Mad Men II: A Man For All Seasons
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joyfulgirl
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Peggy. 
PhilsFan
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Pardon my understanding of inflation, but Peggy is about to make bank, right?
$19,000 in 1967 is roughly $131,000 in 2012...so yes.
GirlsAloudFan
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Holy fucking shit.
GirlsAloudFan
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Holy fucking shit.
The Kinks guitar riff kicking in right on cue with Peggy's smile is just an absolutely unforgettable moment. Stunning. Everything about those last couple of minutes: the talk with Don, Joan's look. Wow. I cannot believe that shit just went down. Peggy Olson! The hand kiss!
And, yeah, the fact that all of that happened after the brutal scenario with Joan? God damn. I mean, that sequence with Joan and the sleazy Jaguar guy intercut with Don's speech...damn. Only to find later that Don's visit was too late. My goodness.
That was some fucking serious stomach-punch television. What a show. And all the shit Lane was pulling? And that shot of him almost disappearing into Roger's crazy polka dot painting? Wow. What the fuck happens now? I need a cigarette.
The Kinks guitar riff kicking in right on cue with Peggy's smile is just an absolutely unforgettable moment. Stunning. Everything about those last couple of minutes: the talk with Don, Joan's look. Wow. I cannot believe that shit just went down. Peggy Olson! The hand kiss!
And, yeah, the fact that all of that happened after the brutal scenario with Joan? God damn. I mean, that sequence with Joan and the sleazy Jaguar guy intercut with Don's speech...damn. Only to find later that Don's visit was too late. My goodness.
That was some fucking serious stomach-punch television. What a show. And all the shit Lane was pulling? And that shot of him almost disappearing into Roger's crazy polka dot painting? Wow. What the fuck happens now? I need a cigarette.
joyfulgirl
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It was fantastic.
I wonder if she would have entertained a counteroffer if Don hadn't mentioned Joan getting partnership.
MrsSpringsteen
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Absolutely great episode, pure genius
I really think I died for a couple of minutes during that hand kiss. Best Don Draper moment evah I need to have a gif of that one.
I really think I died for a couple of minutes during that hand kiss. Best Don Draper moment evah
I need to have a gif of that one.
corianderstem
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Are there just 2 more episodes?
MrsSpringsteen
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joyfulgirl
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Not last night. I think not at all, actually.
deep
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I was going to respond to Sean on that.
I felt that way after watching the first four seasons over, a few weeks back.
(I got all the dvds for free from my local library, also got to check out the new Springsteen cd, and I have the new Jack White on hold, should have it in couple of weeks, great library system for cheap bastards, like me)
anyways, in previous seasons Pete really fell on his sword for Don, when he lied for him and said they lost that big defense account, when he canceled it because could not get security clearance. All of Don's cheating on Betty. By all measures she was a decent wife, if he would only give her a little more. You may recall how well things went on the Paris trip.
Pete treated his own phoney family much better than Don treated his own half brother. Don leaving the house to sleep with Sally's teacher was an all time low, and even bringing her to his house, showed a callus disregard for Betty and his children.
At this point, I do believe it is pointless to argue their respective decencies.
So about last night. Yes, last week he did seem to care about Joan, he took her out for a drive and a few drinks when she was down. I did note that.
He also left her at the bar and suggested that she let some random guy that was giving her the eye, take her home.
I don't really think there are any truly decent men on Madmen, except for Ken Cosgrove, I believe he is the only man that has not cheated on his wife, and seems to have a decent marriage, he also has been supportive of Peggy, even thought she does not seem to care that much.
I felt that way after watching the first four seasons over, a few weeks back.
(I got all the dvds for free from my local library, also got to check out the new Springsteen cd, and I have the new Jack White on hold, should have it in couple of weeks, great library system for cheap bastards, like me)
anyways, in previous seasons Pete really fell on his sword for Don, when he lied for him and said they lost that big defense account, when he canceled it because could not get security clearance. All of Don's cheating on Betty. By all measures she was a decent wife, if he would only give her a little more. You may recall how well things went on the Paris trip.
Pete treated his own phoney family much better than Don treated his own half brother. Don leaving the house to sleep with Sally's teacher was an all time low, and even bringing her to his house, showed a callus disregard for Betty and his children.
At this point, I do believe it is pointless to argue their respective decencies.
So about last night. Yes, last week he did seem to care about Joan, he took her out for a drive and a few drinks when she was down. I did note that.
He also left her at the bar and suggested that she let some random guy that was giving her the eye, take her home.
I don't really think there are any truly decent men on Madmen, except for Ken Cosgrove, I believe he is the only man that has not cheated on his wife, and seems to have a decent marriage, he also has been supportive of Peggy, even thought she does not seem to care that much.
deep
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I sure hope not. Ted has treated her much better in his short time, than all those awful moments she has had to put up with Don's insults and slights. Anything she did good Don took ownership of, even last night before she told him, he took credit for her career.
Staying there was poisoning her soul.
How many random hand jobs would she have to give before she slit her wrists.
Irvine511
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the hand kissing was a nice echo of last season's classic "the suitcase" when she reached over and grabbed his hand. it's nice that it's never, ever romantic between these two. they're not equals, not yet, but there's respect and admiration and he's rougher on her than the rest because she really his his "work daughter."
the Joan thing seemed a bit of a stretch for me, honestly, at least as credulity is concerned. but maybe i'm totally naive here.
the Joan thing seemed a bit of a stretch for me, honestly, at least as credulity is concerned. but maybe i'm totally naive here.
LemonMelon
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Really, the most heartbreaking moment of the entire episode (of which there were legion), was Don's face when he realized it was over.
I mean, my God, that was incredible acting. His voice got just a touch froggy, he started speeding up his delivery just so, and then the hand kiss. Perfect. And as much of a bitch as I felt Peggy was, especially with the smirk tacked on the end, I can't deny that her character had little to no room to grow at SCDP. It was a necessary move.
I'd rather not talk about what happened to Joan. Seemed like a horrible nightmare that grew progressively more horrible. I can't decide if it was absurd or realistic in the extreme. As Irvine said, I may just be naive.
I was hoping this phrase would catch on.
I mean, my God, that was incredible acting. His voice got just a touch froggy, he started speeding up his delivery just so, and then the hand kiss. Perfect. And as much of a bitch as I felt Peggy was, especially with the smirk tacked on the end, I can't deny that her character had little to no room to grow at SCDP. It was a necessary move.
I'd rather not talk about what happened to Joan. Seemed like a horrible nightmare that grew progressively more horrible. I can't decide if it was absurd or realistic in the extreme. As Irvine said, I may just be naive.
I was hoping this phrase would catch on.
corianderstem
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Jon Hamm really is pretty amazing. The range of emotions he went through - just perfection.
And the episode where Don had the flu - I'm sure make-up and lighting had a good deal to do with it, but I believed the guy felt like death.
And the episode where Don had the flu - I'm sure make-up and lighting had a good deal to do with it, but I believed the guy felt like death.
LemonMelon
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Jon Hamm's incredulous expression involves a huge fucking vein protruding from his forehead.
So, Betty apparently died in a fat-related accident.
So, Betty apparently died in a fat-related accident.
deep
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yes,
I am going to give it a re-watch
I have several issues with it, I could list four or five things
I liked the Peggy story line and am happy she is getting more what she deserves and out of an unhealthy environment, I see no reason why her story line can not continue on the show
the Don/ Megan part was ok too and is building on how that is continuing to evolve.
deep
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i keep hearing that someone is supposed to die this season,
well, here is a long shot speculation.
I can see Ken Crossgrow leaving, he told Peggy that the Jaguar account was not happening, he saw the Joan pimping as a deal breaker, he also told Peggy he would leave with her.
So I can see him carrying a box of his stuff out, and when the elevator door opens he steps into the empty shaft.
well, here is a long shot speculation.
I can see Ken Crossgrow leaving, he told Peggy that the Jaguar account was not happening, he saw the Joan pimping as a deal breaker, he also told Peggy he would leave with her.
So I can see him carrying a box of his stuff out, and when the elevator door opens he steps into the empty shaft.
LemonMelon
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Lane will kill himself, probably. Too much guilt, and he's pretty lonely.
joyfulgirl
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What? How was Peggy a bitch?
elevated_u2_fan
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Cus she hurt poor Don's feelings!!1
bollox
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Fixed. The Kinks as her walkoff music was icing on the cake.
Also, the look that she and Joan exchange as she quietly exits amidst the celebration was so powerful. Totally agree that the whole cast is really great at conveying so much through facial expressions.
joyfulgirl
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MrsSpringsteen
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What was Don for throwing money in her face? Out of all his bad moments that might have been his worst.
The smirk on Peggy's face had zero to do with being a "bitch", it had to do with how far she's come and how far she's going to go. On her own merits.
Yes, to me Don and Peggy is a father/daughter type of relationship- and that's why she's actually hurt by what he does. The not crying part of the money incident was her turning point, I think.
The smirk on Peggy's face had zero to do with being a "bitch", it had to do with how far she's come and how far she's going to go. On her own merits.
Yes, to me Don and Peggy is a father/daughter type of relationship- and that's why she's actually hurt by what he does. The not crying part of the money incident was her turning point, I think.
Irvine511
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Peggy did betray Ken Cosgeove, though. Didn't they have a pact?
I think the look between Peggy and Joan was both respect and envy, about Joan caught in one time period and Peggy in another. Joan could easily do Lane's job, probably better, but she literally had to sleep her way into becoming a partner. Peggy is at least leaving with that part of herself intact, and on her own merits. The difference is that she's been given the opportunity to rise on merit whereas Joan hasn't been afforded the same (remember when she wanted to read scripts and Harry wouldn't let her?)
Thinking more and more, I'm almost as bothered by Joan's prostitution as I was by, say, Adrianna's murder at the end of the 5th season of The Sopranos.
Obviously, no, not the same, but I feel a similar sense of despairing.
I think the look between Peggy and Joan was both respect and envy, about Joan caught in one time period and Peggy in another. Joan could easily do Lane's job, probably better, but she literally had to sleep her way into becoming a partner. Peggy is at least leaving with that part of herself intact, and on her own merits. The difference is that she's been given the opportunity to rise on merit whereas Joan hasn't been afforded the same (remember when she wanted to read scripts and Harry wouldn't let her?)
Thinking more and more, I'm almost as bothered by Joan's prostitution as I was by, say, Adrianna's murder at the end of the 5th season of The Sopranos.
Obviously, no, not the same, but I feel a similar sense of despairing.
MrsSpringsteen
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True, and I think the obvious reason is Joan's incredible attractiveness and sex appeal. And that's just sad, because she has the brains and the guts and the toughness to match or outmatch any of those guys.
It makes it doubly sad that she sold herself out like that. I have to believe that somehow she will win in the end, even though of course she can never undo what she did with that slimeball. And Pete Campbell was a more than willing "pimp", have to believe that foreshadows something.
elevated_u2_fan
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Well one thing that keeps being revisited: as interesting and as complex a character as he is, Pete really is an awful human being...
LemonMelon
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Irvine511 said:
Yeah, really bizarre what happened there, since she seemed to respect Ken for keeping the pact in mind and then spat on it.
Also, that was quite a mood change at the end, remorse to smirking badassery. Was her reaction to the hand kiss genuine or a put on?
Irvine511
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I thought she felt badly at the time, but Peggy likes money and power as much as any of the men, and this is a triumph for her. And Don had been rising her all season, so screw him, in the end.
And she was threatened by the rise of Ginsberg as well.
And she was threatened by the rise of Ginsberg as well.
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