but they are the dominant force in the UK for TV and radio.

 

[DeVaul]

I disagree that they don't like the rest of their fan base.

I never said they don’t like the rest of their fanbase.

 

[Digital Spy 2]

I get it. Basically you are saying that you are jealous of the fact that they did it in order to get into emerging markets in Asia. Don't you think that you should drop it now as it was 10 years ago?

If you walked around any town or city in my country and asked them about what they thought about the free automatic download U2 album 10 years ago, all you'll get is a shrug of the shoulders because most people didn't receive it as most people don't even own an iPhone. Samsung is the most popular phone followed by Huawei in the UK. Huawei is the most popular phone in the world. People who do own an iPhone will tell you that they receive a free album through automatic download every week. Every musician releases albums through automatic downloads nowadays. They will also say that they also receive free automatic downloaded apps and video games.

Most of all though, everyone has forgotten. You remind me of some Whovians who used to judge Christopher Eccleston for leaving Dr who after 1 series. They were still moaning about it 14 years until he revealed in his autobiography that he was suffering from anorexia and depression at the time. There was even more sympathy for him after one of his co-stars on DW Noel Clarke was accused of sexual assault and John Barrowman was revealed to be a flasher. There's still Whovians who are very critical towards him.

 

[DeVaul]

I get it. Basically you are saying that you are jealous of the fact that they did it in order to get into emerging markets in Asia. Don't you think that you should drop it now as it was 10 years ago?

Didn’t say that either. Re-read my post. One mention of SOI in a list of apparent missteps that they (over)reacted to based on American fan reception b/c the US has been their consistently communicated primary focus market [see also: SOE liner notes]. Or, y’know, ignore the very clear points and continue bloviating.

 

[DaveC]

my wife has had iphones with auto-downloads turned on for well over a decade, and only one album or app has ever been auto-pushed onto her phone - SOI.

 

[mikal]

my wife has had iphones with auto-downloads turned on for well over a decade, and only one album or app has ever been auto-pushed onto her phone - SOI.

I have a couple of friends who still to this day hear the beginning of The Miracle of Joey Ramone when they connect their phone to their car.

 

[Hewson]

my wife has had iphones with auto-downloads turned on for well over a decade, and only one album or app has ever been auto-pushed onto her phone - SOI.

Yeah I have no idea about the other music, games and apps our new friend is saying just automatically download onto your iphone.
Have never had anything else auto download.
Maybe you have to be in your Tardis for it to happen.

 

[cobl04]

When I listened back the other week, it's not even that bad, honestly (SUC). I really like the pre-chorus. It's miles better than the three singles on SOE

 

[Digital Spy 2]

my wife has had iphones with auto-downloads turned on for well over a decade, and only one album or app has ever been auto-pushed onto her phone - SOI.

Obviously she has switched off automatic downloads like a sensible person does. If you don't switch off automatic downloads then it is not pushed because you obviously want everything on your phone. It's the digital equivalent of walking outside with your doors unlocked and coming back to find that you've been burgled.

I have a couple of friends who still to this day hear the beginning of The Miracle of Joey Ramone when they connect their phone to their car.

Well they must like it else they would have deleted it.

Yeah I have no idea about the other music, games and apps our new friend is saying just automatically download onto your iphone.
Have never had anything else auto download.
Maybe you have to be in your Tardis for it to happen.

The good news is that most people have learnt to switch off automatic downloads now. Gerry keeps his on because he likes video games.

BTW I have noticed that you have referred to me as your new friend. Thank you for being so kind and patient to have a proper discussion over this. I worried in case you'd chase me out of the forum for having a different perspective. If we both have our own opinions over this then perhaps we can learn from each others perspective.

I have also noted that you have heard of Doctor Who. Any mention of Doctor Who is a bonus in the UK.

 

[Digital Spy 2]

Didn’t say that either. Re-read my post. One mention of SOI in a list of apparent missteps that they (over)reacted to based on American fan reception b/c the US has been their consistently communicated primary focus market [see also: SOE liner notes]. Or, y’know, ignore the very clear points and continue bloviating.

I have just read the linear notes of SOE as I have it on vinyl. You are right, he does have a short paragraph about America. However he didn't mention SOI and more importantly I don't think that means that U2 prefer American fans to European fans, Australians, South Americans or Asian fans.

I don't think that they consider America to be their most important market either. I still maintain that they are more popular in Europe than anywhere else, primarily because they are European themselves. The type of music that's popular in Ireland is also popular in the UK. That's why U2 have been influenced by Oasis who changed the sound of British and European music.

It's not only Electrical Storm that resonated strongly in Europe but not in America but also Bono & The Edge's Euro 2021 song which I noticed that you didn't like whilst I've been lurking this forum. We Are The People was aimed at a European market. I noticed that you didn't like Ahimsa which I hadn't heard of until recently. But I understand that it was aimed at an Indian market.

If they consider any market more important than I would say that that would be Ireland, followed by the UK, then the rest of Europe and then America. I found it quite sad that you think that they consider America to be their most important market.

 

[DeVaul]

This will be my last response to your, uhh, “commentary.”

U2’s current popularity in any market doesn’t matter a whit in relation to my comments about their focus/obsession with the American market. Not the individual fans, but the record buying public as a consumer bloc. Which are supported by decades of statements and actions by the band. Which, again, as I clearly stated, have done them some level of disservice since NLOTH (oh yeah, the album this thread is about).

I won’t dive deep into how comparative population size and American cultural homogeny of the 80s and 90s (vs now) might’ve played a part in that focus, nor will I dig into how comparing a country’s fanbase to an entire continent’s fanbase is a reach because, well, more facts might prove to be problematic.

Speaking of, your statements that begin with “I don’t think,” do not equal facts. They’re opinions stated without actual supportive data. I find it quite sad that after being pointed out as completely misinterpreting and/or outright misstating my comments (jealous of emerging markets? SOI is was 10 yrs ago so drop it? ) about their responses to the American market reactions of R&H, Pop, etc. you’re still harping on because you’re clearly miffed about, well, something.

 

[Achtung Ya'll]

I'd say SOE has has some good tunes on it for you right now.

Totally missed this, but yeah SOE honestly has been in steady rotation since it came out!

 

[mikal]

Well they must like it else they would have deleted it.

Well, they physically can't.

 

[lazarus]

That's why U2 have been influenced by Oasis who changed the sound of British and European music.

 

[Irvine511]

SOI is still on my mother-in-law's phone. it's quite funny to me.

 

[CedarwoodAWT]

It's their most recent good album. Definitely not great, but it contains their last songs that can be described as great.

I tend to agree that it was their last album that featured an attempt to explore from a place of freedom vs a place of over-controlling musical conservatism for the sake of popularity.

The last moment of blindingly good U2-ness was “Beautiful Day”, on a record that began their mostly current posture of stasis. That whole album was solid, but it was also very conventional in its creative scope and derivative of a tool box they’d already assembled. In other words - it was an extension of what they’d already done creatively, and a tempered me at that. They’ve never done anything that’s sounded new AND brilliant since 1997.

I’ve enjoyed moments off all their 21st century output. But the last album in which they said anything new and succeeded was “Pop”. Disco, mofo, do you feel love, last night and several others were triumphant. Too ahead of their time. Playboy, Angels were clunkers.

But although it failed - at least No Line was also an attempt to say something new - to broaden their vocabulary. They largely missed, but the effort was worth trying and I like the album at least for that.

But the middle 3 - crazy, boots, SUC - are completely out of place and never should have made it. They reflect Bono’s frustrated ambition to score a massive hit; as he put it during that era - “Brian wouldn’t know a hit if it bit him on the ass”. Sadly, neither would Bono by that time. But at least Eno had better a sense of restraint to keep that album true to itself.

Would easily trade all three for Winter.

 

[CedarwoodAWT]

NLOTH is a fucking absolute mess, but I cannot believe what I'm reading about SOI/E being better. Just because they stuck to the sound a little better doesn't make them better records. The Troubles is the only song that comes even close to being great. There is not a single track on SOI/E, aside from that song, that puts its nuts on the line or takes any risks. They are so boringly safe, and sure, there's a handful of nice songs on them, but NLOTH was the last time U2 had any fucking balls in the studio (they've proven they still have it live). There is nothing on the last two records, aside from The Troubles, that can touch any of these moments:

• The duelling guitars and Bono's soaring vocals on the title track
• The longest song they've ever released, with Bono actually putting some skin in the fucking game
• The most interesting and daring song they've written this entire fucking millennium, Fez: Being Born
• Maybe the best song they've released this millennium, Cedars of Lebanon, with Bono singing in a fucking register that actually matches his age and current vocal strengths and the band actually doing - and pulling off, unlike the horrific SOS - understated

And we're supposed to appreciate SOI/E because they don't have a run of three questionable songs? Despite the fact that the three worst songs the band have ever committed to tape are all on SOE? Because they're "biographical"? Despite the fact they contain comfortably the worst, most uninspiring, boring set of lyrics that Bono has ever written?

Fuck outta here.

What 3 songs do you hate on SOE? That you refer to above?

Guessing -

Best thing
Landlady
Little things?

 

[womanfish]

What 3 songs do you hate on SOE? That you refer to above?

Guessing -

Best thing
Landlady
Little things?

Yikes!!! Those are horrible guesses. American Soul and The Showman are terrible. I LOVE Landlady and Little Things. Best Thing is much better than most around here want to admit. I'd take it over Sweetest Thing any day.

 

[CedarwoodAWT]

I always wonder what could have been if they had actually included "All My Life" as like the one big pop/rock single. It would have been big. They could have deleted the middle 3 (I guess if they left "Crazy Tonight" on it wouldn't have been the worst thing, but the song still sucks).

And “Winter”.

Absolutely worthy.

 

[CedarwoodAWT]

Yikes!!! Those are horrible guesses. American Soul and The Showman are terrible. I LOVE Landlady and Little Things. Best Thing is much better than most around here want to admit. I'd take it over Sweetest Thing any day.

I like Landlady. Little Things is OK. Best Thing is a hit in search of a soul. IMO. I think that song and American Soul needed to be left on the cutting room floor. Or as a stand alone single and it’s B side.

Anyway - I was just trying to guess.

 

[cobl04]

Best Thing, Own Way and American Soul.

 

[womanfish]

I don't understand the fixation people have on unreleased songs. Winter is a jumbled mess with really bad instrumentation, jilted lyrics and kind of cut and pasted together. hence being unreleased. Mercy doesn't do much better.

 

[womanfish]

Best Thing, Own Way and American Soul.

The Showman is better than Best Thing and Get Out? Really?

 

[lazarus]

Best Thing, Own Way and American Soul.

Bingo.

 

[cobl04]

I mean we're comparing mouldy apples to rotten ones, but The Showman is kind of fun and feels like it has a sense of tongue-in-cheek. Those three tracks are all earnest.

 

[CedarwoodAWT]

I don't understand the fixation people have on unreleased songs. Winter is a jumbled mess with really bad instrumentation, jilted lyrics and kind of cut and pasted together. hence being unreleased. Mercy doesn't do much better.

Mercy is terrible.

Winter just hits me different. It has soul to it. I think it’s a beautiful song.

Great Production can’t make American Soul good. Rough production can’t make Winter bad.

Songs have it or they don’t. And Mercy doesn’t.

 

[lazarus]

I mean we're comparing mouldy apples to rotten ones, but The Showman is kind of fun and feels like it has a sense of tongue-in-cheek. Those three tracks are all earnest.

Exactly. Extremely catchy tune that isn't crippled by terrible production choices. I wouldn't want a whole album that sounds like it but on a pretty schizophrenic record it works for me. Would have been a better single than Get Out, that's for sure.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

The Showman is better than Best Thing and Get Out? Really?

yes.

 

[djerdap]

Mercy is terrible.

Winter just hits me different. It has soul to it. I think it’s a beautiful song.

Great Production can’t make American Soul good. Rough production can’t make Winter bad.

Songs have it or they don’t. And Mercy doesn’t.

I fully agree with you about Mercy.

One of Boner's most annoying vocal performances.