Bush commutes Libby's prison sentence

[anitram]

Our democracy is still the finest ever.

Do you actually know anything substantial about the other forms of democracy?

I absolutely prefer ours and I'll tell you why. When our Prime Minister sucks ass or is seen as a thug, we hold a no confidence vote and boot his ass out of office. Our elections last 5 weeks and not 3 years and are publicly funded so that we're not throwing out ridiculous amounts of money on stupidities. Our Supreme Court is not politicized like yours, and although certain justices certainly lean one way or another on issues, it is not polarized like the SCOTUS, which has frankly become a complete joke.

There are things wrong with it as well (a useless Senate is one), but overall I believe it's better.

If Bush was the PM, he'd have been gone eons ago.

 

[Slipstream]

k. sorry about the confusion.

i just don't want to make it seem that our president has dictative powers, because that is far from the truth. almost every power he has can be overruled in some way.

Sorry mate, but the President in this case has absolute power -

In the United States, the pardon power for Federal crimes is granted to the President by the United States Constitution, Article II, Section 2, which states that the President:

shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

The Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites and amnesties.[1] All federal pardon petitions are addressed to the President, who grants or denies the request.

Our democracy is still the finest ever. [/B]

Everyone can debate what they think is a better system. But since this thread is about Bush's power to pardon Libby and then rebutting to your statement that your democracy is the finest ever, it would only be fair to point out the US Electoral College.

 

[struckpx]

Sorry mate, but the President in this case has absolute power -

In the United States, the pardon power for Federal crimes is granted to the President by the United States Constitution, Article II, Section 2, which states that the President:

shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

The Supreme Court has interpreted this language to include the power to grant pardons, conditional pardons, commutations of sentence, conditional commutations of sentence, remissions of fines and forfeitures, respites and amnesties.[1] All federal pardon petitions are addressed to the President, who grants or denies the request.



Everyone can debate what they think is a better system. But since this thread is about Bush's power to pardon Libby and then rebutting to your statement that your democracy is the finest ever, it would only be fair to point out the US Electoral College.

Enough w/ the hate America on this forum. Jesus Christ.

 

[LMP]

I think the hate is directed towards those in power than the American system itself.

 

[BVS]

Where was the hate? They quoted the Constitution...

Are you drinking?

 

[anitram]

Enough w/ the hate America on this forum. Jesus Christ.

I'm beginning to believe that your reading comprehension is non-existent. There is really no other explanation for how you reached this conclusion based on the above post.

 

[Slipstream]

^^Precisely.

The topic of this thread is open for discussion and as far as I'm concerned, questioning the power of the President is open for debate. Why not?

I've certainly not demonstrated any hatred for the US...lol.

 

[struckpx]

Where was the hate? They quoted the Constitution...

Are you drinking?

that wasn't targeted towards that direct poster. i was going to say something but got so pissed off that i typed that and forgot to delete the quote. this forum is so anti-america though it is really bugging me. every thread i read is about how america is fucking the world some way, doing this bad or that bad. well, ya know, you give some you lose some. let's talk about the other million things that we do do that are good. like the billions of dollars we donate to africa regarding aids. yes it is not enough, but we give huge amounts of money that we aren't required too. what about the other stories, such as the north korean missile crisis which has been averted, diplomacy talks with china, vladimir putin recently visiting president bush and becoming better friends. what about these stories? instead you guys discuss a libby commutal?

please. there is more to this world than that. and i am just fed up w/ the anti-american sentiment in here. if it was israel, it would be acceptable, but we are not the devils. we do not wake up each day wanting to take over the world. president bush does not do that either. he is currently in a bad situation w/ people around him that have screwed him. he has been forced to make tough decisions which i am sure hurt him deeply.

i just hear complaining in the forum. can we at least have one thread that has a positive outlook on the world. everything seems to go negative. just an idea.

 

[LMP]

I do agree that having a poor cabinet does hurt the overall administration, but that's a given. Under what circumstances would you stop justifying Bush's actions and stop supporting him?

 

[BVS]

this forum is so anti-america though it is really bugging me.

Yeah, I've seen you call a few people in here anti-american already, none were justified.

I've seen you accuse people of being Saddam supporters, none were justified.

I've seen you call people idiots, none were justified.

So sorry if you think anything but your beliefs to be anti-america, but I love this country, I may not like some of it's leaders, I may not always like some of it's actions, but I love this country.

You should take a step back and really look at what you are accusing and attacking people in here of...

 

[struckpx]

Yeah, I've seen you call a few people in here anti-american already, none were justified.

I've seen you accuse people of being Saddam supporters, none were justified.

I've seen you call people idiots, none were justified.

So sorry if you think anything but your beliefs to be anti-america, but I love this country, I may not like some of it's leaders, I may not always like some of it's actions, but I love this country.

You should take a step back and really look at what you are accusing and attacking people in here of...

anything else.....you are on a role.

you continually degrade my comments, you debate every last one of them. do you blame me? you say your words rudely as well.

 

[yolland]

that wasn't targeted towards that direct poster. i was going to say something but got so pissed off that i typed that and forgot to delete the quote. this forum is so anti-america though it is really bugging me. every thread i read is about how america is fucking the world some way, doing this bad or that bad. well, ya know, you give some you lose some. let's talk about the other million things that we do do that are good. like the billions of dollars we donate to africa regarding aids. yes it is not enough, but we give huge amounts of money that we aren't required too. what about the other stories, such as the north korean missile crisis which has been averted, diplomacy talks with china, vladimir putin recently visiting president bush and becoming better friends. what about these stories? instead you guys discuss a libby commutal?

i just hear complaining in the forum. can we at least have one thread that has a positive outlook on the world. everything seems to go negative. just an idea.

FYM is first and foremost a social and political debating forum. There may be the odd thread now and then that's pretty much just a series of s for some celebrated humanitarian's achievement or the like, but for the most part you should always be prepared for critiques and challenges and contrary points of view. As long as it proceeds reasonably constructively and civilly, it's fair game. Also--as I just said to no one in particular in the Iraq thread, and it applies to others in this thread as well--if you're feeling this despairing and agitated about how a discussion is going, then it's probably time to step away from it.

 

[struckpx]

FYM is first and foremost a social and political debating forum. There may be the odd thread now and then that's pretty much just a series of s for some celebrated humanitarian's achievement or the like, but for the most part you should always be prepared for critiques and challenges and contrary points of view. As long as it proceeds reasonably constructively and civilly, it's fair game. Also--as I just said to no one in particular in the Iraq thread, and it applies to others in this thread as well--if you're feeling this despairing and agitated about how a discussion is going, then it's probably time to step away from it.

I am not frustrated. I am fed up w/ the way that some members on this forum treat others. This has been the most hostile group I have ever been around in an online community.

 

[Irvine511]

I am not frustrated. I am fed up w/ the way that some members on this forum treat others. This has been the most hostile group I have ever been around in an online community.

you might want to ask yourself exactly why your posts are engendering such hostility.

critiques of individual posts are one thing, but a critique of the forum is quite something different. FYM waxes and wanes in quality, but at it's best, you'll be hard pressed to find a better debating -- and we debate in here -- forum, at least on a website about a rock group. there are some very, very intelligent posters in here, many of whom are highly educated, some of whom i suspect might be akin to prodigies in their respective fields and all of whom i'd be quite happy to meet in real life so i could meet the people behind the minds. you will find all viewpoints represented, especially if you dig back a ways into the FYM archive. some of our best posters would probably refer to themselves as conservative christians. we have muslims, jews, atheists, agnostics, north americans, europeans, australians, kiwis, whites, blacks, asians, straights, gays, single mothers, anarchists, left-wing christians ... you name it, you can find it in here.

the current "anti-americanism" you're referring to is more a product of the current state of the world. America has never been held in such low esteem around the world. this is not a viewpoint, it is a fact. there is open contempt for President Bush around the world, in the US, and even within the Republican party. you are free to defend him. but you are also free to be challenged, and if you're going to make an argument, you better be well prepared to defend it with logic, reason, and citations (something that's particularly cool about internet debating).

i would suggest you take a deep breath and respond to the argument at hand.

it's never personal. unless you make it personal.

 

[phillyfan26]

you are free to defend him. but you are also free to be challenged, and if you're going to make an argument, you better be well prepared to defend it with logic, reason, and citations (something that's particularly cool about internet debating).

i would suggest you take a deep breath and respond to the argument at hand.

it's never personal. unless you make it personal.

Excellent post.

 

[struckpx]

you might want to ask yourself exactly why your posts are engendering such hostility.

critiques of individual posts are one thing, but a critique of the forum is quite something different. FYM waxes and wanes in quality, but at it's best, you'll be hard pressed to find a better debating -- and we debate in here -- forum, at least on a website about a rock group. there are some very, very intelligent posters in here, many of whom are highly educated, some of whom i suspect might be akin to prodigies in their respective fields and all of whom i'd be quite happy to meet in real life so i could meet the people behind the minds. you will find all viewpoints represented, especially if you dig back a ways into the FYM archive. some of our best posters would probably refer to themselves as conservative christians. we have muslims, jews, atheists, agnostics, north americans, europeans, australians, kiwis, whites, blacks, asians, straights, gays, single mothers, anarchists, left-wing christians ... you name it, you can find it in here.

the current "anti-americanism" you're referring to is more a product of the current state of the world. America has never been held in such low esteem around the world. this is not a viewpoint, it is a fact. there is open contempt for President Bush around the world, in the US, and even within the Republican party. you are free to defend him. but you are also free to be challenged, and if you're going to make an argument, you better be well prepared to defend it with logic, reason, and citations (something that's particularly cool about internet debating).

i would suggest you take a deep breath and respond to the argument at hand.

it's never personal. unless you make it personal.

it's not personal, but the other side comments that have been coming w/ the responses to me are. i.e. age. whatever, they aren't taken seriously either way, so it's not worth bitching about.

 

[phillyfan26]

it's not personal, but the other side comments that have been coming w/ the responses to me are. i.e. age. whatever, they aren't taken seriously either way, so it's not worth bitching about.

Because you don't back them up!

 

[struckpx]

Because you don't back them up!

i don't want to get into this. i just won't post here anymore. that is what everyone wants as well, so, i won't post in here, or try only on subjects that really anger me. the petty ones i will leave for others to discuss.

 

[phillyfan26]

i don't want to get into this. i just won't post here anymore. that is what everyone wants as well, so, i won't post in here, or try only on subjects that really anger me. the petty ones i will leave for others to discuss.

Yes, because government conspiracy is "petty" .

 

[Lila64]

you might want to ask yourself exactly why your posts are engendering such hostility.

critiques of individual posts are one thing, but a critique of the forum is quite something different. FYM waxes and wanes in quality, but at it's best, you'll be hard pressed to find a better debating -- and we debate in here -- forum, at least on a website about a rock group. there are some very, very intelligent posters in here, many of whom are highly educated, some of whom i suspect might be akin to prodigies in their respective fields and all of whom i'd be quite happy to meet in real life so i could meet the people behind the minds. you will find all viewpoints represented, especially if you dig back a ways into the FYM archive. some of our best posters would probably refer to themselves as conservative christians. we have muslims, jews, atheists, agnostics, north americans, europeans, australians, kiwis, whites, blacks, asians, straights, gays, single mothers, anarchists, left-wing christians ... you name it, you can find it in here.

the current "anti-americanism" you're referring to is more a product of the current state of the world. America has never been held in such low esteem around the world. this is not a viewpoint, it is a fact. there is open contempt for President Bush around the world, in the US, and even within the Republican party. you are free to defend him. but you are also free to be challenged, and if you're going to make an argument, you better be well prepared to defend it with logic, reason, and citations (something that's particularly cool about internet debating).

i would suggest you take a deep breath and respond to the argument at hand.

it's never personal. unless you make it personal.

 

[struckpx]

no, there are bigger problems worth arguing than some stupid scooter libby who is the middle man commutal.

 

[phillyfan26]

no, there are bigger problems worth arguing than some stupid scooter libby who is the middle man commutal.

It's not about Libby you know.

 

[struckpx]

It's not about Libby you know.

yes, the commutal is about libby. that is what we know. we cannot come to any other conclusions currently.

 

[Irvine511]

no, there are bigger problems worth arguing than some stupid scooter libby who is the middle man commutal.

then stick to the threads that interest you.

there are many, many threads in here. it's really not anyone's place to criticize the simple existence of a thread.

i'd encourage you to keep posting, it would be a great opportunity to work on debating skills and essay writing skills, and it will force you to research a topic.

heaven knows i've done some crash research on various threads where i've shot my mouth off, and then been called on it, and had to scramble to get some facts to back me up. it's a good exercise.

 

[CTU2fan]

it's so good to discover that Bush, our Christian President, has finally discovered mercy and compassion!

he didn't have any as governor of Texas:

[q]In the weeks before the execution, Bush says, a number of protesters came to Austin to demand clemency for Karla Faye Tucker. "Did you meet with any of them?" I ask. Bush whips around and stares at me. "No, I didn't meet with any of them", he snaps, as though I've just asked the dumbest, most offensive question ever posed. "I didn't meet with Larry King either when he came down for it. I watched his interview with Tucker, though. He asked her real difficult questions like, 'What would you say to Governor Bush?'" "What was her answer?" I wonder. "'Please,'" Bush whimpers, his lips pursed in mock desperation, "'don't kill me.'" I must look shocked — ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel — because he immediately stops smirking.[/q]

Guess she should have gotten some dirt on Cheney huh?

 

[phillyfan26]

yes, the commutal is about libby. that is what we know. we cannot come to any other conclusions currently.

There's plenty of evidence, which has been cited in this thread by unico, pointing to a government conspiracy to keep Cheney out of it. We can ABSOLUTELY draw conclusions about the government's involvement.

 

[struckpx]

There's plenty of evidence, which has been cited in this thread by unico, pointing to a government conspiracy to keep Cheney out of it. We can ABSOLUTELY draw conclusions about the government's involvement.

you cannot come to any conclusions yet. if you have, you are being judgemental, and any court of law would throw you out if you were a juror. you need to rationalize and see that not both sides of the case have been addressed currently, just one side has been feeding information, most of which I assume is false and directed to protect that one's sides interests as it should.

it's just wrong to accuse the administration yet, no matter what your beliefs are towards them. we are a civilized society, and until proven guilty should be assumed innocent. i don't care about the commutal, etc., there will be other opportunities if cheney is involved in this.

 

[phillyfan26]

you cannot come to any conclusions yet. if you have, you are being judgemental, and any court of law would throw you out if you were a juror. you need to rationalize and see that not both sides of the case have been addressed currently, just one side has been feeding information, most of which I assume is false and directed to protect that one's sides interests as it should.

it's just wrong to accuse the administration yet, no matter what your beliefs are towards them. we are a civilized society, and until proven guilty should be assumed innocent. i don't care about the commutal, etc., there will be other opportunities if cheney is involved in this.

What does me being a juror have anything to do with this? That's completely irrelevant.

But, I've heard the arguments in defense of the administration, all of them, in this thread. They're pathetic. They stray from the topic, for the most part, and are based on no fact.

The evidence I've seen makes accusing the administration not only right, but necessary.

 

[redhotswami]

fitzgerald has already stated that the administration was involved. they are clearly implicated in this case. i would think that the special prosecutor would have a much better understanding of his evidence collected. i'm only going off of what he has said. the only reason he can't outright say "cheney did it!" is because Libby is lying and refusing to answer certain questions.

 

[struckpx]

What does me being a juror have anything to do with this? That's completely irrelevant.

But, I've heard the arguments in defense of the administration, all of them, in this thread. They're pathetic. They stray from the topic, for the most part, and are based on no fact.

The evidence I've seen makes accusing the administration not only right, but necessary.

if you want to falsely accuse them, be my guest. i won't be apart of it.