mikal
Blue Crack Addict
I'd have to agree here. I'd actually say the only song that's as or more adventurous as anything on SOI would be When I Look At The World, which also happens to be my favorite song on that record.
Every Breaking Wave - Song Discussion
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I'd have to agree here. I'd actually say the only song that's as or more adventurous as anything on SOI would be When I Look At The World, which also happens to be my favorite song on that record.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
There'a a lot going on in ATYCLB. It has a reputation as being more "stripped down" U2, but I've never found that at all. I hear Eno and Lanois all over it. I find the sound to be wonderfully rich and textured. Overall I think it's a more satisfying listening experience than SOI (which I also like).
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I agree Vintage... Wait a second, it's like attack of the clones all over again.
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thavidesco
Refugee
I don´t think so. SOI is very unusual record for U2. It doesn´t sound like U2 at all. It is also very versatile and it works like an album at the same time. It doesn´t dound forced like last few U2 albums. They challenged themselves in many ways and the result is fantastic. For me certainly their 3rd best record.
On the contrary when I listen to ATYCLB, I sometimes cannot believe it is the band I admire. I mean songs like Stuck, the intro of Walk On, Wild Honey, Peace on Earth are so...plain. The arrangement, the production of the songs is so boring, without edges, not ambitious. They did have good material to work with but what they decide to do with it was the issue. They are tamed animals on that album. Everything is so polished for the radios. As time goes by I think it is more and more obvious.
thavidesco
Refugee
If they decided to start with California and then go for Crystal Ballroom or EBW electric, avoid the more or less forgettable acoustic performances, I believe it would be a different story.
ozeeko
Refugee
I doubt it. They would still be U2. Not in the game anymore. Wait for the tour. Maybe a Grammy or two. The End.
U2DMfan
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
I don't agree that ATYCLB had "absolutely amazing songs". Not to any noteworthy degree. Elevation is utter tripe. Stuck is schmaltz and Walk On has proven to be U2 on autopilot. Now...Kite is worthy of any song they've done in the back half of their career. When I Look is a nice 'Side Two' gem but nothing more. And if Beautiful Day were on SOI, it would be...Every Breaking Wave. The primary difference being one song was greeted by a mass audience eager to fall in love with U2 again and the other was greeted by a mass audience that just wants them to go away. Either way, both are the same type of thing, done pretty well. Only...arguably...Every Breaking Wave is a lot less cliche in content. Whereas BD reads like a mix of motivational poster slogans.
So Kite...BD...what else? A few other nice tracks, I suppose but overall, that album gets more love out of nostalgia and the zeitgeist of its cultural moment than the actual musical product. Completely unremarkable, top to bottom. SOI is clearly a better album just based on songcraft, but that's still not saying a hell of a lot. I don't know what is more "socially adventurous" because I don't know exactly what you mean by that. But I will say that musically, creatively, they were at least attempting to wander into some new territory for them...as well-worn territory it was for almost anyone else. I give them that credit where it's due. I've always rejected the notion it was a 'return to the 80's', it absolutely wasn't. No, that's SOI.
Speaking of these two albums, in my view, ATYCLB and SOI share the most DNA in their "aim to please" formulaic and safe nature. The biggest difference being that SOI has better songy material (I'm trying to save myself a lot of descriptive words and wanky self-indulgent "I'm a musician" talk) and ATYCLB being more original, but not by a lot. SOI, for as much as it succeeds in what it aims to do, is the most derivative thing they've ever done, creatively.
And maybe the most innovative (for U2's own sound) song on the album, to me, is one of the most explicitly pop/desperate for a modern "hit" songs they've ever done - California. It's a good song, I like it, but it sums up SOI quite nicely. Really well done, catchy, unremarkable, inoffensive, easily digestible, formulaic. It could have fit on ATYCLB in that it wasn't really new to anyone in the conversation but U2 themselves. And only mildly at that.
It's like ATYCLB's better looking (sounding) cousin, SOI, in that sense but neither one of them is going to occupy much space in the chapter of the Book of Great Rock n Roll that discusses what made U2 remarkable.
IMO, over these last many years (17 by current count) U2 have done their best to be as unremarkable as possible in order to be as popular as possible.
ozeeko
Refugee
I would have to agree. The production is what saves a track like Elevation. Say what you will about the song and the lyrics, but the stuff in the background is beautiful. There's a warmth and cohesion to the album. It sounds like its own world. On SOI, there are some adventurous tracks, yes, but half the album is very mainstream sounding. ATYCLB might be direct and "stripped down" as you said, but it doesn't sound at all to me like a ready for radio production. It retains that mysterious, haunting U2 sound.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Well, I disagree, I think ATYCLB is better in every measurable way than SOI (which, as I've said, I like). I rated it a 7 when it first came out, and I still give it about a 7. It's a decent collection of safe, mainstream pop/rock songs, none of which are bad but none really soar either. Though to be honest, I hardly ever go to it anymore. I'll listen and enjoy the songs when one comes up, and I honestly like every one of the songs, but the record sorta feels flat and uninspired for me right now. I can't explain it...there's nothing I really dislike or find objectionable about the record, but it's really not pulling me towards it any more. I'm not inspired to continue listening to it at all.
ATYCLB is admittedly also a safe record, but it just works much better for me. It also remains one of the most important records in U2's history.
I get that you feel differently, and that's fine. I actually think it's great that you think so much of it that it's your third favourite...I love for U2 to give me a record I felt that strongly about at this point. Oh well, De gustibus non est disputandum.
U2DMfan
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Except that it absolutely does. That's not a comment on quality but content. It's positively their most derivative album. No question about it.
Practically every single song sounds like they're time traveling (but not to their creative zenith...but back to the period of their historical revisions of when they supposedly 'came from punk'). I mean, you could even argue this was one of the core creative aims, if not THE aim of the album. Looking back to '76-'83.
I wouldn't mind them looking back if they were looking back to a time when they were pushing themselves musically...rather than their amateurish origins. But hey, they wanted to make "perfect pop songs", they did a pretty good job of it.
thavidesco
Refugee
Certainly not with this record.
Nevertheless, I must agree it is not innovative sounding record in general terms of music. BUT, it is a HUGE distraction from comfort zone U2 used to be in for a long time (especially ATYCLB, Bomb and half of NLOTH). With this record it was BIG step into the places they have never been. Both musically and lyrically. I´m very proud of them to be able to do that in their age and stage of their career. Very, very, very few bands, if any in history were able to do it. I mean BIG bands. I don´t agree they were focused to be as popular as possible with this record. I believe the themes of the songs, the music, an attempt to push themselves somewhere else was their biggest motivation again. Like they did succesfully with AB and unsuccesfully with Pop last time they tried.
The problem with the perception of the record probably is: it was a big step for U2, but it wasn´t a big step for world of music. They reinvented themselves bravely into something that was already discovered, so it isn´t anything fresh and exciting to main public
thavidesco
Refugee
RESPECT for that, very few people here are able to say this.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Hmmm...what do you mean by "for a long time"? I agree about Bomb..but ATYLB? What other U2 record sounded anything like ATYCLB? U2's last proper record before that was Pop, which ATYCLB sounds nothing like.
ATYLCB was a much more dramatic departure vs. what they had been doing for the previous 10 years than SOI is, IMO.
thavidesco
Refugee
Except of Larry´s fast hi-hat it doesn´t sound like early U2 or Joshua Tree or 90´s U2 at all. None of U2 early records sounds like that. There is a bit of flavour of early era but that´s it.
They were looking back IN TERMS OF ANYLYZING THEIR LIVES, THEIR SITUATION, THE THINGS THEY FORMED THEM back then in Dublin, Ireland in the 7O´s. That´s the point.
ozeeko
Refugee
Yup.
Gonna Run 2 U
New Yorker
Well here's to hoping Songs Of Experience is still happening and is worth buying
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God Part III
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Maybe you won't have to. The next logical step is to pay people to own the new U2 album.
thavidesco
Refugee
It is not so tricky. Follow me...
They were upset. Very upset. They wanted Zooropa to be their Sgt. Pepper. It wasn´t. They wanted Passengers to be a regular U2 record. Universal didn´t give them the permission to release it as U2!!! Whatta humiliation for a band in their position! Then they failed badly with Pop. That was the worst episode. They had two options: to continue developing the process of their musical progress and being probably more and more alternative or to attempt comeback to charts. They decided for the latter. The rest is well known history. Widely succesful radio friendly ATYCLB, collection of potentional singles on Bomb album, NLOTH - an attempt for an unusual and exciting record stripped down to mainstream level late in the recording process. You are actually right about ATYCLB that it was the biggest departure for them. But in compeletely wrong direction
For me the worst thing about ATYCLB was they comppeletely resigned on any artistical goals, its only focused was to bring U2 back into the charts and radios and become nr. 1 band again.It was only the last album they felt strong enough to do something original and ambitious again.
Nick66
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Edit: I'm not sure where you're getting this from...
or this...
But I don't believe either to be true.
or this...
But I don't believe either to be true.
david
ONE love, blood, life
Zooropa wasn't meant to be anything other than a companion piece to Achtung Baby. It sold really well considering it was not promoted in america (aside from music videos, one of which was a buzz video for a while 'Numb') at the time and only had songs from it performed on the last leg of their European tour. I know Bono was quoted as saying he wanted it to be their Sgt. Peppers, but it failed to deliver the pop songs, that's just typical Bono.
RaisedByWolves
War Child
shaun vox
New Yorker
i agree ..having an acoustic version of every breaking wave as a second single was a horrible decision ..especially if the first single was a flop.. way to go guys 
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
i agree ..having an acoustic version of every breaking wave as a second single was a horrible decision ..especially if the first single was a flop.. way to go guys
Where is this coming from?
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BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
VintagePunk
Blue Crack Distributor
Scorpionac
War Child
Nah, Beautiful Day is a monster of a stadium pop song. No comparison with Every Breaking Wave, which is more idiosyncratic and less instantly iconic.
As for discussions of SOI's relevance to the public - I agree that its day is done. Not sure what U2 thought was going to happen... Lightning rarely strikes twice, but it did for this band of 40-somethings in 2001 with Beautiful Day and again in 2004 with Vertigo. Lightning is not going to strike a third time.
thavidesco
Refugee
i agree ..having an acoustic version of every breaking wave as a second single was a horrible decision ..especially if the first single was a flop.. way to go guys
True!
thavidesco
Refugee
Check U2 history and what the members of U2 said in the past.
God Part III
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Usually in this type of situation, it's custom to back up your own statements with facts rather than asking other people to find them for you.
I've heard Bono compare Zooropa to Sgt. Peppers, but only in the fact that it's 'really a concept album'. I've never heard them express any disappointment about the reception of the album. And that stuff about Passengers, I've heard that the label was relieved that the band didn't want it to be a U2 release, but what you're saying sounds bizarre to me, especially taking Larry into account.
You're conjecturing, which is ok, but don't present it as common knowledge, especially if you're not willing to back up what you're saying.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I was in college at the time, at the height of my fandom, I know everything that was said about these 2 albums. Please try harder and quit putting your opinion out there as fact.
Yes, there was talk of making the Eno sessions the next U2 album AT THE VERY BEGINNING, but once they realized the direction there was no wanting that anymore, there was no crushed ego between the band and label.
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