Even More Things Australian

[Slopsy]

I saw those exact shirts being sold in a souvenir store once. What a great thing to bring back home.

Hope there are hip Tokyo kids who wear them.

Oh jesus

 

[Axver]

I saw those exact shirts being sold in a souvenir store once. What a great thing to bring back home.

Hope there are hip Tokyo kids who wear them.

What a fantastic fucking advertisement to persuade everybody else to not visit Australia.

 

[cobl04]

Have been to every state except WA

Hope there are hip Tokyo kids who wear them.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Yeah, they may as well write "you should probably go to NZ instead" on shirts if they're selling that.

Also Cobbler, I know, I know. I've never been to an Eagles homegame. Maybe I should save up a little this year.

 

[cobl04]

Sometimes I actually forgot you're from SA, not WA

 

[The Sad Punk]

Haha, I must be doing something right then.

Maybe I should change my avatar to a frog cake.

 

[cobl04]

A magical frog?

Spoiler

 

[The Sad Punk]

Spoiler

Frog cake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Axver]

Yeah, they may as well write "you should probably go to NZ instead" on shirts if they're selling that.

Yeah, Pakeha are mainly just too busy being racist towards Maori to properly get their hate on towards overseas races.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Yeah, Pakeha are mainly just too busy being racist towards Maori to properly get their hate on towards overseas races.

Silly Kiwis, we Aussies can multitask our racism.

 

[Slopsy]

Spoiler

Frog cake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Um

What

I can't even handle this. I have to go to SA now.

 

[Axver]

Oh my god that frog cake looks like one of th best things!

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Haven't been to NT or TAS, but otherwise pretty well travelled in Australia (relative to how little most people actually seem to do). WA is fantastic. Love Perth, and the Margaret River region is my favourite non-city part of the country. Would love to do north WA one day. Whenever you meet someone o/s, particularly from the UK, and they're off for a short-ish holiday to Australia (ie not backpackers who do a lot over a few months), they all pretty much do the same thing - Sydney, then north to Queensland, usually Whitsundays/Reef. I'm always doing my bit pushing for both taking the time to do either a quick side trip to Melbourne, or dropping the cash and time to go do WA, perhaps even over and above FNQ, as great as the reef and surrounds are.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

That Dire Straits run in Sydney - 20 x gigs over about a month at the Sydney Entertainment Centre = between 200K-240K. About what U2 did in 3 x gigs over a lazy weekend at ANZ Stadium on Vertigo.

But looking back on U2 at the Entertainment Centre in the 80s, they did 7 gigs there for Lovetown, which is more than decent, but kinda remarkable in comparison that they did 5 there for Unforgettable Fire.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Yeah, Pakeha are mainly just too busy being racist towards Maori to properly get their hate on towards overseas races.

for realsies, i haven't encountered one single "shuddup and fuck off back to america" person. if i did i'd just laugh and say if int'l students didn't go there, their tuition would raise even more zomg

btw, if i've been to an airport but that's it, does that count as having visited a state in australia? if so, then i've been to three. if not, then only two. i'd love to visit all the states and territories but for me doing that for the us is more of a priority. even though it'd be a lot easier and cheaper to do it in australia, i know.

 

[bono_man2002]

Don't think I was born when my parents went to Tassie, but aside from that have been to every state and territory. (If a 1 hour layover in Adelaide airport counts?)

 

[intedomine]

Australia needed more cities, instead of just letting it's metropolitan regions sprawl relentless outwards. It's hard to believe that Officer is about to undergo a massive population boom with estates due to be built. And I remember when Melton was an isolated country town in it's own right, and not merely an extension of metropolitan Melbourne.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Sydney has tried to curtail it. Very few land releases on the outskirts, more high density in the inner suburbs - and thats always a shitfight. But no, Melbourne doesn't. It's why if Sydney continues to block it, Melbourne continues to go free with it, by 2040 Melbourne could catch Sydney in population (when referring to Sydney's 'strict' population - which isn't quite right). But NSW is very different to VIC.

 

[cobl04]

I'm guessing that's why Sydney's house prices are astronomic (so I'm told?)?

I don't mind urban sprawl. It has to happen - how the fuck else are we going to contain the population - and it's better to build out then up, I think. Victoria's got enough boring, empty space to build on.

 

[mysterious_jen]

I have seen those shirts for sale in the shopping centre down the road. Then again my suburb is houso central. The gollywogs are also still available.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Well that's the thing, Victoria is a small state, fine to be centered around one large city (in more ways than one). For NSW, lots of reasons why a stable and managed (slower) growth of Sydney + incentives to move to and develop elsewhere are very important.

Yeah, very low supply vs very high demand is one of the main reasons why Sydney house prices are off the charts across the board. In inner suburbs a lot of other factors come into play. For people like me who are looking at buying into the Sydney market at some point in the near future, it's OH SUCH A FUCKING FUN GAME to look at prices in the Sydney areas you're interested in, and then look at what that can get you in the equivalent district of any other Australian city.

And I'm the opposite. I like urban build up, hate suburban sprawl. Can't imagine anything worse than living in an outer suburb. Depressing even just to visit.

 

[Axver]

That Dire Straits run in Sydney - 20 x gigs over about a month at the Sydney Entertainment Centre = between 200K-240K. About what U2 did in 3 x gigs over a lazy weekend at ANZ Stadium on Vertigo.

But looking back on U2 at the Entertainment Centre in the 80s, they did 7 gigs there for Lovetown, which is more than decent, but kinda remarkable in comparison that they did 5 there for Unforgettable Fire.

What I don't quite get is why Dire Straits stuck to an arena in Sydney despite the evident demand for a billion tickets, but quite happily played a stadium in Brisbane. Couldn't they have just saved a heap of time by playing three stadium gigs?

and it's better to build out then up, I think.

Completely and fundamentally wrong. The more your cities sprawl, the more expensive it is to provide practically any service imaginable. Building up (and by this, I don't mean thousands of 20+ storey high rises, just medium to high density like Melbourne's inner suburbs) makes the provision of everything from public transport to medical services to education more cost-effective, and due to the larger local market, it can also keep down the cost of consumer goods. This is why inner city suburbs always have the best public transport, heaps of doctors, the best schools, etc., and their use of resources is much more efficient. Meanwhile, outer suburbs are shackled to their car, pollution per capita is worse, residents are often time-poor due to dumbfuck long commutes to work and lengthy drives even to the shopping centre, the schools are not necessarily bad but nothing special, and the hospital is further than you'd like it if you or a relative falls ill.

Melbourne desperately, desperately needs to contract in size and focus on becoming a more dense city. The sprawl is unsustainable. Under good urban planning, nobody should have to travel over an hour to get to work, and the majority of citizens should only need to travel half an hour maximum. Also, much of that land you call boring and empty is actually prime farming land, and pushing farmers further away and onto less productive land increases costs of basic goods while decreasing the quality, and in the name of what? A soulless housing estate with streets named after whatever councillors give the best blowjobs?

Australia needed more cities, instead of just letting it's metropolitan regions sprawl relentless outwards. It's hard to believe that Officer is about to undergo a massive population boom with estates due to be built. And I remember when Melton was an isolated country town in it's own right, and not merely an extension of metropolitan Melbourne.

Bendigo tries to market itself as a regional centre, but imagine if 40 or so years ago, sane heads had prevailed to curtail Melbourne's sprawl and encouraged actual development of regional centres. Bendigo, Ballarat, Shepparton, and the LaTrobe Valley should all be more populated than they are, and Melbourne less. Plus it would mean a good number of businesses would actually be located closer to their actual clients and the distribution of goods throughout the state would be a lot more efficient!

 

[Axver]

I'm having a hell of a time finding somewhere to rent in Melbourne's inner north that ticks all my boxes and doesn't cost the fucking earth and is in a suburb I like. I really hate looking a few suburbs further out and seeing how much cheaper it is there ... but then I know that I couldn't walk to most things (so I'd be even less fit than I am now, which isn't worth considering) and I'd have a much longer commute (thanks to having a 5 minute commute my first year of uni, I still resent my current 25 minute commute).

And then I remember that if I think the Melbourne market's bad, apparently Sydney's even worse. Yikes.

Maybe I should just go and buy a house in rural New Zealand. I'd probably have a mortgage half of what I pay a month in rent here! I'd also end up fucking rich because I'd no longer have any concerts to spend all my disposable income on.

 

[cobl04]

I should know better by now than to post a half-arsed, debatable statement on an internet forum I know much of it is farmland, but I was too tired/lazy to edit.

I think the thought that was in my head was what you pointed to in the second part of your post - Melbourne being less dense/sprawled but other big cities scattered across the state being much bigger.

I still don't mind urban sprawl if the infrastructure is there. Wyndham is the fastest-growing municipality in the country and in most areas we've got all our bases covered. Once the train line is extended, that is.

Although Point Cook is fucked.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

All correct above on why density is better. And it could be Melbourne replicating the mistakes of Sydney in the past. Almost all of what you hear in complaints about Sydney (from Sydney) in regards to crappy transport, services etc are directly related to the too-fast, too-much sprawl of the 70s, 80s, 90s. Nearly all the complaints will be coming from the 'burbs, particularly the outer suburbs that weren't there, in many cases, just 15 years ago. Certainly not 20-25yrs ago. You'll hear not a peep from anyone living within a 15-20km radius of the city, for whom public transport and all other services are generally fantastic.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

And then I remember that if I think the Melbourne market's bad, apparently Sydney's even worse. Yikes.

What would you expect to pay (per week) for an average two bed apartment in a decent (nice, lively) inner Melbourne suburb?

 

[Axver]

What would you expect to pay (per week) for an average two bed apartment in a decent (nice, lively) inner Melbourne suburb?

Well I thought $370 was a reasonable weekly expectation, but I'm starting to think I'll be ponying up $400+ after my next move.



Cobbler, I didn't miss your post - will reply tomorrow.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Well I thought $370 was a reasonable weekly expectation, but I'm starting to think I'll be ponying up $400+ after my next move.

That's not crazy different. In my old 'hood, for the $350-450 price range, you'd be looking at old two bed (those old 60s/70s build blocks of flats), newer one bed (90s build) or in the fancy pants new blocks, actually probably just a studio. I was paying just over $500 for a two bed (myself + GF) which was really 1.5 bed (couldn't have expected anyone to 'live' out of the second bedroom). It was a 70s build, but re-done inside, okay size and with city views (big thing) in a hugely desirable triangle of streets. We were really, really lucky too. The owner had something like 15 properties, and was more about long term stable tenants than short term minor (for him) financial gain, so our rent never changed over the three years we were there, when one or two bumps a year is pretty standard. For similar size and location, and an upgrade in quality, we'd be looking at $600+. But if/when we return to Sydney, we'll be looking at buying, and even just typing that puts a lump in my throat. Friend just dropped over $700K for a (nice - but not very large) two bed flat in that neighbourhood. It's mad - you can do better in London. London.

 

[blueeyedgirl]

That could have been me typing that. I've known quite a few people over the years who left Adelaide, for career, education, kicks, myself included, and we've all pretty much come home cos while it might be fun renting in a flash suburb and spending all your money on entertainment etc, it's a hell of a lot cheaper to live long term in Adelaide. And when we all wanted to buy property, prices in Melb/Syd had us all running screaming in the opposite direction. I've still got 2 friends in Acton though who are looking to buy soonish. I know he earns loads, I'd imagine he'd need to

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

And I'm the opposite. I like urban build up, hate suburban sprawl. Can't imagine anything worse than living in an outer suburb. Depressing even just to visit.

i think high rises are awesome, especially multi-use ones.

and yeah, axver's right as well.

i fucking hate urban sprawl. like axver said, what was prime farmland is now being gobbled up by greedy people who just have to have a house on some teeny tiny lot (seriously, does australia do what nz does too where it takes a lot and cram as many houses as possible onto it, leaving a bunch of pointless twisty-turny roads, long driveways that go up to a few houses, and very small yards just so you can live in the suburbs?) rather than just living in the city.

eh, ever since i was old enough to have an opinion on this i've pretty much hated suburb living. it doesn't help that i'm allergic to grass so the prospect of having some nicely manicured lawn sounds like hell to me rather than heaven. give me a concrete jungle any day, and i'll make sure to go to the park on a day when they're not mowing, or didn't mow earlier.

and jesus apartments are ridiculous in australia. i thought the cost of living was high here. i'm spoiled, turns out where i used to live is one of the best cities to live in (in the states anyway) in terms of bang for your buck. very cheap per square foot (or in your guys' case, metre ). you can get a one bedroom place in a nice building downtown for like $650 a month. though before you faint, keep in mind minimum wage is i think about half of what it is in australia, so there is that. to put things in perspective, the last job i had in the states, i made like $12-13 (forget which) an hour, and i was a supervisor.

this post is longer than i meant it to be. but yeah, sprawl sucks.